Comments about the Global Shipping Program

[kalvin@ebay.com]

Feel free to share your thoughts about the Global Shipping Program here. 

A few questions to get the ball rolling:

• What has worked well for you with the Global Shipping Program?
• Any ideas to help improve the experience for Canadian buyers?
• What has deterred you from buying items offered using the Global Shipping Program?
• How have you managed to search for items outside the program?

Please try & keep the comments constructive 🙂

If you have any questions about the program, please post them here.

[lraetoll]

I'm definately not buying anything using GSP. I've not bought 3 things just this week and refused to bid on several others.
GSP is **bleep** for Canadian buyers.
I am now sending notes to every seller that I'm interested in, telling them that I will not buy from them using GSP.

[arlene_v]

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kxeron wrote:

. At this point action must be discussed to coordinate and collaborate on how to either eliminate the programme or to bring it into consumer protection norms. But no, there are still arguments about tax rates, what you should be owing and so forth while other shipping and logistics companies don't have this problem. This is a fundamental problem with the GSP as a programme, not with logistics or where it's imported to. If the GSP collects an import charge calculated at a specific rate, it will do so regardless and completely ignorant to where the package enters the country. The GSP has been grossly over-simplified in design and that's where it fails because shipping and importation fees are much more complex than just charging a set formula for everywhere.

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Is it legal under Canadian law for for a company to charge Canadian tax and duty,  and yet not be obliged to provide taxpayers with the exact amounts charged? Does a company's T&C override Canadian law? 

I'm not a lawyer so I can't answer these questions. That is why I would very much like this program to be subject to serious legal scrutiny.  Maybe what is legal in one country is not in another? 

The precedent is worrying. This is not what Canadians are accustomed to. We are very used to paying tax all the time, day in and day out, LOL, but we know the charges exactly to the last cent. 

As for action, I agree. Something other than posting here needs to happen. 

 

[marnotom!]

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@arlene_v wrote:

Is it legal under Canadian law for for a company to charge Canadian tax and duty,  and yet not be obliged to provide taxpayers with the exact amounts charged? Does a company's T&C override Canadian law? 

I'm not a lawyer so I can't answer these questions. That is why I would very much like this program to be subject to serious legal scrutiny.  Maybe what is legal in one country is not in another? 

The precedent is worrying. This is not what Canadians are accustomed to. We are very used to paying tax all the time, day in and day out, LOL, but we know the charges exactly to the last cent. 

As for action, I agree. Something other than posting here needs to happen.

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eBay or Pitney Bowes has argued that it's not charging tax and duty, at least in the sense that you and I generally know it.  Pitney Bowes as appointed "importer" pays the tax and duty owing on a GSP item.  What the buyer effectively does is pay Pitney Bowes that money back out of those mysterious import charges.

It's been brought up in this discussion at least once that the process in which Pitney Bowes gets granted power of attorney so that it can be considered "importer of record" may be questionable since nothing is ever signed to grant this.  I don't know how much substance there is to this argument, but that's probably what should be looked at first rather than the issue of the GSP "charging tax and duty".

[jorgen07]

I personally have nothing but expensive problems purchasing small items from US sellers who are enlisted with this program, in particular paper items which would normally be sent via media mail or small packet for a few dollars. Now 18.95 for international priority for the same item?? Does ebay own Pitney Bowes? Just curious? Can think of no other reason why they would be pushing this program. From a Canadian buyers stand point the program is terribly flawed!

[reallynicestamps]

The program was not designed to help buyers.

It is meant to encourage US sellers, a provincial and xenophobic bunch, to sell outside the USA.

To this end with the GSP, US sellers

-ship to a US address (in Kentucky) with Delivery Confirmation. There responsibility for delivery ends when the item arrives there.

-buyers pay applicable duty and tax on purchase, eliminating sticker shock on the doorstep

However, the program was, in classic eBay fashion, poorly explained.

EBay does not advise sellers to use it for items valued under $50. Boardies here in Canada think that should be under $100.

But eBay did nothing to alert sellers that using it on a given item is inadvisable. (They advise sellers of N*zi and Native American items about potential problems).

Given the type of seller the program attracts, if you see something with

Customs services and international tracking provided

you can

-pass

-ask the seller if he is willing to use First Class International instead, which includes Delivery Confirmation (DC is the important part here)

-check if similar items are actually a better buy (they are not always

-remind the seller to mark the place of manufacture on the package (not just the place of sale- an iPad made in China is dutiable even if it is purchased in the USA and even if it is used.)

[i*m-still-here]

Even though i purchase GSP listed items almost every day it's been a long time since I've actually had an item shipped to me via the GSP.

For that reason I'm no longer sure how they break the charges down and perhaps its changed.

It used to be clear that in addition to everything else there was a "handling fee" that was added to the two shipping costs (one within the States and one within Canada) in addition to taxes etc.

I have to wonder if they've buried that fee in the "import charges" portion of the breakdown now.

Perhaps that's some of the reason for the confusion above.

[walker0017]

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I*m-still-here wrote:

It used to be clear that in addition to everything else there was a "handling fee" that was added to the two shipping costs (one within the States and one within Canada) in addition to taxes etc.

I have to wonder if they've buried that fee in the "import charges" portion of the breakdown now.

Perhaps that's some of the reason for the confusion above.

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Considering how eBay/PBI has their T&C written when compared to other ecommerce sites it is not surprising that there is no detailed breakdown of costs. For example on purchases made on Amazon their is a detailed invoice with the following headings, a sub-total, followed by shipping and handling, a separate GST/HST/TSP/TVH,  and a PST/RST/QST/TVP/TVD/TVQ with a final order total. Now as far as I know no one complains about how Amazon ships their items, their costs are reasonable, the buyer has a choice of shipping methods and their is a detailed inventory list.  As well Amazon lists their various Tax registration numbers which shows that taxes collected are being sent to Revenue Canada. If eBay is trying to be like them for similar service then they have a very long way to go and without any detailed inventory list or tax registration number who knows what they are remitting to the Government of Canada for taxes or maybe that was their point to begin with.

[reallynicestamps]

Eliminate the import fees, this seems like a cash grab for processing the order.

This demand would be better addressed to Prime Minister Harper, since the import fees are made up of the duty applicable to any shipment valued over $20 and the applicable GST and provincial taxes. (Plus a $5 processing fee to Pitney Bowes which covers, I would assume, the cost of moving the item from their plant in Kentucky to your doorstep.)

The Right Honourable Stephen Harper, PC, MP

Prime Minister

House of Commons

OTTAWA ON  K1A 0A6

There is no need for a stamp on the envelope. Just mark OHMS where the stamp would go.

[moegabe]

When did the "Import Fee" take effect? I have been buying from EBay for years and having items sent to Canada, never to have had this sneaky fee attached, EVER, to my purchase at the very end of the process. I've paid fees and duties with couriers, upon arrival, but never when sent by post and never automatically tacked onto my purchase. What an unpleasant surprise. And this is after one has conmitted to the 'deal'/purchase. My parcel is now sitting at the P.O., rather than having been delivered, which usually means more fees/duties/charges. I WILL NEVER EVER EVER BUY FROM EBAY AGAIN until or unless this cash grab is eliminated. How to  Canadian customers.

[karl*katz]

I think it was just over a year ago although I couldn't swear to it.

Multiple threads on the subject over here

>>>  

http://community.ebay.ca/t5/Buyer-Central/bd-p/23003

[afantiques]

Plus a $5 processing fee to Pitney Bowes which covers, I would assume, the cost of moving the item from their plant in Kentucky to your doorstep.)

The cost of moving the item is the international shipping charge.

[clameire]

• What has worked well for you with the Global Shipping Program?

Nothing has worked.

This GSP is a THEFT

more than 30% taxes on transactions that have NO taxes in my country (France) is ILLEGAL

• Any ideas to help improve the experience for Canadian buyers?

I don't know for canadian buyers but for FRENCH buyers : KNOW THE RULES/LAWS and be sure not to collect where there is nothing to collect.

And please STOP reconditioning packages ! We are buying COLLECTIBLES they are ver FRAGILE.

Don't break them.

Let the sellers package themselves. They are doing it WITH CARE !

• What has deterred you from buying items offered using the Global Shipping Program?

Everything.

This program is nonsence

I will NEVER EVER BUY AGAIN within this program

• How have you managed to search for items outside the program?

Items listed outside of this program are NOT EASY ENOUGH to find

And items inside the program are NOT EASY ENOUGH TO EXCLUDE.

[theafkgamer]

Import fees have been around forever. You have just been lucky to not have been charged anything. Also, they're not being sneaky. If you re-read the listing, right under shipping charges there is something that says "Import Fees: $x.xx". By doing this, you don't have the chance of possibly not being charged import fees at the door, they will charge you right away if you are over the $20 limit.

Also, just because your parcel is sitting at the PO dosen't mean that there are more charges waiting. There are many reasons why a parcel would be brought to a PO. Instead of not buying from ebay again, you can just avoid using US sellers that use the Global Shipping Program. That is the program that charged you the import fees.

Just my two cents.

[ut.babe]

Well its been a long time since I posted.  Early last year 2 items I purchased that arrived to me via the GSP were broken, and were DEFINITELY opened and repackaged by Ptiney Bowes, removing in one case the secondary box the figure was in (which was the manufacturer box, instantly lowering the value of the figure).

After a year and all the complaints I thought I'd give them another chance.  I purchased a small porcelain bird figurine.  It was a restoration project so was already broken. 

The figurine arrived today.  Mercifully, the only damage it had was what was supposed to be there.  I have no idea why.  The package was opened by Pitney (resealed with their company tape) and it was DEFINITELY repackaged.  Most of the packing the seller included was gone.  The little bird was in a box with ONE pce of crumpled newspaper and ONE scrap of bubble wrap.  It was sitting ON TOP of the bubble wrap - not wrapped in it at all - and ON TOP of the piece of newspaper.

Obviously nothing has changed.  To be simple and blunt they just don't give a darn and neither does Ebay for letting them do this for this long.

And for the sellers that use it - having recently come into some extra funds I have been happily filling some holes in my collections... I have bypassed and ignored AT LEAST 30 items in the last two weeks because the seller uses GSP.  In some cases I msged asking them if they would remove it.  Some did.  Some I never heard from so oh well guess they don't need the sale.  Most of the time I just don't have the time to send a message so I just do without or find it elsewhere.  I have found a few other smaller sites that resell collectibles that have been quite good

Anyway, futile but thought I'd post.  Won't even mention the cost, plus the fact there shouldn't have been sales tax etc. on this item.  Experiment accomplished.  Pitney fails.  Again.

[pjcdn2005]

Why would the figurine be tax exempt?

[kxeron]

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@arlene_v wrote:

Is it legal under Canadian law for for a company to charge Canadian tax and duty,  and yet not be obliged to provide taxpayers with the exact amounts charged? Does a company's T&C override Canadian law?

---

I am not a lawyer either, but it doesn't take being one to observe the goings on in Canada:

Many courts have invalidated many contracts (through being ruled unconscionable and otherwise), both in part and in full. For instance in Canada, Telus attempted to enforce an arbitration clause against consumers. The Supreme Court (in Seidel v. TELUS Communications Inc) decided against Telus and invalidated the clause. Since this was issued by the Supreme Court, this potentially has an effect on eBay's own T&C where due to that ruling, eBay's arbitration clause is also unenforceable in Canada.

Considering this, there are certain rights that consumers cannot sign away through contracts. The Terms and Conditions eBay sets forth are not immune from Canadian action.

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I'm not a lawyer so I can't answer these questions. That is why I would very much like this program to be subject to serious legal scrutiny.  Maybe what is legal in one country is not in another? 

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From observations of mine, the United States has very lax consumer protection laws in contrast to most Commonwealth countries, so this issue should be brought under a Canadian microscope, which would be something eBay and PBI wouldn't want, which is good as it sets a tone that both organizations must accept that purchases are a business transaction that must be amicable for both parties, not just the larger.

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The precedent is worrying. This is not what Canadians are accustomed to. We are very used to paying tax all the time, day in and day out, LOL, but we know the charges exactly to the last cent. 

As for action, I agree. Something other than posting here needs to happen. 

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So what I am going to be doing is the following:

1. Writing a letter to the CBSA and my MP expressing concern and requesting investigation
2. If there's interest, possibly setting up an independent web centre not under eBay's jurisdiction (in particular a wiki and possible message board) where information and experiences on the GSP can be compiled into article form and have proper discussion than the limited space 2 threads on this forum can provide (Frankly, two threads are not enough space to adequately organize or be educated). This would also provide easily-consumable educational material that can be provided to sellers who utilize the GSP and too, other buyers unaware of the issues. This web centre would be not bound to just Canadian-relevant material, but all nations negatively impacted by the programme.

[chimera148]

Were you looking at the listing on a mobile phone?  There have been recent reports of the import charges not showing up on some mobile phones till check out.

[sharkgun]

117 pages of mostly negative is kinda sayign something on its own.

I've ordered 2 items in the past few months, one was 7 weeks ago now, and the other was a month ago this week. Both have had the standard delivery dates pass and I cannot do anythign to track them because the tracking number and carrier provided is very vague and provides no info.

I recommend being punctual about shipping items, ENSURE that we get the items we paid for when we should. I will not be usign the global shipping program should I sell on here, and will not buy via GSP unless I recieve my items in the next few days. 7 weeks from USA to Canada is WAY too long. Ive recieved items from Japan since then.

The biggest probblem is that I cannot start an investigation as a reciever. And because the item was shipped to kentucky, and then sent to me, the SELLER cannot do anything once the item reaches Kentucky. They get their money so it hardly matters to them regardless.

[pjcdn2005]

sharkgun, You should be filing an item not received claim with ebay or paypal. As long as the item reached Kentucky, it will be the gsp people who will be responsible for refunding you but the only way to get that refund is by filing a claim.

Question...Do they not give you a link as to where you can check tracking?

[kxeron]

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@pjcdn2005 wrote:

sharkgun, You should be filing an item not received claim with ebay or paypal. As long as the item reached Kentucky, it will be the gsp people who will be responsible for refunding you but the only way to get that refund is by filing a claim.

Question...Do they not give you a link as to where you can check tracking?

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Repayment is a non-solution, it simply brings the entire situation into the "Waste of time" category where people can spend hours looking for a valuable item on eBay, pay for it and have it shipped through the GSP only to be told that the item was lost and the alleged "only thing that can be done" is refund.

When I purchase something I expect with utmost force that object to be received in good condition and punctually. If I get told that I have to go back to square one it makes me question the stability of a programme like the GSP. I spend money  to receive something, not just to get it back some weeks later with a questionable apology. If I received this sort of treatment, I would be tempted to invoice PBI for my time (even if a fruitless activity it'd set the tone that I value my time) I spent searching for the item and making the purchase on an hourly rate and asking for that to be reimbursed as well.

Again, as I've said upthread, the programme is grossly over-simplified and in this case lacks mechanics to start investigations on lost items once they leave Kentucky. Once they leave, PBI basically seemingly is only able to say "Oops, here's your money back, let's part ways." without even as much as an investigation initiation — not exactly confidence-inspiring.