eBay

jeff6372 · ‎07-14-2020

I bought some Michelin Bicycle tires that are except from the PST here in British Columbia Canada, and even though there is no specific break down what exactly adds up the import charges from Pitney Bowes, after calculating the total of the GST and PST, it well exceeds what I was charged for.

This also takes into account of any processing fees from Pitney Bowes.

How, where and which branch of Pitney Bowes do I contact to request a refund for the PST that should not have been charged ?

Here is a link to a bulletin that was revised in June of 2016 that clearly states that parts of a bicycle (including the tires) are except from the PST.

https://www2.gov.bc.ca/assets/gov/taxes/sales-taxes/publications/pst-204-bicycles-tricycles.pdf

marnotom! · ‎07-14-2020

For what it's worth, my experience as a fellow resident of British Columbia is that the GSP doesn't factor in the PST in its import charges for anything.

I'm looking at a listing for a Michelin Power Endurance tire selling for US$51.20. The import charges are US$6.78. Take 5% GST (US$2.56) off those import charges and you're left with a surplus of US$4.22, which seems an extremely reasonable amount to go towards customs clearance, rubber stamping, processing, whatever else you want to call it.

Without being able to see the listing of what you've purchased, I can't make any sort of call as to the nature of your import charges, but if your seller listed the tires in the wrong category, that may affect the import charges. The GSP bot's ability to calculate import charges is only as good as the information the seller provides in the listing.

jeff6372 · ‎07-14-2020

Calculating the exchange rates from the screen shot from my PayPal account, I was over charged the PST of 17.72$ Canadian dollars.

It is mail fraud to charge someone a tax they should not have been charged, especially since in the declaration in was marked as "Michelin Pro 4 Service Course 700 x 20c, Folding Tyre -Black".

What else would that be other then a bicycle tire ?

That leaves 12.62 for the GST and 4.97 for handling charges and paperwork, so that is about right, but the fact still remains that I was charged the PST when I should not have been and want the option to be to have that money returned.

If it was shipped through Royal Mail/Canada Post, there would have been a declaration form from Canada Customs on the parcel stating what the specific charges were, plus on the back of said charges, a claim form disputing any charge and an address to send the dispute to so one can include the necessary paper work to support a given claim.

I have taken other screen shots, but the page will only allow me to post one photo.

The photo best represents the actual charges.

And yes, the seller did list it in the correct category "Sporting Goods > Cycling > Bicycle Tires. Tubes & Wheels > Tires".

So if Pitney Bowes bases the tax on the description, then I should have not been charged the PST.

I'll give them the benefit of the doubt for now that they made a mistake and not a blatant charge of the collection of the PST.

jeff6372 · ‎07-14-2020

Also, the title should have read "Another Pitney Bowes Problem and PST Charged", not GST.

Here is also the screen shot of the charges after putting the items as I did in the shopping cart.

lady.stark · ‎07-14-2020

Is it possible that the surcharge you see is in fact the domestic shipping cost of the seller to KY?

To know that, you can go to the listing and choose USA as the destination country with zip code 90210.

jeff6372 · ‎07-14-2020

No, doing that just yields a shipping charge of 23.93 £ to the US, which is way far from 17.72

It was sent Royal Mail at the beginning of it's journey and then handed over to DHL with in the UK, the closest thing to a US destination was the DHL hub in Cincinnati in Ohio.

It passed through customs there, but there were no charges leveed.

It never went to KY (Kentucky)

I know this because, if there was, DHL would not have released the parcel.

I also know this because I deal with DHL all the time shipping car parts out of the UK, and they won't release anything until they get paid.

Here is another screen shot of the DHL tracking.

If Pitney Bowes would just itemize the actual charges, none of us would be guessing on what the specific charges are, but at the moment, it's acceptable to assume that I was charged the PST when I should not have been.

15westcoast · ‎07-14-2020

Don't know why Canadians keep buying from sellers who are on the Global Shipping Program.

Nothing but problems and delays. Many posts have been on here about the GSP. You can try and

contact the seller and see if he will ship other than the GSP. Some sellers have no

idea how to do this or were not even aware that they are on the GSP. I never buy anything from

GSP sellers as they penalize out of the country buyers.

marnotom! · ‎07-14-2020

So if I’m understanding you correctly, you’re concerned about the £14.52 in import charges you had to pay on top of the £8.10 that would have gone to GST.

That “extra” would have gone towards various estimated customs processing fees and quite frankly doesn’t seem unreasonable to me for an item sent from the UK by a means other than directly by the seller by a combination of Royal Mail and Canada Post. Yes, Canada Post would charge you about half that if CBSA assessed taxes on it, but goods and services are generally pricier in the UK than in Canada.

I’m also wondering if an estimate for duty was included in the import charges. Are bicycle tyres (See what I did there? 😁) dutiable?

pjcdn2005 · ‎07-14-2020

According to a site that I found, duty on an assembled bike wheel is 6.5% and no duty if it is not assembled. I don't know if the system is set up to distinguish between the two so it's possible that it always charge the 6.5%. If you add that on to gst and to the PB handling charge, that should work out close to what you paid.

As far as contacting PB to get back an 'over payment', they say right in their user agreement that you agree to the charges when you make the purchase. They will not break it down for you now and refund part of it.

https://terminalcityriders.ca/articles/importing-bikes-and-parts-to-canada/

(diclaimer...I don't have much time so only read a small part of this article..my apologies if I missed something)

marnotom! · ‎07-14-2020

I found that page, too, @pjcdn2005, and while it was interesting I don't think it really covered the subject of bicycle tires shipped on their own, which to me would be something different than an unassembled wheel. But what do I know?

I did find a duty calculator that was kinda dealt with bicycle parts and I tried to plug in enough information for a bicycle tire manufactured in France and with what I provided the bot came up with a duty figure of 6.1%.

It's important to remember that with GSP items, we're not actually paying the taxes and duty owed on the item; Pitney Bowes is. The import charges are just a repayment to Pitney Bowes of what they're on record of having paid, and they're an estimate. Just like what I got from the guy I hired to re-roof my house in the fall. He gave me an itemized list of what he's going to do with my house's roof, but there's no charges associated with the items on the list and nothing mentioned about labour, just a big estimate on the bottom of the page.

jeff6372 · ‎07-14-2020

Well, I guess I will contact Canada customs then.

And it's the principal of the thing, that 17 dollars and change is better in my pocket then in Canada customs.

What gets me is that if Canada Customs keeps charging people for things they shouldn't, then how much in year is that ?

Canada Customs have never done me any favours, and they don't follow their own rules, click on the link earlier in the thread.

Yes, it doesn't come right and say bicycle tire, but it does say Michelin Pro4 700 x 20c foldable tire, if PB and Canada customs can't figure out that, that is not a bicycle tire, then they are pretty dense.

What car tire or motor bile tire is foldable and only 20mm wide ?!

And about Canadians buying from sellers that use GSP, those tires are not made anymore in that size, only one other manufacturer makes that size, Continental, and they are terrible tires, they pinch flat almost right away.

20cc tires are the only size that fit on the rear of my Hotta time trial bike, other wise I would have gone some place else.

When the source dries up, I'm not sure what I'm going to do.

23cc tires will fit, but there is pretty much no clearance.

Bringing this here seems to be a waste time, I will call PB and then Canada Customs and see what they can do.

And about my time wasted over 17 bucks, I have lots of time to waste being hooked up to a dialysis machine for 4 hours 3 times week.

marnotom! · ‎07-14-2020

Calling CBSA is going to be a pointless exercise.

When you purchase an item that's going to be forwarded to Canada through the Global Shipping Program, a bot calculates the import charges based on the information the seller provides on the item, including the category in which the item is listed. These charges include GST/HST, clearance fees, a little "pad" to cover shortages in case of error, and a potential laundry list of other customs and processing charges. The "bot" doesn't know for sure what's going to be charged from that laundry list. It just estimates these charges based on whatever's been coded into its functions.

When you item is received at the Global Shipping Center/Centre, a human being sits down and ticks off the necessary boxes and figures out what it's actually going to set back Pitney Bowes (or its contracted agent) to have this item go through customs, and then Pitney Bowes pays that amount to CBSA and whoever else needs to be paid on your behalf. You don't actually pay taxes or duty. You pay "import charges" not "import duties and taxes". This shift in wording is subtle but important. Whatever is surplus to that payment, Pitney Bowes gets to keep, not CBSA.

It's not a perfect system, but any system that relies on a bot with limited capacity to work things out for an item that nobody but the seller is able to see is going to mess up occasionally. Given the costs and paperwork involved in importing items, I don't think seventeen loonies is an onerous premium to pay, especially compared to international courier charges. I'm still not clear on whether a bicycle tire would be subject to duty as well as GST, however.

jeff6372 · ‎07-14-2020

Here's the link again, it clearly states that the PST is not charged on bicycle parts and tires are listed.

The sellers listing clearly says bicycle tires in the listing, and if their automated machine can't figure that out, then it's broken, or someone forgot to enter the information into the machine correctly.

We don't have HST here in BC, we have PST (provincial sale tax) and GST (goods and service tax)

You seem to know more about this then most here, do you work for PB or Canada Customs ?

And I didn't ask the seller to send it DHL, it just happened that way, and the shipping was way over priced for just for 6 tires that can individually be folded up in a box no more then 3 inches square.

The six tires were shipped in shoe box and cost nearly 50 £, that's expensive shipping !

https://www2.gov.bc.ca/assets/gov/taxes/sales-taxes/publications/pst-204-bicycles-tricycles.pdf

femmefan1946 · ‎07-14-2020

"Michelin Pro 4 Service Course 700 x 20c, Folding Tyre -Black".

Personally, I would have had no idea without a picture. Particularly considering the British spelling seen by a minimum wage clerk in Kentucky.

This is why the newish Harmonised codes for international shipping were introduced. Bike tires are 40114090. Did your seller use that?

In any case, you did not technically pay any duty or tax.

What you paid was a fee to Pitney Bowes/GSP which they used to cover the applicable Canadian duty, sales taxes and a service fee.
PB/GSP paid those fees. It is they who paid too much and they who, if anyone would be refunded.

You could contact PB and ask for a refund. If you don't ask they can't say yes.

femmefan1946 · ‎07-14-2020

Ooops, purchased from the UK.

Change "minimum wage clerk in Kentucky" to "15 year old school leaver in Essex".

Otherwise, you are not the importer of record, PB/GSP is, and you have no grounds for dispute.

lady.stark · ‎07-14-2020

Oh... I didn't realise your item was coming from the UK. Usually, when people talk about GSP, it's coming from the US (yes, I know the UK has it too, but I rarely see people talk about it here). So of course, my previous message does not apply to your case. Although it could still be the domestic charge to the UK hub.

marnotom! · ‎07-14-2020

@jeff6372 wrote:

Here's the link again, it clearly states that the PST is not charged on bicycle parts and tires are listed.

The sellers listing clearly says bicycle tires in the listing, and if their automated machine can't figure that out, then it's broken, or someone forgot to enter the information into the machine correctly.

We don't have HST here in BC, we have PST (provincial sale tax) and GST (goods and service tax)

I'm in BC, too (just a few hours north of you, in fact). I know about BC PST. I also know that the GSP doesn't add BC PST to its calculation of import charges.

What likely made up a good portion of your import charges is GST and duty.

Duty is a surcharge or tariff placed on a good that is manufactured outside of the country in which it is being sold. Most items manufactured in the United States and Mexico are free of duty thanks to free trade deals. Some items manufactured in countries other than the US and Mexico will get duties slapped on them.

You may find this online article of interest:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/what-you-need-to-know-about-bicycle-tariffs-1.507138...

Based on the quick-ish but frustrating bit of online research I did, I think a duty charge of around 6% might have been applied to your bicycle tire's import charges. @pjcdn2005 has come to a similar conclusion. This is something different from PST.

When you purchase something from a brick and mortar merchant, duty will have been applied to the importer's or merchant's cost of purchasing it. You will not see it on your receipt. When you purchase something online, you may have to pay duty in addition to tax(es) on it.

@jeff6372 wrote:

You seem to know more about this then most here, do you work for PB or Canada Customs ?

I used to work in brick and mortar retail selling some items directly imported by my employer. My wife and I purchase a fair bit of imported material. I'm an educated consumer who believes that knowledge is power. 😁

reallynicestamps · ‎07-14-2020

There is also the question of Free Trade Agreements.

Are the tires made in the European Union? I think of Michelin as a French brand, but they could be made anywherr.

Under CETA there would be no duty on a product made in the EU, and I guess at the moment purchased from the UK which is still in the throes of Brexit.
But if they are made in China, or Kenya, or India, and imported to the EU/UK there would be duty.

In any case, you paid neither duty nor sales taxes. You paid a fee to GSP to pay those for you. If they charged you too much, they keep the overage. If they charge you too little, they are out of pocket.

Your part is to look at the import fees and decide if the bottom line is acceptable, then pay or do not pay.

jeff6372 · ‎07-14-2020

OK...

Yes, there is no duty with items imported into Canada from the EU.

There is a long list of all the countries that are in the EU, you can Google it to find out.

All Michelin bicycle tires that I have ever come across are always made in France, you pay for quality and it says so right on the tire.

The factory is in France and I believe, no where else.

The full retail price for those tires when new from a brick and mortar store are from 100 to 140 bucks Can, so not made in China.

Although technically speaking I suppose one could have expensive tires made in China, but I would never buy them if they were.

marnotom! · ‎07-14-2020

@jeff6372 wrote:

Yes, there is no duty with items imported into Canada from the EU.
There is a long list of all the countries that are in the EU, you can Google it to find out.

All Michelin bicycle tires that I have ever come across are always made in France, you pay for quality and it says so right on the tire.
The factory is in France and I believe, no where else.

And this gets back to my earlier point about the GSP bot's calculations being only as good as the information that the seller is going to provide. The bot can't see what's on the tire. The bot will be referring to information provides in the "item specifics" section in the listing, and if the seller doesn't provide information on the tire's country of manufacture, it's going to add a calculation for duty on the import charges in order to cover Pitney Bowes' ass(ets).

If the Global Shipping Centre employee manages to find information on the tire's country of manufacture while processing the shipment, then Pitney Bowes won't pay it. Otherwise, the country of manufacturer will be recorded as "unknown" and CBSA will get a duty payment from Pitney Bowes.

(By the way, my first SUV had Michelin LTX-MSs on them, and, yes, they were darned good tires.)