Comments about the Global Shipping Program

[kalvin@ebay.com]

Feel free to share your thoughts about the Global Shipping Program here. 

A few questions to get the ball rolling:

• What has worked well for you with the Global Shipping Program?
• Any ideas to help improve the experience for Canadian buyers?
• What has deterred you from buying items offered using the Global Shipping Program?
• How have you managed to search for items outside the program?

Please try & keep the comments constructive 🙂

If you have any questions about the program, please post them here.

[marnotom!]

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@arlene_v wrote:

Marnotom! read this ..

http://sbinfocanada.about.com/od/pst/a/PSTecommerce.htm

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That's actually the page I found that linked me to the page about BC.

Giving that page a bit more of a read, it would seem that at least two provinces have loosey-goosey conditions like British Columbia does.  Manitoba has the condition that the website must target Manitobians specificially through advertising, and Saskatchewan puts on the onus on the buyer to remit the tax if the merchant doesn't.

[ragsn_old_iron]

The essence of my post is that more effort needs to be done to educate sellers on the terms of the GSP otherwise revenue will fall for eBay and sellers will be receiving negative feedback undeservedly for their efforts.  I know the terms the seller thought they were selling an item to me under, and also that they had know idea whatsoever they were participating in a "GSP" program.  I have since communicated with two more sellers to correct their listing terms so they did not fall victim to this scheme as well should I win the item(s) and they are very thankful to learn about this "program" and its caveats before it was too late. 

border trade.  If I am going to be taxed, I want the taxes to go to my country's revenue (exchange differential), and if I pay for an item or a service as it is described by the seller in specific response to my questions, then I expect the item and that service in no other way.  Should some fourth party intervene and change the item, or the service, and/or divert revenue from the intended parties (Government of Canada) then I become concerned. 

This is my second and last post on the topic as I have pursued more tangible avenues of investigation, but I did feel a need to declare that this "program" will cause harm to an otherwise reasonable business proposition that has garnered the most trust of any auctioning service in the world.  In terms of "the item", it did not cost me anymore than if CBSA processed it, and I didn't mind not signing for it, and the two week delay is a travesty that no "force majeure" could possibly explain but no harm was done save for the fact that the seller surrendered all their agency in the process as the terms were changed. 

[ragsn_old_iron]

I believe some eBay buyers have a PayPal account, and sometimes this account has a verified shipping address.  Maybe what somebody might have been thinking is that the tax laws should be obeyed and the importer/buyer pays according the jurisdiction they reside in, which is presumably where the item(s) are going to be shipped to; these would be under the good old "import of goods for personal use" category.  In Canada we have this agency, it is called the Canada Border Services Agency (CBSA), and they do that kind of stuff for every territory and province, and then they transfer the collected revenue through this other agency (CRA) to ensure that the funds go to the appropriated jurisdictions.  But maybe not many people on eBay have verified addresses or PayPal accounts to determine where a thing is going, but to the idea that items for personal use are excised/taxed and/or otherwise by the port of entry is inaccurate at best, so possibility and correlation is not even relevant.

[arlene_v]

Amazon, a large online site, charges provincial/retail tax for the provinces you mention, as well as the other non-HST provinces. 

To answer another poster's query, I have no idea why Sask is not mentioned on Amazon. 

I am using Amazon as an example of a comparable on line site,  and what they charge,  which is written in plain language for all buyers to see. 

Marnotom! I would prefer a MOD to answer my question rather than you attempting to do so.

I appreciate your efforts, but PBI and eBay, have crafted this program, and are responsible to us to provide answers, and they should be the ones supplying factual info.

Not posters on a community board, speculating. 

I would very much like to know why ALL of the non-hst provinces are exempt from provincial taxes under GSP purchases. 

[afantiques]

Why no Saskatchewan PST of 5% in the Amazon link above?

No-one but Canadians can spell Saswatchian or whatever it is.

[arlene_v]

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@afantiques wrote:

Why no Saskatchewan PST of 5% in the Amazon link above?

No-one but Canadians can spell Saswatchian or whatever it is.

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So true ..that's why I  use Sask ... I  wasn't born here, so don't even attempt to spell it in full.

[pocomocomputing]

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@arlene_v wrote:

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@afantiques wrote:

Why no Saskatchewan PST of 5% in the Amazon link above?

No-one but Canadians can spell Saswatchian Saskatchewan or whatever it is.

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So true ..that's why I  use Sask ... I  wasn't born here, so don't even attempt to spell it in full. 

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When I was a child in the early 60's, spelling was important. We had tests on the provinces and capitals and how to spell each one properly. It went on for several lower and middle grades the same tests. Repetition is the key to learning some things like that.

It has nothing to do with being born there, lol.

[arlene_v]

I clearly remember similar lessons  when I was a schoolgirl in the 1970s in a dusty classroom in South Africa. Geography and spelling!

I would find myself dreaming about going somewhere ..anywhere other than being on the southern tip of what seemed a very dreary continent. 

Unfortunately, we never covered Canadian provinces or capitals in any of those lessons (at least not that I can recall) 

So I rely on Sask.! 

[pocomocomputing]

South Africa, lol. Bet I can't spell Johanesburg -- darn, it is Johannesburg missed by an n, lol.

I always had trouble spelling the USA state of Massachusetts, lol.

[kxeron]

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@ragsn_old_iron wrote:

The essence of my post is that more effort needs to be done to educate sellers on the terms of the GSP otherwise revenue will fall for eBay and sellers will be receiving negative feedback undeservedly for their efforts.  I know the terms the seller thought they were selling an item to me under, and also that they had know idea whatsoever they were participating in a "GSP" program.  I have since communicated with two more sellers to correct their listing terms so they did not fall victim to this scheme as well should I win the item(s) and they are very thankful to learn about this "program" and its caveats before it was too late. 

border trade.  If I am going to be taxed, I want the taxes to go to my country's revenue (exchange differential), and if I pay for an item or a service as it is described by the seller in specific response to my questions, then I expect the item and that service in no other way.  Should some fourth party intervene and change the item, or the service, and/or divert revenue from the intended parties (Government of Canada) then I become concerned. 

This is my second and last post on the topic as I have pursued more tangible avenues of investigation, but I did feel a need to declare that this "program" will cause harm to an otherwise reasonable business proposition that has garnered the most trust of any auctioning service in the world.  In terms of "the item", it did not cost me anymore than if CBSA processed it, and I didn't mind not signing for it, and the two week delay is a travesty that no "force majeure" could possibly explain but no harm was done save for the fact that the seller surrendered all their agency in the process as the terms were changed. 

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Thank you for this very clear and correct post — I too believe many of the same as PBI essentially hijacks the transaction and bills the buyer in a way the seller can't immediately know about and as well, there's no definitive documented proof remitted to the buyer that the buyer's money in full makes it to the Canadian Government. If you get billed for COD, there's nothing you can fax a PBI receipt to someone at CBSA or the courier, basically saying "I paid this service already, go collect it from PBI".

Unfortunately posts like these are outspoken by the likes of "If you don't like paying the import charges using the GSP, you're a tax evader", "It's all there in the T&Cs", "Read this FAQ", or arguements about minor semantics so on and so forth but no real calls for accountability from PBI and eBay themselves in the matter. All of this essentially turns this thread into a cacophony of noise and repeated content. If anything, all the problems have already have been discussed. At this point action must be discussed to coordinate and collaborate on how to either eliminate the programme or to bring it into consumer protection norms. But no, there are still arguments about tax rates, what you should be owing and so forth while other shipping and logistics companies don't have this problem. This is a fundamental problem with the GSP as a programme, not with logistics or where it's imported to. If the GSP collects an import charge calculated at a specific rate, it will do so regardless and completely ignorant to where the package enters the country. The GSP has been grossly over-simplified in design and that's where it fails because shipping and importation fees are much more complex than just charging a set formula for everywhere.

I would be interested however in hearing more about your more definitive efforts and would like to contribute my voice to whomever you're issuing complaints or calls for investigation to as well.

[kxeron]

I would just like to follow-up to myself:

Basically at this point, we can discuss law, procedure and what the CBSA does until we're all collectively on our deathbeds, but the onus for the GSP's calculation falls soley upon PBI and eBay.

• PBI for administering an grossly over-simplified programme that believes that one size-fits all for all countries and cultures.
• eBay for having the eBay website software grossly over-simplified for something that is indeed a complex calculation.

So again, we can discuss tax rates, who you owe, what you owe, what the speculated breakdowns are and so forth, but at the end of the day it is soley eBay and PBI that create the GSP's formulas and regardless of economical changes, if the the cost of shipping were to become suddenly free internationally for all shipping companies, the GSP would still calculate what the software has been programmed to calculate and would do so inaccurately because of the gross over-simplification.

As I've said again and again, the GSP's formula isn't about "tax" or "duty", it's about creating a lumpsum "import charge" that only PBI (as the programme administrator) and eBay (as the maintainer of the website code that manages the GSP's calculations) knows the mathematic logic flow behind. I doubt there has been a Canadian auditor yet through the eBay website code and formulae to determine if it is doing what it is designed to do correctly. I further doubt that the GSP and its operators has been fully audited by a non-US government yet.

There's a reason store receipts are itemized and this is a prime example of such.

[pjcdn2005]

Arlene, both of those examples are about shipping from within Canada. I wonder if the rules regarding pst are different if shipping is from outside of the country? 

Either way, I doubt that anyone from BC or other pst provinces is going to make a big deal out of not being charged pst. 🙂

I'm in Alberta btw so it doesn't affect me either way.

[pjcdn2005]

I tried to edit my post but I was too late. I realize that regardless where someone resides, the same rules should apply for all.

[arlene_v]

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@pjcdn2005 wrote:

Either way, I doubt that anyone from BC or other pst provinces is going to make a big deal out of not being charged pst. 🙂

I'm in Alberta btw so it doesn't affect me either way.

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I must admit I had a laugh at my own expense when I thought about this.

You're absolutely right, this is NO way to start a  revolution against the GSP in any of those provinces! What was I thinking!?! 

Finally, there might positive to all this, in certain parts of Canada, anyway! 

Oh well, back to regular programming! 

[micaylah]

I too will not buy from someone that uses this cash cow. And I state it on my Me Page. Plain and simple. It's too convoluted and vague. No transparency and I do believe that Sellers that opt into the program really don't have all of the answers either.

[femmefan1946]

Found this list on the Vintage Clothing Board on dotCOM

I don't use it. First Class International now has delivery confirmation to 26 countries. 

• Australia

• Belgium

• Brazil

• Canada

• Croatia

• Denmark

• Estonia

• Finland

• France

• Germany

• Gibraltar

• Hungary

• Israel

• Italy

• Latvia

• Lithuania

• Luxembourg

• Malaysia

• Malta

• Netherlands

• New Zealand

• Portugal

• Singapore

• Spain

• Switzerland

• UK

[summer_la]

I' no longer buying items from the USA using this Global Shipping Program.  This is bad as before this program I didn't have to pay custom fees.  This will kill your sales EBAY folks.  Does EBAY management folks reads these buyers and sellers comments...or they are too busy counting the cash generated by this GSP! 

[thetan6]

• I do not bid on/buy sellers items using GSP. The shipping charges are way too high, and the import fees are unacceptable as many items I have purchased in the past have no import fees nor duties/taxes when shipped personally by the seller.
• Eliminate the import fees, this seems like a cash grab for processing the order. Offer choices of shipping with buyers realizing that first class mail will not be insured or covered by the buyer protection program. Allow combined shipping on multiple wins from the same seller to save on shipping. Make sellers aware, prior to enrolling, that the paperwork to ship to Canada is not as difficult as some may think. Its pretty straight forward and simple to complete. Let sellers know that using the GSP may deter international sellers from bidding or buying. EBay/Pitney Bowes should work with the postal service to receive a discounted rate that can be passed along to the buyers, and remove the import fees.
• I will not even look at sellers others items if they are using the GSP as there are no savings when purchasing multiple items, as well, shipping fees combined with import fees on single items are ridiculous. I have seen $5 items have shipping fees of $30 and higher, with import fees....now why would anyone bid on an item that has a 600% markup with the shipping?  There are numerous items I would have gladly bid on, or bid higher than the price it sold for, had the shipping been more reasonable.
• When searching for items, I always look at the listed shipping cost before opening the listing. Generally, if the shipping is high, the seller is, 99% of the time, using GSP and I know there will usually be another charge aside from the shipping and item price. I view items with a reasonable shipping price listed.

[thetan6]

I should have included original post:

"Feel free to share your thoughts about the Global Shipping Program here. 
 
A few questions to get the ball rolling:
 
What has worked well for you with the Global Shipping Program?
Any ideas to help improve the experience for Canadian buyers?
What has deterred you from buying items offered using the Global Shipping Program?
How have you managed to search for items outside the program?"

[wine.n.beer]

Welcome to the new corporate world where the most docile , accepting and otherwise ignoramus is preferred.

Buy, pay and roll over when it's time but do not ask questions, do not.

If you do as this thread documents you will get answers but nothing will change.

I bought over 1000 items with three accounts and at this point ready to throw the towel.

Over 85% of the items I am interested in are infected with "GSP" disease; a form of corporate greed cancer. Thanks to ignorant, uninformed or just paranoid seller not able to do simple sensible shipping across border or load up with pitfalls likely to blow up to trigger issues.

But friends is us to blame, or did you agree on taxation because it is written on some paper,  and you were never asked to consent eh.

Stick your noses in those Freeman of the Land, OPPT or plain Common Law issues.

Grow up and empower yourself.

Learn and understand this fiction called "our" government which is nothing else like EBay, Pitney Bowes and the rest of them;  Corporations designed and setup to maximize profit.

Not for you but off you sheeples.

You voluntary enter into contract with EBay but that does no mean you are voiceless or forced.

Stop whining and do some thing about it....

Write a short letter to you seller like this:

to seller..

"  you list with GSP  ===> drives the cost up and no bids, sorry  "

seller answers:
" I'm not sure I understand? "

 explain to the seller:
"  you signed up with Global Shipping Program, check it out what you did not know and got hooked anyway (by default  not un-checking during listing)
http://community.ebay.ca/t5/Buyer-Central/Comments-about-the-Global-Shipping-Program/m-p/206533#U206...
or Youtube "GSP"  "

and you may get an eurika effect :
"Oh my goodness thank you so much for the info!! More sellers need to see this!! .... I need to change all of my items!"

Bingo....Ebay may not like it but they don't pay, you do friends.

so copy, edit or draft you own, but send them out.