US seller ships bootleg dvd box set, but doesn't want to pay shipping return.

[fh991586]

Hello there,

First time that I received a bootleg item unknowingly.  The item was listed "As new", and the US seller has more than 4000 good feedback with a 100% rate.  He claims he didn't notice the image compression when he screened some of the dvds, nor the lower print quality of packaging on the box & each dvd cases (moiré pattern, letters with a light blurred outline instead of clean sharp print, etc.).  I have some dvds from this serie to use as proof to compare both items, and I have enough printing experience & knowledge on dvd/cd to spot a fraudulent production.

I believe the seller when he tells me he didn't know that it's a bootleg, and he states that he bought it from somebody else on eBay.  But he doesn't seem to want to refund me the return shipping for the item if I send it back (his terms on page states buyer is responsible for return shipping).  I clearly would not have bought it if I had known this was not an official release, so I don't think I should lose money over this transaction.

The case has not been escalated trhough eBay yet, since I only exchange message through the "question to seller" formula in My Ebay.  I'm waiting for his final decision over complete refund + return shipping...

My question is: what are my options now?  I've never had to deal with such a bad experience before!

[I enclosed an image example of the boxset]

[gullerud]

"

If a buyer is sent wrong / broken item, it is not "the decent thing for them to do" in paying return shipping. That is on the seller.

The buyer should not be out of pocket for any seller mistakes. Period."

But I never made a  mistake.  No bootleg =  no mistake.

[crownking382404]

eBay Justice:

There are no robots that decide what is honorable.  This isn't complicated and obviously the seller is simply just old-fashioned honest and any rules or cold justice are like politics---just a smoked screen.  There are always Open Answers where hard-fast rules don't apply in some cases.  eBay has carved their reputation and Gullerud has as well and shall always remain 'IN GOOD STANDING/IN GOOD FAITH.'  This seller has top-notch integrity and is about as professional (in business) as we can be these days with all the electronic chaos swirling around us. 

I'm not getting involved in this thread in the future however, I feel the weight of responsibility as a business person myself, to contribute my many most positive experiences (not only as a buyer and seller) with Gullerud who remains to this day---IN GOOD STANDING.

We all know what is right in this case (even the person who is the purchaser) and if a buyer isn't happy with a commercial product then they MUST PAY FOR THEIR RETURN to have their refund honored.  (good business sense)  There are exceptions to every rule however in this case it's really rather simple, the seller has been reasonable and even nice through it all and is patiently waiting to refund the monies after the buyer sends back said material since he feels it doesn't suit HIS NEEDS.

And yes, we all need to keep being productive and move on.  Thank you for trying to understand all angles.  I'm trying, as well!

[fh991586]

I could bring the boxset to an independand entity for expertise, but I don't know where to find one.  The local police, maybe?  And now I'm afraid if I take a picture with a real one in the store, you will accuse me of doctoring the image anyway...

I will gladly destroy the **bleep** thing if I get my money back, and post a picture of broken dvds and torn packages!

[fh991586]

How can you judge if the item is as advertised or a counterfeit right now? You just can't. Therefore, your declared business relation with the seller is just biaising your opinion.

[mater721]

"We all know what is right in this case (even the person who is the purchaser) and if a buyer isn't happy with a commercial product then they MUST PAY FOR THEIR RETURN to have their refund honored.  (good business sense) "

No.

A "good business sense" is to not make your buyers out-of-pocket when a transaction is bad and not the fault of the buyer.

A guarantee does not = buyer losing money.

""This seller has top-notch integrity and is about as professional (in business) as we can be these days with all the electronic chaos swirling around us.

Not sure how you consider it "professional" to call people "children" (repeatedly).

"This isn't complicated and obviously the seller is simply just old-fashioned honest and any rules or cold justice are like politics---just a smoked screen."

How do you know this?

I don't pretend to know any of the facts of this case.  Why do you?

[00nevermind00]

---

@gullerud wrote:

LOL  gullerud_art     petergullerud   and  I can't even remember the rest..  is this the best you people  can do? Pick on someone who has changed  his ID  name  for the past 16 years?  How do you  baby  detectives  even find out this  ridiculous  and yes  CHILDISH stuff?

I have the right to change  the name as  I  see fit with selling my art. 

Anyone  fresh  walking into this silly thread can see who the  unprofessional  ones are here -  70  or no 70. GROW UP.

Am I dealing with children?  No I am dealing with people who act like they are in Mayberry RFD on a partyline gossip phone.

Thanks  for the invite "pierre"   and  I am always  polite to my customers..  just ask  Francis.. even to the point of answering ALL  his  tiring and now I see  baiting emails. 

Ps..  Francis..   my pirate radio station is a   hobby .. not in your words  "an occupation". 

I  defend myself when I  am surrounded  by knee jerk  judgmental  wolves.   I don't have to  be so clear  when  I am dealing with gentlemen .. which apparently none  of you are.

---

I don't want to get involved in this he-said-she-said type argument, but do you have ANY idea how badly this post makes you look to anyone who happens to read this thread? This incoherent rant alone makes me feel like siding with the buyer, and god only knows what was taken out of your post that was edited by the mod.

Hurling insults on message boards says nothing about the object of your scorn. It does, however, say a lot about you.

[afantiques]

Well one good thing, this thread made me wonder why I had never watched Ally McBeal, so I downloaded the whole series and watched a few episodes.

It's just  not all that good.

[mater721]

LMAO!

Was having a "meh" day at work (besides being Monday).  Just got a little bit brighter.

[mater721]

"But I never made a  mistake.  No bootleg =  no mistake."

Nothing in any of my posts indicated you actually sold a bootleg item. I don't have the facts.

I was disagreeing with a poster who indicated a sellers Terms & Conditions supersede ebays terms.
They don't.

My posts were all concerned with policy.
Returns for bad items should be paid for by seller if seller is at fault.
That's it.

I only started responding to your posts when you ratcheted up the rhetoric and insults.

[pierrelebel]

""But I never made a  mistake.  No bootleg =  no mistake.""

That is centre of the argument.

If the set is genuine then there is no problem.

However, if the set of not genuine, it means the seller unknowingly was sold a bootleg item a year ago and resold the item again not knowing it was not the genuine thing. 

If that is the case (and nobody here knows if it is) then the consensus here is that eBay's policy requires the seller to refund the buyer in full (including shipping). The business principle in play here is that a buyer should not be out-of-pocket if the item is not as described (genuine)

Somehow the seller seems to refuse to follow eBay's policy should the set eventually prove to not be genuine.

There would have been no discussion if the seller had stated: "I know the set is genuine but I am willing to provide full refund, including shipping, should it be demonstrated that it is a fake."

Oh well, life does go on.  Que sera... sera

[gullerud]

"There would have been no discussion if the seller had stated: "I know the set is genuine but I am willing to provide full refund, including shipping, should it be demonstrated that it is a fake." "

I agree .. and he failed  at  this ..  but alas,  the whiny  children here  win.  Ebay  is forcing me to  pay him  for  his  $28  freebie.  I'm sure you'll all enjoy this when all you can do is attack my integrity when I am simply  telling you again and again.. LOOK AT THE PICTURES.

And  no,   boys and girls, no moderator had to censor me..  Francis  said  he will destroy the  discs....  he swore.  I didn't.

OK  kids..  back to work!   😉

[fh991586]

I got news from eBay, but I had to check into "My eBay" to see it (no email sent)...

You need to return this item

We reviewed your case, and you can return the item for a refund

Instructions:
1. Ship the item to the seller by August 24
2. Add tracking details within 7 days of shipping the item. We'll send a refund when tracking shows the item is delivered..

But there is no mention as who will pay the return shipping in the end, and I don't see any way I can ask clarification to eBay about that... It is kind of deceiving.  😕

[gullerud]

Francis..  I'll   refund the  $28 ..  I will do this  through the   resolution center when I  have the funds.. you dont have to ship it..  enjoy Porsche and all those pretty  lawyer ladies to your hearts content..  or  destroy them  ..  if I were  you, I'd keep them..  like I said ..  they play  perfectly ..  or you can save it as  a Christmas gift

.. it's all in your favor. 

[fh991586]

I forgot to specify that I would destroy it if I didn't have to send it back, after getting my money back. Because if it's a counterfeit item, you can't sell it again anyway! It's illegal even to mail it...

You really are the only one who called out names out here, while I just wanted not to lose money on this. You think I enjoy all this? I should have simply left negative feedback right away, but I wanted to give you a chance to redeem yourself... Big mistake for me.

[fh991586]

I won't settle for $28, because it cost me more to get it! What didn't you understand since the beginning?

You didn't send what I bid on, period. So I'm not supposed to lose one cent on this. I already lost time & patience over your negation of this case...

[kh-leslie]

Hi everyone,

Please remember to keep the discussions friendly and welcoming for everyone. Continuing with name calling, cursing and interpersonal disputes will result in the thread being locked.

Please take a moment to review our Community Guidelines.

Thank you for your assistance in keeping the forums friendly!

[pierrelebel]

"and I don't see any way I can ask clarification to eBay about that.."

There is nothing to be gained at this point by posting on this board.  I suggest you contact eBay by phone.  Get all the information in front of you before you call. To reach eBay. click on the "Help & Contact" link on top of this page.

The seller has already agreed to refund you once he has funds in his PayPal account.  And you will not have to return the item.

My understanding is that eBay will generally refund the full amount of purchase (item plus shipping) under its policy.

If I were you I would wait a few days to contact eBay.  You may have received payment from the seller in the meantime.  Looking at his recent sales on eBay it will be a matter of days before money comes into his PayPal account.  There is no reason at this point not to trust the seller's word.  Patience.

[pierrelebel]

In addition, as stated earlier, do not mention "feedback" nor post any at this time.

Let the problem be solved first.  Solution and refund have to be the priority for all involved.

[thinkultra]

If I brought an Ally McBeal DVD to my local police and asked them to verify it.... 

They would  not be amused..... there are real problems for the police to handle 

Also the listing said the soundtrack wasn't included, then after you purchased he even offered to send it to you if he located it. 

If you're not happy with what he is offering ship the item back as eBay requested.  

[pierrelebel]

You may want to take a look at this thread later on today:

http://community.ebay.ca/t5/Weekly-Board-Hour-Session/August-19th-2015-Weekly-board-Hour/m-p/310749#...