eBay

p009731 · ‎02-19-2016

I ALWAYS ship same or next day. I just received from a buyer, a bad tick of item not arriving in time. That is because my item was bought by a US soldier with a Military mail forwarding destination service.

My (his) item was sent Canada Post (water proofed as per his instructions) then to USPS then to Military mail forwarding service then to who knows where in the world, Guam? Middle East? Antarctica?

The water proofing probably kicked it out of the mechanical postal process and probably had to be manually processed at each stop. I normally only sell to US and Canada. So how is it my fault it was delayed???

How does eBay protect me from such mail forwarding services? It seems they don't. How would I rectify this craziness with eBay??

Also someone didn't notice something in my "As pictured listing" blamed me and then claimed they only way they knew how to get a hold of me was buy using the "I want a refund and seller pays for return shipping" button. Even though I have a NO refund policy. This is Crazy, especially when you look at my feedback.

So now anyone can use this for buyers remorse even though ebay says you can't.

A month earlier I purchased a watch that came with broken case. Seller said it would cost me to much to send it back not worth my while. I get screwed as a buyer, I get screwed as a seller.

musicyouneed · ‎02-19-2016

Hi I have the same issue and it seems there is nothing that I can do. See below:

Hello Raphael,
I am having an issue with the new measurement: delivery on time. I ship light packet so there is no tracking.
On Oct 17/15, I sold a CD to a buyer – Item 191712527304. The buyer was having the item shipped to the US were it would then be reshipped to him in Kazakhstan, where he lives and works. I don’t ship to Kazakhstan but I do ship to the US. I shipped out the next business day on Oct 19/15. In Dec, they buyer left me positive feedback stating "Received quickly and in good condition all the way to Kazakhstan!". He left me 5’s for all the DSR’s. Where the problem is: When he goes to leave feedback, ebay asks the buyer whether he received the CD within the dates (as set by ebay for shipping from Canada to the US). Of course he can only answer yes or no and he answers No because, it was not delivered to him in Kazakhstan within the 2 week period allowed for US shipments. So I got dinged for a late shipment. I don’t feel this is fair. Buyer was happy, he just wasn’t aware that answering that question “Did you get the item by (this date)? with a No would cause me a problem.

I know that in the last 2 months I have sent several CD’s to addresses in the US which forward them on to countries I don’t ship to. When they go to leave feedback it is going to ask whether they received the CD within the time period from Canada to the US. I can just see this becoming an issue for me.

I called ebay and they were not any help for me. What can I do? Why should I be penalized here, I don’t feel this is fair.

The thing to keep in mind is that by agreeing to ship untracked to a forwarding address, a seller exposes themselves to some risk. How could eBay know that the shipping address used by the buyer isn't their true shipping address? We provide sellers with tools to allow or restrict shipping to specified countries, if the seller decides to circumvent their own stated terms, they do so at their own risk.

My advice would be to warn any buyer located outside of the regions where a seller ships and who asks to use a forwarding address in this manner to be mindful of the on time shipping question at feedback, or to always use tracking in such situations.

With that said, if the buyer did not ask if this shipping arrangement was okay before buying, and still replied no to the on time shipping question, it would be different and I believe, possible to appeal the defect. If this is the case with this example, please let me know.

@musicyouneed wrote:
Hi Raphael, I was wondering if there was any news on this?

@musicyouneed wrote:
Hi Raphael. The buyer did not ask me if this shipping arrangement was OK with me. He purchased the item with a US address and it was only after he paid and I shipped that he told me it was going to Kazakhstan. I didn't know that it was being forwarded when he purchased the item. I shouldn't have a mark against me in this case. I didn't know and he didn't tell me until after I shipped.

Also when I check out the addresses I am shipping to they are freight forwarding outlets and I do not know when the person lives.
Hi musicyouneed,

Thanks for these details. I have brought your case to the Standards team for review and this is being discussed as I type this. I'll let you know what comes out.

Hi musicyouneed,

Yes. This has been discussed at length with CS and the best answer I got from them was "better use tracking." While what they are saying is true, I don't consider that to be a great answer to give to a Canadian seller. So I've taken your case to the Standards team leadership for a deeper study. So the bad news is, I wasn't able to get you clemency this time as of yet (I'll continue trying), and the good news is, your case has gotten the attention of the Standards team and even though it's too early to tell, this may lead to an update in the policy.

momcqueen · ‎02-20-2016

I feel your pain. The previous reply is from another member who also experienced this kind of problem with a forwarded parcel. It is detailed and should answer most of your questions about this.

Because I have a low tolerance for irritation, I have eliminated all untraced Small Packets Airmail from my listings; 75 per cent of Light Packet is gone and my only weak spot is domestic lettermail on roughly 30 per cent of my offerings. If it can be shipped with tracking, it will be. I made the change Feb. 1 2016. I ship same-day and have no defects at the moment but I also do not have time to fight with Customer Service every time ebay miscalculates a delivery estimate and I see far too many geographical areas and/or destinations where the estimates are so low as to be ludicrous.

As I said from the moment these new standards were announced, it's ridiculous to expect Canadians without access to affordable tracked services to be able to compete with their American counterparts on postal delivery standard that are incorrectly calculated by ebay and/or outside our control by the letter carriers. (Don't get me started). If getting an acceptance scan on time is the only thing I can trust, then that is what I will aim to achieve. My product and service is flawless, I don't need to keep proving that over and over again, and I resent being judged for some other entity's short-comings.

Anyway, I do expect my international sales will plummet as a result of the new ebay policy for seller standards and, well, tough nuts to ebay for that. If I lose money in the short-term, they do too. I fully expect an about-face from ebay in the Spring with that Seller Update then where they tweak the terms of the program so I will wait until then before I decide whether or not to relax my new tracked-only stipulation.

sylviebee · ‎02-20-2016

I've always disliked notes to buyers about FB and 5 star ratings.

In spite of that, I used to send a note to my buyers. A few months ago I stopped and I now get less FB.

To me that’s an indication that buyers do actually pay attention to those notes.

I wonder if it would be possible to word a note to buyers so they understand that when they rate shipping time, they are actually rating the Post Office if the seller sent the item within the stated handling time?

Of course, it would be a tricky note to construct because you don’t want even the slightest suggestion that you are asking the buyer to lie about arrival time.

If the item did not arrive before the cut off date you want the buyer to either skip that question or not to leave FB at all.

momcqueen · ‎02-20-2016

You raise an interesting point. I wonder too if there would be a way to carefully approach the subject of The Question on a packing slip, but I have not thought of a way to do it. I'm not certain that I'd want to do it. As a buyer, I have had some pushy notes included from my seller in my parcel that I did not appreciate so, when crafting my own, I tried very hard not to come across that way. As we all know, most buyers cannot be bothered to leave feedback. Fewer and fewer do, so to solicit it, often leads to hearing back things you don't want to hear. Plus, wrongly worded, it's like handing someone a loaded gun and saying, 'Here you are, a loaded weapon. Maybe don't shoot me? I guess the choice is now yours.' Maybe they decide they didn't like the price they paid but not enough to return it and instead opt to hit you somewhere else that it hurts.

pjcdn2005 · ‎02-20-2016

A month earlier I purchased a watch that came with broken case. Seller said it would cost me to much to send it back not worth my while. I get screwed as a buyer, I get screwed as a seller.

I agree that it can be very frustrating when we are rated on things that we can't control but I don't understand why you didn't open an item not as described case for the broken watch case.

izzame · ‎02-20-2016

I'm also in the process of wording a note. I'm kind of going with the angle of FYI/educational. Straight up front, not in a promoting feedback manner, something to the effect if you choose to leave feedback please understand what you are really responding to when checking yes or no on the shipping part. I expect you to be 100% truthful if you choose to respond. Then fully explain how they are really rating the postal service on ebays behalf no the seller, but the seller is taking the hit/responsibility for the efficiently or lack of , of the postal service.

I did a little test with this slant and was talking to someone that buys but has never sold and not interested in selling. Buys maybe 2/mth

And asked how they would answer, and obviously whatever was true. I then asked if they were aware of what their response meant to the seller. First they were surprised that it effected the seller at all. After doing my FYI this buyer felt like us ..... prove it was shipped on time and it's generally out of our hands. I also asked if they would accept me emailing them an image/scan of postal receipt for a non-tracked pkg. Great idea.

Buyer also pointed out with this knowledge it puts them in an uncomfortable position in answering "the question" if it's a NO as they don't want to lie but don't want to get the seller "in trouble" for something that is not their fault.

hmmmm .... good point. Isn't it kind of "morally" wrong to ask someone to answer a question "honestly", a simple, easy question BUT not telling the respondent that it's more than it appears.

momcqueen · ‎02-20-2016

There are ways that ebay could choose to mitigate the damage from this. There could be a third way to answer The Question with a 'Don't Know/Doesn't Apply' OR they could factor the defect percentage on the TOTAL number of transactions that a seller has, not just the ones with data from tracking or feedback OR they could accept the Proof of Shipment slip on Small Packets Airmail as an Acceptance Scan. But since we are merely Canadians affected by this and judged Globally, no one in a position of power cares enough to see that happen. Without honest numbers which we will never be given, we are unable to see how truly insignificant our complaints must be to them. Do Canadians on ebay.ca represent one per cent of ebay's trade? Less than one percent?

izzame · ‎02-20-2016

See my post #7 ...... yes, being up front, I may be handing them "a loaded gun" but, you are always going to have a "few bad apples" wether it's a buyer or seller, it's human nature it's part of life. I'm sure I'd take a few "bad apple hits" but I still believe honesty wins in the end.

hlmacdon · ‎02-20-2016

Just to play devil's advocate here...feedback solicitation is a double edged sword. For frequent buyers it can be off-putting, I regularly have to clean out my email inbox with emails from various online stores or services asking me to rate something, like something, recommend something, or follow someone. For the few that you may convert you have no idea how many you are annoying who might otherwise have left feedback.

I've found the best way to increase the rate of feedback is to immediately leave the buyer feedback upon processing of their order, then send a message upon ship out with any relevant details. If you happen to be shipping untracked, a photo/scan of a copy of the light/small packet mailing label with an acceptance stamp is recommended. This was very key for me when I was shipping untracked. This will let your buyer know you shipped your item on time, after all you marking something as shipped means nothing to a buyer in the absence of a tracking number. Ultimately you can't educate every buyer, and more to the point, not every buyer is going to want to be educated.

Hopefully we will get acceptance scans in place for light/small packet in the future and this issue can be put to bed.

momcqueen · ‎02-20-2016

You're right; it does not seem outside the realm of possibilities that if it has a bar code and is scanned on acceptance, that an actual Acceptance Scan would be visible on Small Packets. Until then.... well... I expect my export sales will suffer as a result of the high cost of postage with tracking BUT I have always listed in CAD and now our low dollar more than makes up for the higher shipping cost. I cannot say I'm suffering much. Yet. Except for the $10 item sales to UK, Sweden or France, those have disappeared.

izzame · ‎02-20-2016

I understand what you are saying about for now emailing scan of receipt. But this "issue" isn't about feedback and the building of .... as I understand it, after whatever date ebay has picked, feedback it self will count for basically "jack" as far as part of their formula for the sellers overall rating. ebays vision (or lack of) is on this shipping thing.

I find for a bit of extra insight, I read the .com "weekly" seller discussion board. Also get a better idea of what this weeks "eBay spin" is on things. The one from Feb 10 is quite interesting were "griff" suggested if too many "lates" switch to a different shipping carrier LOL which brought on an interesting discussion.

momcqueen · ‎02-20-2016

Snort. A different carrier. Like strapping this to my own back and heading out into the Great Blue Yonder like a Fur Trader?

izzame · ‎02-20-2016

You got it, have the ponies fuelled and watered ..... supplies on the pack mules and lets get these pacels delivered. PS I can only "ship" in a 50 mile radius to get these delivered on "self carrier" time constants

hlmacdon · ‎02-20-2016

@mjwl2006 wrote:
You're right; it does not seem outside the realm of possibilities that if it has a bar code and is scanned on acceptance, that an actual Acceptance Scan would be visible on Small Packets. Until then.... well... I expect my export sales will suffer as a result of the high cost of postage with tracking BUT I have always listed in CAD and now our low dollar more than makes up for the higher shipping cost. I cannot say I'm suffering much. Yet. Except for the $10 item sales to UK, Sweden or France, those have disappeared.

Raphael has hinted, and I stress hinted, that this is the sort of thing that may be in discussion with Canada Post about. Keep in mind this is inferred from his comments as he couldn't comment specifically on this issue. With USPS even the countries that do not receive delivery confirmation receive acceptance scans. One of the big USPS pushes over the last few years has been getting postal services to standardize on their barcoding formats and data interchange. Hopefully that bears fruit, even if it doesn't include full tracking.

hlmacdon · ‎02-20-2016

@izzame wrote:
I understand what you are saying about for now emailing scan of receipt. But this "issue" isn't about feedback and the building of .... as I understand it, after whatever date ebay has picked, feedback it self will count for basically "jack" as far as part of their formula for the sellers overall rating. ebays vision (or lack of) is on this shipping thing.

It won't solve the issue 100%, but providing incontrovertible proof to a buyer of when their item was shipped, in the absence of a tracking number, is more likely to have them not ding your shipment as late.

I find for a bit of extra insight, I read the .com "weekly" seller discussion board. Also get a better idea of what this weeks "eBay spin" is on things. The one from Feb 10 is quite interesting were "griff" suggested if too many "lates" switch to a different shipping carrier LOL which brought on an interesting discussion.

It is a very US centric program which works very well for US based, or sellers using USPS, individuals who can use USPS. There really isn't much of an excuse for a US seller to be complaint with the program, as it isn't hard to get an acceptance scan within stated handling times. For Canada that is a whole different issue of course.

momcqueen · ‎02-20-2016

I know the comment(s) to which you are referring and I agree. I was thinking, however, that ebay and Canada Post might be cooking up a special deal for ebay sellers specifically. We might be small fish in a big pond as far as ebay Global is concerned but I'm thinking that if you added all the parcels sent by every Ebay seller in Canada, you'd be looking at a significant amount. Alone, I qualify for one of the highest tiers offered by CPC's Small Business program (if I didn't use paypal most of the time) and I'm nothing special. I'm sure there are thousands of sellers like me in Canada. Well, a thousand. Maybe?

izzame · ‎02-20-2016

RE: " ... may be in discussion with Canada Post about. Keep in mind this is inferred from his comments as he couldn't comment specifically on this issue."

Just a few things ponder: How much would this cost CP to impliment on ebay's behalf? Yes, I'm sure more business's than just eBay would benefit from it but ebay is the only one crying and the hardest and longest. At the end, it's what is best for CP and "their" vision not ebay's. If something does get implemented (which I hope it does) it will be CP decision. Unless it is through some sort of "side" deal meaning not avail. to a Canadians, just ebay sellers. A # of possibilities ..... or maybe not. An amount of "fluff" on both ends.

As I'm sure most know, CP has a very strong union ....... the puck doesn't stop at CP mgmt.

Also, remember, when the masses are riled up, give them a positive crumb ( wether possible or not) to get some what of a calmness ..... while in the background you are scrambling to either take a real hard 2nd look at things or, whats the next crumb to come up with

Not being hard or neg. Trying to think just from a business only point.

hlmacdon · ‎02-20-2016

@mjwl2006 wrote:
I know the comment(s) to which you are referring and I agree. I was thinking, however, that ebay and Canada Post might be cooking up a special deal for ebay sellers specifically. We might be small fish in a big pond as far as ebay Global is concerned but I'm thinking that if you added all the parcels sent by every Ebay seller in Canada, you'd be looking at a significant amount. Alone, I qualify for one of the highest tiers offered by CPC's Small Business program (if I didn't use paypal most of the time) and I'm nothing special. I'm sure there are thousands of sellers like me in Canada. Well, a thousand. Maybe?

The other area ebay has been lobbying postal services at the international level for is lower cost tracking options for smaller packages (akin to the epacket program) for microcommerce. At the same time USPS has been pushing all UPU to standardize around a universal barcode/data exchange format. The holdouts that were using registered mail that didn't agree to that program got their USPS visibility (tracking) cut off for the US end.

To that extent USPS is forcing changes. My understanding from past readings on the issue is that has been one of the big barriers to better tracking options internationally, too many postal services with different systems in place and no consistent data exchange other than outdated registered mail systems. The cost barrier portion has been the terminal rates each service charges each other for the delivery within their country to the end recipient. Renegotiating those rates appears to be a big subject for discussion next year. Introducing a lower cost option like epacket on a more widespread basis to allow them to charge slightly higher terminal rates than lettermail while helping to offset the continuing loss in lettermail volume would seem to make sense.

With that sort of thing in mind, you can see where ebay might specifically be discussing lower rates for tracked services for Canada, as well as general issues such as visibility of mailed items. Timing-wise it looks like the right time for someone like ebay to be pushing for this as you sort of have the perfect storm brewing. Canada Post has a good deal of room to move on rates, as I well know from previous contract rates I was privy to. We pay a hefty premium for tracked packet for instance, and those rates include a huge profit margin for Canada Post.

hlmacdon · ‎02-20-2016

@izzame wrote:
RE: " ... may be in discussion with Canada Post about. Keep in mind this is inferred from his comments as he couldn't comment specifically on this issue."
Just a few things ponder: How much would this cost CP to impliment on ebay's behalf? Yes, I'm sure more business's than just eBay would benefit from it but ebay is the only one crying and the hardest and

System-wise and equipment-wise they are already setup for this. With automation already in place this isn't adding a layer of cost, other than factoring the 1-2 seconds it requires a clerk at a dropoff point to scan a package. You are leveraging systems and infrastructure already in place, with the main change being a process one, where packages of a certain type would receive a scan at one part of the journey, but not another. For staff it is no more complicated than the distinction between a package requiring signature confirmation, and one not requiring signature confirmation. This is the sort of thing that is easily negotiated into a rate agreement with an agreed level of compensation if needed.