marking items with ultraviolet sensitive ink

[gjw4922]

Hello fellow members...

I've noticed that some sellers mark their items with ultraviolet - sensitive ink because of past experiences where the buyer has swapped a damaged item for one which a seller sent and then claimed it arrived damaged. I noticed that the sellers also mentioned on their listing that the item is marked. Is this notification necessary? Couldn't the buyer, after being alerted to this fact, mark his damaged item in exactly the same spot and try to say it's the one that the seller sent? Is there an ebay policy that addresses whether marked items must be announced prior to shipping?

Many thanks,

Gordon

[mr.elmwood]

What a complete waste of time, money, effort, and whatever.

If you are afraid of selling, eBay is not for you.

Returns, breakage, theft, etc, are simply a cost of doing business.

So, you can prove, with a magic pen, that you got cheated in one out of a thopusand sales, what then? What are ya gonna do? report it to someone? Who? Then what?

[gjw4922]

Lots of people don't sell thousands of items and I'd say your comment probably closely parallels the mindset of such a fraudster as one that would do this. Or perhaps you're just trying to bug me....or perhaps you don't like the idea of items being secretly marked.

[femmefan1946]

The secret markings, whether they exist or not, would warn a fraudster not to try anything with that seller. OTOH, I doubt eBay's mediators would be able to use such markings as a part of their decision making.

Using such a pen on some collectible items could make them uncollectible. I am thinking particularly of stamps (ever seen a stamp with an "expertising" mark rubber stamped on it?) but some other materials including cloth, rubber, and paper could be harmed by such harsh chemicals.

And there is no need to snark at mr. elmwood. He is a mean nasty cynical old man and as a mean nasty cynical old woman I admire that in him.

[femmefan1946]

BTW

Should someone wish to have the figurine shipped with no or minimum insurance coverage, reply to me with your home or web based email address included for a detailed discussion.

Frankly, I think this statement is asking for trouble. The Seller chooses the method of shipping and the cost of packing and postage. The Buyer either accepts it or moves on. Some sales are not worth having.

Did I mention I was old and cynical?

[pocomocomputing]

Marking an item does not prove anything. For example, a seller does the following.

A seller has an item and takes pictures of it without the marks.  He then marks the item and takes pictures again. He uses the marked pictures in the listing and makes sure the mark is in one of the pictures. All are ebay pictures in the eBay photo gallery and not 3rd party hosted in the description.

Seller sells the item and the buyer returns it for refund. Buyer returns the actual item sold with the marking. Unscrupulous seller "proves" it is not the same item by using the first set of photos before he marked the item. Pictures can be different and sellers claims he just took them of the return. Seller scams buyer.

Another way is if the seller has more than one of the item. He just uses pictures of the other item as proof it is not the same item item.

So it is just it is still the word of a buyer versus a seller.

Stating in the listing description that you put marks on the item may be a deterrent. That is all it is good for. My opinion.

[rose-dee]

I agree with 'poco' - the actual value of marking with special ink is dubious, but may deter fraud.  Then again, you take the risk that legitimate buyers might be deterred if they think that such markings deface and devalue a collectible piece.  

My suggestion for valuable (and possibly breakable items) would be to show a shipping service with insurance to protect yourself from loss or damage, and try to rest easy with that.  If you're concerned that higher shipping costs may turn off buyers, then do what many sellers do and absorb the difference yourself, or find a way to self-insure -- putting aside a small percentage of every transaction is enough to protect you from the 1 in 1,000 that may be a truly bad experience.  

I think there are far fewer actual fraudsters out there than you may fear.  And I would think that someone paying you $300 up front for a fairly rare Swarovski piece is unlikely to have an identical piece handy (but broken) to use for a "damage" scam photo.  Keep in mind that paying a significant price for an item to begin with is a risk for the buyer as well, until he/she actually receives the item.  

I did want to point out the following that I noticed in one of your listings: 

"Shipping will be by Canada Post and does not include damage insurance as these cones are practically indestructible if properly packaged. It is insured for loss, though, and may well require a signature upon arrival. If, somehow, it does arrive damaged, I will reimburse for the entire purchase price but buyer will have to pay for the return shipping cost and wait until I receive the cone before getting my refund for the original purchase and shipping cost."

I'm not quite sure how you can insure for loss but not damage?  Personally I wouldn't include any of this wording in the listing description, but put it in your return policy details instead.  In that regard, I noticed that the same listing (under the "Shipping Info") tab, indicates "no returns".  You should either change your listing description to reflect no returns, or select a suitable return policy when preparing your listings (preferably 14 days -- or longer -- with money back upon return of item), to correct this discrepancy.   

[mr.elmwood · Accepted solution]

GJW, sigh, I was retail liquor for 35 years. I have seen every scam and every management attempt to stop it. Read this thread from seller central dot com and tell me how a magic pen would have stopped anything:

http://community.ebay.com/t5/Seller-Central/Warning-to-Sellers/m-p/17983039#U17983039

In retail, and yes, this is retail, there is shrinkage. The more you spend on time, effort, and equipment, the more money you lose. The simplest and cheapest method is to budget for it and forget about it.

I know what you want and it is impossible. Yes, I am direct. Want to know my opinion about shrinkage in a retail environment? Post a thread on a message board. Theft happens because there are thieves. Thieves happen because there is stuff to steal. In my 8,000 sales, a magic pen would have made a difference how many times? None.

[cumos55]

When it comes to breakables, Canada Post insures for loss, but not breakage.

It is the responsibility of the seller to prepare the parcel in such a manner that the purchased item will NOT break.

I have shipped very large pieces of Chalet glass to New Zealand... with a cost of shipping at about $100 Canadian... That was about 4 years ago.

I was so good at packing large breakables  the buyer made me an offer to buy more and ship en mass.... a small container full perhaps.

Why?   They buy for $50 ... with $100 for shipping... and sell in New Zealand for $350... .   that is a profit of $200 each

Historically they had 50 % breakage in transit.....  I had 0 % breakage....  for Chalet glass to new Zealand using surface mail

One has to know what to do,  and how to pack properly.

In all my years of shipping breakables using Canada Post... I have had one item break.....  Buyer sent me a picture  ... I had a good chuckle  ... and a full refund was made without question....  This was airmail,  too much handling  in transit  and not properly packaged. 

[cumos55]

Makers marks are not the same on all ceramics.

(1) Manufacturer's  stamp  eg  the Doulton mark.....  the intensity of the mark, within a mark,  varies from piece to piece

(2) Maker's mark... the worker's mark has at times been pressed into the base... usually the painter

(3) Sometimes  there is notation in ink.... date or inspection notation

and all of this is below the glaze......   except for items with a non-glazed finish.

Take the photograph  with reference to the finish on the upper part of the item... and that should be enough to confirm  the identity of any piece.

Many times the relationship between the notation on the  base and  the upper finish does vary... somewhat.

One should also note that if pieces are handpainted....  there is a variation from piece to piece...artistic license.... subtle  but there....

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modern electronics have serial numbers..... photograph and include that in the listing.. 

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One does not have to mark "with ink" it to identify it.....'

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A prime example of a problem... Buyer bought it... A Royal Doulton piece and then found it was Made in China....  not England

Seller should have known  and shown

A photograph with a note in the description should have clarified that... Nothing should be left to question..

[mr.elmwood · Accepted solution]

Let me expand on what Cumos is saying:

Take pictures like you have no description
Describe like you have no pictures

A well laid out, intelligent, professional listing, is your best defense.

[bb_cool_stuff]

Take pictures like you have no description.

Describe like you have no picture.

Great point ! 

I think its time to publish your "Inukisms"

To heck with with your Car Parts, i see a Best Seller in your future.

[cumos55]

And

Never say... The condition of this item can be seen in the photograph.

I  have seen this many times... with just one photograph.

I have sold a lot of Blue Mountain Pottery.  that is BMP

BMP has a unique look.  Many sellers do not understand this  and want it to be BMP.

My best indicator of BMP is the finish in relation to the color of the clay ...  a bright reddish brown clay.

As a seller you can say  just about anything.... but if I cannot "see"  the many indicators of BMP..  It is not BMP

BMP versus CCC ( Canadian Ceramic Craft which became Rainbow Pottery), versus Canadiana Pottery, versus McMaster versus Evangeline/Canuck and in relation to several others

The same goes for Chalet Glass versus Lorraine glass......    there are major differences  that many choose to ignore... and call it all Chalet glass... because Chalet Glass sells... If it is not marked Chalet Glass it is not Chalet Glass....

A seller has to know  and be able to describe effectively.....  description in relation to photographs

[thebarterersdog · Accepted solution]

Good Lord! I'm exhausted just thinking about this thread lol 

Sometimes, I wonder if sellers think of their items like they do a child going off to University for the first time... They know they have to cut the apron strings... but they just can't let it go... And when they finally do, they fuss and muss over it and reluctantly let go...

Seriously... LET IT GO! For heaven's sake. Write it off as a loss if it is stolen, scammed, broken, whatever... Otherwise, keep it in your own collection to oogle and drool over... if you're that attached, then it's not meant to be sold. Really?   Magic ink?? I've dealt with collectors who freak out if an item is cleaned/dusted, can you imagine if we scribbled invisible ink on it? 

[bb_cool_stuff]

Never say... The condition of this item can be seen in the photograph.

Funny you mention this today.

I have been wrestling with a 1976 Olympic Participant medallion & how to best write an honest description.

I have also seen " Check Photographs " in many coin & medallion descriptions. I'm not sure if that would be good enough.

Since i am not an expert or even a novice in this category, it would be dishonest of me to write a condition description without that knowledge.

I'm open to all opinions regarding this concern.

[cumos55]

Person bought a beautiful ... bronze statue... at auction.

Surface was tarnished.

Next week buyer tells the auctioneer.. that the statue was polished... and looks gorgeous.

Ouch... clean that statue and we lose a minimum of 50 % of market value.

Antiques Roadshow.... Antique furniture.....  Do not refinish... do not remove the natural patina  developed over years of use.

In original condition   $30,000... in refinished condition $8,000

That toy from the 1930s....  In original condition $1500... repainted in black...  $20

I can stand back and view a piece and tell you exactly what is "wrong"  and more importantly  what is "right"

The more rights  the greater the value..

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That medallion... description in relation to what you see in person and in the photographs.

Photographs must show everything, from several angles.... In "correct" color  without reflection  that the potential buyer would see... Even though each potential buyer's computer may show things differently with respect to color.....

Measurements..... condition... relative to wear, if any... How was it stored.... 

You do not have to be an expert... but you have to describe fully and carefully

Follow eBay  for several months  and see what sellers say... and how similar items sell...

then sell it....

The medallion can be washed with water... dry it....  and polished to some degree  but not with chemicals

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[bb_cool_stuff]

Thanks Cumos.

There are a couple for sale right now 221230795509 & 2909874608555.

I feel the descriptions are pretty generic coupled with a museum price.

I would say my item is comparable & has the two original cases but am not sure if they would sell at a museum price.

The Completed Listings show some were sold but a few were in pretty rough shape.

[cumos55]

A very good indicator of value... both at fixed price and auction.

Your choice with respect to final price...  and in relation to condition.

In such a situation I ask a question of myself..

Do I want it to sit  for months... or do I want a relatively quick sale yet at an acceptable good price?

[bb_cool_stuff]

Thanks again Cumos.

I forgot i had the item until i found it under the box of pins i sell in the store.

Nice piece, but to be honest, i usually only find an inexpensive item like this every six months or so.

Not usually an item i sell but i have done well in the past with 76 Olympic pins so i thought why not.

I think i will wait right now & probably list it when the Winter Olympics begin.

[gifts_of_elegance · Accepted solution]

At one time  my main product was Swarovski Crystal.  Canada Post does not insure against breakage because glass is sensitive to temperature changes.  I always packed my item so that it would withstand being thrown down a flight of stairs without breakage.  (No, I never did that, it was just a standard I set.)  That does not guarantee the item will not arrive broken.  Swarovski crystal pieces are held together with a special glue.  Over years it dries out and the piece will fall apart.  Usually its horns, ears, tails, petals, If the detached piece has room to move, it will cause further damage.  Summer is the worst time to ship Swarovski.

I noticed that the majority of Swarovski dealers marked their items so I did too.  At first I put my finger in washable kids' paint and put my finger print on the crystal.  I stopped doing that when one customer actually broke the item while wiping it off.  I gave her another one and went on to writing  my initials on the bottom of the piece with invisable ink.  One customer was outraged that ithe crystal was "Cloudy".  At that point I stopped.  I always knew that even if an item was switched, no one would believe me.  It was more of a scare tactic to discourage dishonest people.  There were a few but I spent more sleepless nights worrying about what was happening in transit and in Customs.    I shipped several $6,000+ pieces over-seas.  My biggest loss was $1,000.