Comments about the Global Shipping Program

[kalvin@ebay.com]

Feel free to share your thoughts about the Global Shipping Program here. 

A few questions to get the ball rolling:

• What has worked well for you with the Global Shipping Program?
• Any ideas to help improve the experience for Canadian buyers?
• What has deterred you from buying items offered using the Global Shipping Program?
• How have you managed to search for items outside the program?

Please try & keep the comments constructive 🙂

If you have any questions about the program, please post them here.

[marnotom!]

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@beatom72 wrote:

I purchased AN EMPTY CARDBOARD BOX! ( yes on purpose). And was charged 6.98 import charges. I happen to know that That is a steaming pile of ...... I checked with Canada boarder services and was informed that there are no duties on empty boxes. ( they thought I was nuts a first). Both my wife and I have been using ebay for along time. But from now on we will only buy from sellers within Canada. I refuse to take part in ebays money making scam any longer. There are many other places to shop. I have even purchased much the same items from other sites and guess what? No duties, import or otherwise. Ever head of NAFTA EBAY? Maybe look it up.

I guess this will help the Canadian sellers :).

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Ever heard of GST?  A fifty dollar box is subject to GST (or PST or HST, depending on your province or territory).  That's part of what those import charges went toward, plus various import/export processing charges which are described (somewhat) on the GSP terms and conditions page which is linked to on all GSP listing pages.  Maybe read it sometime.

[marnotom!]

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@villagetime wrote:

I live in Canada and importing antiques is duty free, so why would I be interested in paying two shipping charges. To me this program is a money grab, and deters me from buying items listed under global shipping. Can a seller drop the program if the buyer requests it.

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I don't follow your logic.  Yes, antiques are duty-free.  (They're still subject to sales tax, though.)  What does this have to do with paying two shipping charges?

You can ask the seller if they can relist the item without the GSP, or you can ask the seller to calculate what it would cost to ship the item directly to you through the postal system and send you a PayPal invoice after the listing closes.  (This seems to be the only way to circumvent the GSP auto-invoicing system.)

I think it would be a bit presumptuous to ask the seller to drop the program entirely from all their listings just to accommodate your request.

Keep in mind that heavier items may actually ship less expensively through the GSP than through the postal system and the total cost may work out cheaper even with taxes due factored in.  Compare these two listings for the same item at almost the same price:

http://www.ebay.ca/itm//321293485711

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/251365980862

[rick31797]

villagetime wrote:

I live in Canada and importing antiques is duty free, so why would I be interested in paying two shipping charges. To me this program is a money grab, and deters me from buying items listed under global shipping. Can a seller drop the program if the buyer requests it.

You can ask the seller if you purchase the item will they send you a invoice with cost of item and shipping charge and bypass the GSP, as you don't agree with the program , he/she will  either say yes or no..but i did get one more answer one time..

A seller said that he was going to report me to Ebay for asking ,as if it was illegal, so there are some seller's out there that think GSP is the Ebay Law.

[arlene_v]

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@pierrelebel wrote:

Speak to that same person again and specify "gold filled watch".  See what happens!

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Pierre, I spoke to a CBSA agent this morning (not the same one as last week, though) asking about this particular watch as per your advice.

I was told that there would be no duty on this watch because it was a)made in the US and b)qualified as an antique if over 100 years old ..

When I raised the issue of the gold fill I was transferred to a "senior agent" .

That agent  emphatically stated  that any watch, imported for personal use, whether antique or not, that's  made in the USA is exempt from "the 5% duty" under NAFTA.

 BTW, I never mentioned 5% to her.  

If anyone wishes to verify this info please feel free to phone the CBSA.  I am only reporting what I have been told by two agents at the CBSA. 

They are also pretty insistent that most items imported for personal use are exempt from duty under NAFTA if they were manufactured in the US ....  I have now spoken to three agents over the past week, and it seems the calculator on their site is the one to trust. 

Of course relevant tax such as HST/GST/PST must be calculated on items that qualify valued at over $20. This is not at issue.

To me, such inconsistencies as this watch provide further evidence to avoid GSP listings, and to have items assessed for duty, taxes etc  by agents trained to do so here in Canada, and should there be any dispute to be able to seek recourse as well. 

[pierrelebel]

"That agent  emphatically stated  that any watch, imported for personal use, whether antique or not, that's  made in the USA is exempt from "the 5% duty" under NAFTA."

I am glad you called CBSA.

And the answer you received from that "senior agent" confirms what most of us have learned over the last few months discussing the subject: much is open to interpretation. "antique" was irrelevant to that agent.  Others have stated "antique" does make a difference (although we do not know if the watch was in fact technically more than 100 years old as the listing stated pre-1920).

Since some well respected internet sites claim there is a 5% duty on the gold filled watch, should we "assume" (we all know the meaning of the word) that those sites are wrong?

And I expect the same problem (difference of opinion as to whether duty should be charged or not on some items) may exist when Canada Customs clearance is prepared by agents such as UPS, Fed-Ex and similar operations (in addition to Pitney-Bowes).

Not much can be done about it - until eBay changes its current policy and opens up the information flow.

[rick31797]

And the answer you received from that "senior agent" confirms what most of us have learned over the last few months discussing the subject: much is open to interpretation. "antique" was irrelevant to that agent.  Others have stated "antique" does make a difference (although we do not know if the watch was in fact technically more than 100 years old as the listing stated pre-1920).

She had 3 agents state there is no duty on the watch , i think that's a pretty good assurance that there is not..and her information is correct.

[arlene_v]

Rick, yes three agents have all said the same thing ... in a pleasant and professional manner. There has been no hesitation on their part. As I say I trust their word over that of PBI or an online commercial calculator from the UK. 

I've been doing further research on the issue of duty on US  made cotton t-shirts which was discussed in an earlier post, and found this site which is most interesting.

http://www.canadianimporter.ca/imports-dutiable/

The author - who has had experience as an importer for over 30 years - indicates they are duty free under NAFTA.

[rick31797]

In your response pierrelebel sugar coated his reply, making it sound like, if you call CBSA and talk to several different agents, it would be up to there interpretation and could likely get 3 different answers,this is what it sounds like he is saying , we know this is not true.

[arlene_v]

Rick I am a great believer in  not trusting much I read online. 

I'm  a librarian and enjoy doing research. This is fun for me. 

[rick31797]

I agree Arlene, you impress me with your vigour to get to the truth, we need more like you in Canada.

[mater721]

It may not technically be a “scam”.  IMO it can be considered more of price-gouging. An intermediary has been introduced, and intermediaries drive up costs because they do not provide a service for free.  Example is listing 111256070882. Bid price of $19.99 US triggers a GSP cost of $8.06.  That’s an $8 fee I have never had to pay before.  CBS never charges duties on items of this low a value.  The extra $1 in value ($19 to $20) drives up my cost by $8?  Ebay has now ensured that all listings in this program drive up cost to Canadian buyers, putting us at a disadvantage compared to US buyers.

What was the driving force behind this program? I honestly cannot believe it was Canadian buyers requesting this to "make shopping easier". The 2nd and third paragraph of the GSP description made me laugh.

Here’s an analogy – Photo radar.  It’s usefulness can be debated as really a tax.  It does not stop dangerous driving – just adds a tax for later. Question – when you occasionally exceed the posted limits while driving an auto do you A) hope that a traffic enforcement officer did not notice or B) immediately cut a cheque to the local government to pay for the fine you should have received.  GSP is kind of like option B.

I have a separate question apart from my rant above. For postings with 2 prices – bid price/ buy now (321296056526) $14.99/$24.99 shows GSP cost of $9.21.  What happens if bid ends at $17.00.  How is it shipped and is there a GSP charge? Is PB not involved?  I can’t imagine they do any shipping and do it for free.

[pierrelebel]

I love to do research too.

I took a look at the Canada Customs duty/tax calculator: http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/travel-voyage/dte-acl/est-cal-eng.html

If I enter $100 value for food - bread (or vegetable, or whatever) with Ontario as province, manufactured under NAFTA, I get $13.00 duty/tax.  If I enter $1,000, I get $130 tax.

I am confused.  Why is the calculator charging 13% tax (HST presumably) on basic groceries?

If I move to Alberta (it is so easy to move on the Internet) CBSA now wants 5% tax (GST).  Does any of that make any sense to you?

Should I trust that calculator?

[walker0017]

Pierre

The reason for the tax difference between Ontario and Alberta is that Alberta is the only province that does not have PST.

[marnotom!]

Rick and Arlene, I think you're missing Pierre's point.

The way I see it, both treatments of the 5% duty/luxury tax on gold-filled antiques are likely technically "correct" as there likely isn't anything in NAFTA or the FTA that specifically exempts them from that specific duty.  What we're looking at are two perfectly valid interpretations of when that 5% duty should and shouldn't be applied.

And as Pierre suggested earlier, as long as there are entities out there that can process items through customs besides Canada Border Services, you're going to see differences in the interpretation of areas where there are loopholes or conditions not specifically spelt out.

And you can bet that outfits contracted to do customs clearance are going to err on the side of caution whenever possible.  You don't want the feds coming down on you like a tonne of bricks for doing "sloppy" work and not charging taxes and duties that were supposed to be charged on a shipment.

[arlene_v]

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@pierrelebel wrote:

I love to do research too.

I took a look at the Canada Customs duty/tax calculator: http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/travel-voyage/dte-acl/est-cal-eng.html

If I enter $100 value for food - bread (or vegetable, or whatever) with Ontario as province, manufactured under NAFTA, I get $13.00 duty/tax.  If I enter $1,000, I get $130 tax.

I am confused.  Why is the calculator charging 13% tax (HST presumably) on basic groceries?

If I move to Alberta (it is so easy to move on the Internet) CBSA now wants 5% tax (GST).  Does any of that make any sense to you?

Should I trust that calculator?

_______________________________________________________________________________________________

Not a single part of it makes sense to me but I suggest if you have a question you phone the CBSA and ask them, I have found them to be extremely friendly and knowledgeable. 

What do you make of the info I posted about the cotton t-shirts? I am curious to get your input on that? Not sure if it is trustworthy or not? Maybe I will phone CBSA and ask them directly.

[kxeron]

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@pierrelebel wrote:

Since some well respected internet sites claim there is a 5% duty on the gold filled watch, should we "assume" (we all know the meaning of the word) that those sites are wrong?

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In my experience as an information technology professional, website calculators and guidelines (including the ones on eBay itself!) often are not vetted by an authority before they are put into production by someone trying to be helpful. 99% of calculators and guides on the Internet are developed by individuals or organizations utilizing their interpretations of documentation released by authorities. Often times those sites can have a highly-rated track record and then there's exceptions that they didn't include in their programming logic, but are included by the authority in the official process or vice versa (in this case: the CBSA doesn't care gold is included while calculators and guides have logic of "Is gold included? if yes, automatically 5% duty").

This is why eBay's shipping calculator and in extension the GSP processing has so many complaints of being inaccurate or awkward in comparison to official postal calculators because eBay develops its own software — interpretations of figures provided by CBSA, postal/shipping companies, etc.

This is why there must be a method to challenge the software's output and a means for full information to be available for consumers to say "Wait, there's a problem here with what the computer charged me", otherwise taking output by software as if it's the word of a diety will lead you to spend money you don't need to spend. It's why bugs in software at stock markets can send a company's worth way down because the traders trust the software completely without question.

[arlene_v]

Just a point of clarification: gold filled does not mean solid gold. It means it is gold plated to a certain standard. 

[arlene_v]

Hi Marno!

When it comes to taxes and duty I prefer to trust my own government agency than have this outsourced to my disadvantage 100% of the time. 

I will simply repeat what I said earlier.

Such inconsistencies lead me to avoid the GSP. 

I would advise others to do likewise. 

[pierrelebel]

"When it comes to taxes and duty I prefer to trust my own government agency"

I agree in principal.

However, how do you explain that same agency telling us there is 13% tax in Ontario (HST) and 5% tax (GST) on basic food when we all know basic grocery (bread, vegetables, etc) are GST/HST tax exempt?

[marnotom!]

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@mater721 wrote:

It may not technically be a “scam”.  IMO it can be considered more of price-gouging. An intermediary has been introduced, and intermediaries drive up costs because they do not provide a service for free.  Example is listing 111256070882. Bid price of $19.99 US triggers a GSP cost of $8.06.  That’s an $8 fee I have never had to pay before.  CBS never charges duties on items of this low a value.  The extra $1 in value ($19 to $20) drives up my cost by $8?  Ebay has now ensured that all listings in this program drive up cost to Canadian buyers, putting us at a disadvantage compared to US buyers.

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Canada Border Services may not bother charging taxes (don't forget taxes) and duty on an item worth just over C$20, but it doesn't mean that the item isn't subject to those charges.  Don't forget, it's not Canada Border Services doing the rubber-stamping and processing the import/export clearance on a GSP item but a private sector firm, and you can bet that they're not going to risk losing their licence to do this by not collecting and remitting taxes and duties due on an item barely above the tax/duty-free limit for a personal import sent by mail or commercial carrier.  That limit's there for a reason.

Also don't forget that in those instances where Canada Border Services does collect taxes/duty due on a postal import, Canada Post also collects a C$9.95 processing fee.  In the example you provided, it's pretty obvious that what the GSP collects for processing is less than that.  I don't call that price-gouging in the context of the listing you've provided.  It's a pretty small piece of pie considering all the different fingers that are in it.

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@mater721 wrote:

I have a separate question apart from my rant above. For postings with 2 prices – bid price/ buy now (321296056526) $14.99/$24.99 shows GSP cost of $9.21.  What happens if bid ends at $17.00.  How is it shipped and is there a GSP charge? Is PB not involved?  I can’t imagine they do any shipping and do it for free.

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Pitney Bowes will still be involved in the shipment.  Generally speaking, items that are below the C$20 threshold have $4 or so of charges added to the shipping charge to cover import/export related costs so it looks as though there are no import charges on the item.  

I've only seen one screenshot of a PayPal invoice or transaction details involving the GSP and I can't remember if the shipping and import charges were broken down.  The worst case scenario I can think of that might happen with that item if it sells to a Canadian buyer is that the shipping price increases by $4 or so but no "import charges" get added on as a separate line item.

Actually, I guess it could be even worse and a glitch would allow the import charges showing for the BIN price be charged even though the item sold for less than C$20.  

Even though the GSP has been around for over a year, there are still a lot of questions that are only really being answered through the guinea pigs using it.