"Not as described dispute" in PayPal, who is going to be believed ?

[purse_of_the_legionary]

Hi, I have a buyer who just opened a Not as described dispute in PayPal. In reality, he purchased a group of uncleaned ancient coins, tried to clean them, ruined them and return them for a refund. He only said that the item was not as described and required to get refund for shipping charges also if it was my mistake. It wasn't, he tries to trick me. He is telling his version in PayPal dispute, but he has nothing to prove his sayings. I will tell my version in PayPal, but I have no proof.

Why do I have that strange feeling that PayPal will automatically believe the buyer's version ? Is there anything I can do, as I lost not only the item (he ruined the coins, I can't relist them), but also $130 money if they refund him. I already paid $38 in brokerage UPS fees to accept his return. I will have lost $188 + my perfect 100% reputation, no neutral, just great feedbacks and happy buyers so far...

[purse_of_the_legionary]

I paid $58 in UPS brokerage fees, not just $38 (typing mistake)...

[jerseypros]

Sorry to say but you'll definitely lose this one...if you've paid the brokerage fees that means the item has been returned and the buyer will be able to provide tracking info. showing this. Why would you agree to pay a brokerage fee on an item coming back to you?

[surplusdealdude]

I think you may lose this one, yes.

You could take a picture of the ruined coins and submit that as proof that he tried to clean them, I suppose, but Paypal could choose to believe that you sent them to him in that condition. -------------------------------------------------------------------

It is our similarities that make us all human - it is our differences that make us all interesting

[purse_of_the_legionary]

@ jerseypro

if you've paid the brokerage fees that means the item has been returned and the buyer will be able to provide tracking info. showing this. Why would you agree to pay a brokerage fee on an item coming back to you?

I agreed to pay because until I opened the returned package, I thought there was a mistake. It was impossible to see what the buyer returned without paying.

And what if the buyer return a box filled with something else, but with a tracking number ?

I mean, it's that easy to return anything for any reason, spoil the item, smash an ipod to bits and ask for a refund, as long as you have a tracking number ?

[purse_of_the_legionary]

@ surplusdealdude

You could take a picture of the ruined coins and submit that as proof that he tried to clean them, I suppose, but Paypal could choose to believe that you sent them to him in that condition.

Of course I can take a picture, but how can I send this picture to PayPal ??? Am I loosing my time trying to reveal the truth ? I can't believe PayPal would make it so easy to help buyers to steal sellers...

I would be curious to learn how t-shirts sellers survive on eBay, as they should receive tons of returns and chargeback, with many non-resellable items because buyer cleaned their purchases in the washing machine before to return... Do they always loose PayPal dispute ?

[purse_of_the_legionary]

I just called PayPal to discuss about this situation, and I've been told by the agent that I will probably have to let the money go to the buyer. But he also talked about what can be done once the refund is sent, and said I could ask for an APPEAL regarding this dispute, to reevaluate the case if I am still convinced buyer was wrong. If win the appeal, I think I could receive money for the item, but from PayPal or something, he said it has something to do with the seller protection.

Anyone experienced what he called an "Appeal" in PayPal. How does that work ? Does that work ? Any information would be appreciated. Thanks

[dipmicro]

purse_of_the_legionary, I also occassionally have a buyer who is trying to pull a scam and lack of available help is frustrating.

Email is very anonymous. Get his phone number and call him, use your most professional voice, no threats and tell him coins have been ruined.

He does not feel so hidden behind internet anymore, you have his phone number and address. Confront him over the phone, use salutation "sir" instead of first name. Be firm but do not yell. He knows he has done wrong and if he is not seasoned scammer, phone call like this can be very coercive, especially if received unexpected - so do not call him right after requesting his info from eBay.

[jerseypros]

I agreed to pay because until I opened the returned package, I thought there was a mistake. It was impossible to see what the buyer returned without paying.

I think my point was why would you pay duty on an item that is being returned...even if you win the claim you would not get back the duty paid. You should have refused the package and asked the seller to return it using US Postal with the proper documentation on the customs form (ie return mechandise).

[indiej12]

I ran into a similar situation. I had an buyer from Saudi Arabia claim they recieved an empty envelope. I had proved to paypal that the buyer refused insurance. that may help, but i assume these coins you speak of were sent insured. You must call paypal , I find emails just don't do anything with them, plus I would get an email address from the person on the phone so you can send before and after pictures to show what this buyer did. paypal is pretty good if you remain calm with them. i think if you can show them the before and after pics plus your sending shipping info and your receiving shipping info they will side with you. Once they do forward a copy to Ebay customer service and they should be able to remove any negative feedback this buyer might leave. I hope this helps.
regards
indiej12

[cottonwoodindustries]

The "APPEAL" process does works. But in my case it was a charge back.

However, I DID NOT initiate the appeal, actually PAYPAL did. And they did this, because I had provided enough information for them to go ahead on my behalf.

What happen is, I bombarded paypal with so much information about the case throughout the dispute from the very day it was initiated by the buyer from the UK.

I lost the 1st part of the dispute because of the credit card company, which Paypal said was normal, but Paypal came back after the dispute was closed, and told me I had provided enough information for them to fight the decision on my behalf....which they did.

Hope that helps....Loré