Well, I got my first neg...

[mirakbiz_inc]

What really upsets me is that I don't think I deserved it. Item was shipped super fast and I never heard back from the buyer (newbie)...

Last week as part of my routine cleanup, I sent an email to all my buyers that didn't left feedback, reminding them to please do so.

This newbie (0 feedback then) bought a remote control from me awhile back (original purchase was in January) and then he just leaves a neg saying "Item didn't work" (I sell many of these, never had a problem, but it could have been defective or just damaged in transit).
He never mentioned anything about the item not working, I could have exchanged the item or even offered a refund, all he needed to do was let me know.

I immediately placed a reply to his neg, and since I left positive to him after the item was shipped, I left a follow-up comment too.
Sorry, just venting here..

I work really hard to make sure my buyers have a good experience, and guys like this make me mad...

;-)

[your-chic-shopper]

Well , I reviewed this

My comment would be this ....If you would have held off on Fedback till the item arrived to the cusotmer and they left feedback . You would be in a position of getting it removed

My best comment and learning lesson would be from this . Do not leave feedbck till the customer does . The reason I say this is then you would be in a position to leave feedback that reflects no contact . You could also be able to contact the buyer and ask if they would like there feedback removed and yours . That you are willing to work the situation out

Todd

[mirakbiz_inc]

I always believed that leaving feedback after I completed my side of the transaction was a good idea, since I really push the envelope to make things right. I am the kind of guy that will do almost anything to help the buyer...

This may be an eye opener, I may be changing my automated feedback to post after the customer leaves theirs. Not necessarily as a retaliatory measure (if I deserve a neg, I'll take it) but to give me some leverage against nonsense buyers and their feedback ...

[amberwoodottawa]

Sorry about your first. It hurts the most. I dont think anyone that I know participating on the Cdn PS board would ever be deserving of receiving a negative feedback. I am certain that each of us will go the extra mile to please the customer although there are limits.

Unfortunately there are too many whackos out there and eBay has their share of them as buyers and as sellers.

I had always left FB as soon as the customer paid me as well. I have since changed.

Now if I have any suspicions about a transaction, in particular with a buyer who sends lots of emails and I sense a potetial problem, I hold back from leaving FB until they do.

Newbies are not the exception here. I got a neg yesterday from someone with a 100% positive FB rating with a rating of 43. However as I reviewed his FBs I noted they were all for small $ items and he either never left any FB in return or left the sellers negative FB.

His MO is to send an email to the seller when he gets the purchased item and tell them how nice it is and how pleased he was with the communication etc (thats what I received) and in the same email asks he seller to leave him positive FB right away.

In my case I was away on vacation and didnt leave him positive FB. He negd me so I had the opportunity to neg him in return.

He never sent me any emails complaining about the product, about the delivery or any complaints at all although he filed a Square Trade action 24 hours before he negd me.

The negative I left him will hurt him far more than the one he left me as he told me that he was trying to build his reputation up to be a seller by getting positive FBs (hence the small $ purchases). He has now gone from 100% positive to 97.5%.

I am also now certain other sellers will hold off giving out their positives so quickly to him and he may find himself getting a few more negs in return.

Further he spammed me yesterday (I blocked his emails after receiving 162 spammed emails) with questionable language and threats about reporting him to eBay will result in my being kicked off of eBay etc.

The spamming and his language proves to me how much my neg has hurt him and will cause him problems in his scheming and taking advantage of other sellers.

So it will now be up to eBay to deal with this buyer or eBay can find a new Seller to replace me.

Do I want to have this 3rd neg on my file? Hell no however I would sooner keep this neg and make his life difficult from scamming others than to give him any satisfaction or reward from getting to me.

Malcolm

[llee2]

I too used to always leave positive feedback upon receipt of payment. I still do for the most part, but I check a few things first.

I usually don't leave positive feedback first if:

-the buyer has zero or low feedback score
-the buyer doesn't regularly leave feedback for others (click the "left for others" tab)
-has excessive negs that are seemingly deserved
-leaves negs for others that are seemingly undeserved or for those who have already left a positive

Furthermore, I mention that "feedback is usually left upon receipt of payment, but during peak times I may be concentrating on getting all orders out in a timely manner. If I've forgotten to leave you feedback, just leave yours upon receipt and I'll always return the favour."

I know it works both ways - some buyers won't leave pos feedback for sellers who haven't left them one first for paying promptly, but this lil' schpeel seems to work. I've gotten many positives left for me from buyers which I didn't leave one first. Of course, keep your word and return the positive and keep everyone happy.

The are way too many scammers and extortionists out there today to blindly leave positives for all buyers without checking first.

[gloriaguides]

Another thing is that maybe asking for feedback isn't such a good idea. Many will leave it, some will not. Some may not have been as happy as they thought they would be when they received the item. I figure if I got the money so what if I don't get feedback (of course, my numbers are big enough that it's not an issue really). When a transaction is done from my end, I never email my buyers unless they email me first. There are wackos around and you're bound to encounter them occasionally. I do my absolute best for the buyers, but some there is no reasoning with. I wear my scars proudly--they also indicate that while i am a good seller, there are limits to how far I am willing to bend over or be pushed around. $10 is my maximum price (amount I will refund over "problem with item"). Most of my negs have been from NPBs and impatient video-game buying newbies after the item has been mailed and before they receive it. What can ya do? The negs show you're human. COngratulations on your first! Gloria

[systemagic]

I always leave positive feedback upon receiving payment too because, no matter what the level of decency, or even sanity, of the buyer they have completely fulfilled their legal obligation when they pay for the item. I have no respect for retaliation and I don't want it to be possible to enter my way of thinking. I've left many negs for NPBs and have yet to receive a retaliatory neg from them. This could be because by the time they receive their neg I've politely explained my position to them many times. To be candid, while pragmatic, negging someone who has negged me in order to negotiate removal of the negs looks to me like a form of feedback extortion.

I never solicit people for positive feedback either and I'm guessing that I've gotten less than one third of the feedbacks relative to actual concluded auctions. While I enjoy reading every positive feedback this, along with a different coloured star, doesn't seem to be enough to motivate me to pursue increasing the number.

[your-chic-shopper]

systemagic

I would have to think your not doing the volume of sales in order to get the nut bars out there on Ebay. I sure get them

Quote

"To be candid, while pragmatic, negging someone who has negged me in order to negotiate removal of the negs looks to me like a form of feedback extortion"

Under Ebays rules it's not . Ebay encourages the buyer and the seller to work the situation out . They made the rule of removing Negative feedback for both parties for just that reason and no other. If a buyer is rude enough too leave me negative without contacting me . Yup !!! I will Neg the bugger.

However the gentle side will email the customer and tell them I would like to work the situation out.

It seems to work well for me
Todd

[shooger]

"I always leave positive feedback upon receiving payment too because, no matter what the level of decency, or even sanity, of the buyer they have completely fulfilled their legal obligation when they pay for the item."

100% agree! My auctions are set up so that a buyer's obligation is done as soon as they have paid on time and provided a valid address for shipping. I ALWAYS have, and ALWAYS will leave immediate positive feedback for such a buyer, even if they are at -5 feedback rating, and only leave negative feedbacks for buyers no matter how satisfied they were with the item they bought. That's just how I am, and that's my policy, and I've done several thousand sales on eBay in the past year since I started, and only regretted it a couple times. Most buyers, when given your trust, will use it wisely and not abuse it. When I buy something, and I know my end of the bargain is filled, it annoys me that the seller won't give me feedback until they have safely recieved a positive from me. My auction doesn't say "your end of the bargain is complete when you leave me a positive feedback".

I do understand that some sellers have additional prerequisits for their buyers, and I think it's up to them to decide how they leave feedback.

Don't change your practices just because of this guy. And chicshopper wasn't 100% right when they said that you can't get your feedback removed, because you left positive. EBay will remove any feedback (via the mutual feedback removal form) even if it's positive. Once they're both removed, you can't leave new feedback in their place, though. Go for it, give it a try. See if the guy will agree, and if he does, you won't have any negative feedback (again)! Perhaps email him before you fill out the form, notifying him that you want to do so... offer him a refund or replacement if he agrees, etc.

Welcome to the negative club... *toasts*

[iburk]

Congrats - it's always good to get the first one out of the way. I always leave feedback when I ship. In the shipping notice they are informed that they have received feedback, if they are happy about the transaction leave feedback ... if not, contact me. I never ask for feedback again - it's just not that important. For the only neg I have received, he got his neg in before I even had a chance to file a NPB - go figure.

My other sellers account just cleared 1340 unique without a neg/neutral. It's just a matter of time now.

[amberwoodottawa]

Has a transaction been completed if a customer who initially paid you through PayPal charges back the item?

shooger had a recent situation where he shipped a couple of cards to a buyer, customer complained about the quality and was able to charge back the item through PayPal and keep the product.

Had a positive FB been left upon payt or at the time the product was shipped, assuming the deal was completed, that positive FB would not be correct as the transaction was not fully complete upon payt.

I had someone who 1-2 weeks after receiving an acoustic violin attempted to return it for a full refund by telling me that I had listed it as an electric and suggested that I changed my listings since the time he made the purchase (another nut case).

I had held off giving him FB as he had not left me any.

I have changed my habit of leaving positive FB immediately upon customer payt and now do it selectively based on previous and continuing communication with the clients where I can sense the "IQ level" of the people I am dealing with. (If under 50 IQ, no FB until I get theirs)

Malcolm

[doc_scribe]

I sell mostly DVDs, and try to offer the kind of quality, service, and turnaround time that would be hard to quibble with on any level (although some invariably do--or try to--through muted or backhanded positives). But I try to kill 'em on volume--by selling enough fast enough that their negs become...well...neglibible (my current +:- ratio being something like 100:1, which IMHO really only makes the negger look very unreasonable, and more likely just plain foolish).

But you know, I'm starting to develop a *reel* genre prejudice here. More often than not, the drug-addled flakes and drug-needy psychos who will be most likely to 'go off' on you like that without due provocation are usually the horror folk...slasher and gore freaks...or the destructive, cruel action and comedy fans. So I'm becoming extra careful when dealing with those interested in such 'red flag' genres, or avoiding listing in them at all (the item has to be prime or rare now).

At least in the little corner of eBay I've been working, there really does seem to be some correlation between subject interest and inclined behaviour.

File under: yet another crackpot social theory.

[doc_scribe]

BTW, I seem to 'break-in' a LOT of 0 rating eBayers, and wouldn't think of automatically blocking or assuming the worst from them. I mean hey, we all started in the same place, but from a practical business standpoint, some of those folks have been my best bidding, fastest paying, and all-round most pleasurable buyers. Just starting out, many of them are anxious to prove that they cand be--and are--responsible eBayers.

Heck, in my experience, if anyone is likely to drag you out on payment, or be a colossal pain, it's some of those high-rated vets who believe themselves to be 'untouchable'...to whom the usual rules of promptness and courtesy don't apply.

[iburk]

I think the mileage varies on the product you sell. I have not received a chargeback yet, I am certainly not going to change anything because I might get one. I seriously doubt that I will change anything if I do get one - it just wastes to much time to monitor etc.

[deltone]

It USED to be my policy to leave feedback upon payment but no more. I don't leave feedback until the transaction is complete. In other words, when the buyer has the widget and is satisfied.

I don't believe the buyer's only obligation is to pay quickly. It is also his obligation to not file a false chargeback, or cancel a check, or send rude nasty emails trying to extort refunds and extra widgets. In addition, it's his obligation to not lie about getting the item.

It's his obligation to not get my dvd or tape and make a copy and and then tell me that the dvd doesn't work and he wants his money back, NOT a replacement dvd. It's his obligation to not receive my dvd, and enjoy it so much that he then tells his friend he can get him a free copy by emailing me and telling me he didn't get the dvd so I send him another. It's also his obligation to not find out his favorite dvd no longer works so he buys one of mine and then emails me and tells me the dvd I sent him is defective so I send him another and he returns his 3 year old, worn out dvd. I could go on but I think you get my point.

There are some bad eggs out there. Yes, MOST ebayers are honest and good. Most people are honest and good. That doesn't stop us from locking our doors does it? Most people wouldn't think of entering our homes uninvited but we still take percautions to prevent those that would from doing so. I feel the same way about feedback. I don't leave it until the buyer leaves it for me, OR if they email me advising they got the item and are happy with it. Even with this policy I've still received 4 undeserved negs from idiots who don't have a clue how to behave in the real world. Life goes on though. Each neg gets easier to deal with.

[doc_scribe]

To all here who withold feedback until after the buyer posts theirs ("You first, NO, YOU first"), don't you think that if a buyer sees your positive feedback after payment that it tends to put them in a better (i.e. more positive) frame of mind when they do actually receive your item? Something like a pre-emptive goodwill gesture? I figure if someone is hellbent to neg me, they're going to do so anyway, and even if I've already posted positive and can no longer neg them in retaliation, I can still follow-up my original comments with a more pointed 'final word' on the transaction. Doesn't that accomplish much the same thing from the perspective of anyone reading and evaluating their feedback? I certainly give those follow-ups added weight

Something like this happened awhile back with a 4 DVD order that arrived opened with 1 DVD missing (yep, horror movies...grrrrr). Anyway, this little creep e-mailed me about the missing DVD, and within 22 minutes, before I could even read much less answer his e-mail and reassure him I would replace or refund the missing item, he vilified me with ALL CAPS negs on ALL FOUR ITEMS...even the 3 he received in great condition! So I posted scathing "give your head a shake" style follow-ups on all 4 items, and since he had only like a 14 rating after a year or more, I knew those comments would be seen for quite awhile. I put my faith in the general intelligence of the general eBay buyer/seller population for seeing through such nonsense.

Sure, I resented his unhinged and completely unwarranted negs, but heck, they dropped me...what...from 99.7% to 99.6% overall positive...and they read so wildly out of character with all the positive comments surrounding them...well...who could possibly take such raving screed seriously? Moreover, I think it backfired--he just made himself look very petty and foolish instead, and everyone posting positives immediately afterwards were even warmer and more supportive than usual. So did this mean I was supposed to begin treating everyone with extreme wariness based on the possibility that this kind of random flakiness could re-occur? No way...if I ever become that jaundiced and adversarial toward the majority of good buyers and decent people on eBay, I'll just quietly cash out, and go do something else. I don't want to feel like that every day.

Negs...we're going to get them...the longer we're here, the more those odds increase. As already suggested, it's best to just get over them as quickly as possible, and move on.

[amberwoodottawa]

I dont wait until I receive positive feedback. In 50% of the cases, I wait until the client receives the product and either confirms that he received it and likes it (by filing feedback or emailing me) or by telling me he is not happy with his purchase or files a Square Trade complaint.

Once again, the different products that each of us sells gives us different customers and different problems.

When someone orders a DVD or a CD, they know what to expect. However when someone orders a musical instrument from me, that customer has not heard the sound, the quality or felt the materials in that instrument until he receives it from me.

Fortunately 99% are very happy with what they receive however there are those who are not. That doesnt mean that I will receive negative feedback if they receive something different from what they expected.

Most will keep the instrument, some will request that I take it back. In most of those cases, I have either received no feedback or positive feedback for the way that I handled the entire transaction.

However there are those few out there that dont communicate with you and automatically leave a negative and start calling you a fraud and a cheat (I am dealing with one of these loonies right now).


Malcolm

[whoscloset]

I always give positive feedback immediately upon confirmed payment. I believe it sets a goodwill precedent that, hopefully, keeps the transaction positive. I also respond to e-mails in a pleasant manner regardless of the tone of the original message. As my grandmother used to say "You'll catch a lot more flies with honey than you will with vinegar".

I have yet to receive a negative although I'm sure this will happen eventually. I'm not really too worried about it as I believe that customers are not turned off by one negative nut when you have a great deal of positive experiences recorded. I believe a successful business is as much a product of the service you are providing as the item. Especially a transaction in which in a certain degree of mutual trust must be assumed as with internet sales.

It's worked for me so far, I've had a lot of repeat customers, and I won't be changing my position if some unhappy person takes out their frustration on me with negative feedback.

Monique

[your-chic-shopper]

The problem happens for me with volume . The more sales I do the greater the problems that happen

Wait till you have a teak candle holder sell for 75.00 get smashed around by the shipper and the customer, thinks you were the shipping company . Wait till you do the volume in the home decor, that when the loopies come out . Today alone I had 4 people email me and tell me , after they purchased that they are not going to purchase the item


I mean I have actually had people tell me in an email to tell the postman to leave it at the front door . I am not talking about a small note . But a note like I personally know the postman

[iburk]

Monique, good for you! I have not bought a lot of stuff on eBay, but I can truly say that I have burned more by sellers than by buyers. I do get emails where the customer is completely loaded for bear ... with the preconception that he/she is going to get screwed over again. I can always turn these customers with something that is missing in NA - respect for a paying customer.

your-chic-shopper, the note is not to unreasonable. If a package comes and they are not at home it goes back to the post office for them to pick up (it's sometimes iffy if the postman leaves them a pickup notice). It's really nothing to put a few words on a package and as far as I know the directions are followed.

I also saw in the CP bashing thread your comments about UPS service via Blaine. I ship out of the Point - I have seen at least one, maybe three, companies that advertise a similiar service. The big difference is that you choose the carrier. BTW: if you are only going to ship once a week consider a run to the Point yourself ... it's a great place to have a relaxed lunch.