Comments about the Global Shipping Program

[kalvin@ebay.com]

Feel free to share your thoughts about the Global Shipping Program here. 

A few questions to get the ball rolling:

• What has worked well for you with the Global Shipping Program?
• Any ideas to help improve the experience for Canadian buyers?
• What has deterred you from buying items offered using the Global Shipping Program?
• How have you managed to search for items outside the program?

Please try & keep the comments constructive 🙂

If you have any questions about the program, please post them here.

[marnotom!]

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@kxeron wrote:

Consider this angle: The authorities could determine PBI (along with Amazon etc which is again not the concern of these forums) is not collecting GST/PST/HST on the "package processing and import service" itself and may in fact require PBI to obtain and utilize a canadian tax number and remit receipts on the commercial service itself.

This would treat the import service as seperate from the importation of the item itself aside from the fact the service was used as a vehicle.

While personal imports would not require this as CBSA would directly invoice the importer.

---

My understanding from what I've read on the subject is that there's nothing to legally impel Pitney Bowes to obtain and utilize a Canadian tax number.  Besides, it sees its role as an importer.  The package processing and import services are performed by entities other than Pitney Bowes.  Remember, listing pages simply state that "international shipping and import charges are paid to Pitney Bowes," not that PBI is performing the shipping or padding its pockets with those charges.

Pursuing Pitney Bowes for receipts isn't going to go anywhere so long as Pitney Bowes maintains that its role is as importer only with the services of tax and duty collection being performed by other entities.

[arlene_v]

I have only purchased 4 items on eBay so far this year ...all over the $20 threshold.

Three items arrived on my doorstep, and were not assessed by CBSA.

The other item was bought through the GSP. 

We all know what is to our benefit, and if the GSP persists in its current form, it will just mean that eBay will become increasingly irrelevant for Canadian online shoppers.

Why waste time and money here? I certainly won't. Anyone can see that this is not good for the buyer almost all the time.

If only we could filter out these noxious listings it would make shopping more pleasant ..but until then, I just avoid them, or look at them for giggles if I am bored to calculate just how much PB is going to legally charge me to rob me of my money! In this regard they do provide free entertainment. 

[arlene_v]

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@marnotom! wrote:

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Again, I don't think this is going to be a particularly effective approach as it puts the cart way behind the horse.  As elaborated in my previous post, what needs to be looked at is the process in which PBI is appointed importer of record.

Remember, Al Capone was tried and jailed for income tax fraud, not the St. Valentine's Day Massacre.

---

I find this post very helpful and yes, hopeful.

[marnotom!]

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@arlene_v wrote:

I have only purchased 4 items on eBay so far this year ...all over the $20 threshold.

Three items arrived on my doorstep, and were not assessed by CBSA.

The other item was bought through the GSP. 

We all know what is to our benefit, and if the GSP persists in its current form, it will just mean that eBay will become increasingly irrelevant for Canadian online shoppers.

Why waste time and money here? I certainly won't. Anyone can see that this is not good for the buyer almost all the time.

If only we could filter out these noxious listings it would make shopping more pleasant ..but until then, I just avoid them, or look at them for giggles if I am bored to calculate just how much PB is going to legally charge me to rob me of my money! In this regard they do provide free entertainment. 

---

Remember that in the early days of eBay, the Canadian dollar was worth 67 US cents and taxes and duty were assessed and charged on a larger proportion of personal imports than they are now.  The convenience of PayPal wasn't available to Canadians as a payment method.  Yet there was still considerable interest in purchasing items from the U.S. on eBay.

Buying habits and buyer expectations have changed what with factors such as the comparatively higher dollar, higher shipping rates, the availability of PayPal and CBSA taking a "hands off" approach to lower-valued items.

The introduction of the GSP is another factor that will likely change the buying habits of typical Canadian eBay users.  Some people will be able to make it work for them, either by persuading sellers to ship to them directly or by making more use of U.S. shipping addresses or forwarding agents.  Some buyers won't, leaving all the more for those who can figure out when the GSP works and when it doesn't. 

I stopped looking for bargains for the sake of bargains on eBay a long time ago, and I think my wife did, too.  I now look more for items that are unusual or difficult to source here.  The mobile phone I got a few weeks ago was one that isn't available through a Canadian carrier, for instance.  The GSP fees made sense, more or less, and seemed to give me as a British Columbian an advantage over buying locally.  People's mileage will vary, of course.

Anyway, what I'm trying to say in all this is that the GSP will change how Canadians shop on eBay, but I doubt it will make it "irrelevant".

[dgour98]

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@pocomocomputing wrote:

What is the listing number of the comic?

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This was the item number;

111224161289

[pjcdn2005]

The seller is telling you the truth and receives only $2.99 for shipping that comic. Since he is using the gsp he will ship the item to Kentucky to the shipping center and he will receive $2.99 for that which is what a domestic customer would pay. The rest of the shipping amount would go to Pitney Bowes for shipping/ handling to another country.  PB handles the global shipping program.

I agree that $16 shipping for a $2 comic is ridiculous as the seller could send it with first class international for quite a bit less. Some sellers seem to think that selling out of the U.S. is too dangerous and too complicated so they use the gsp.

[dgour98]

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@pjcdn2005 wrote:

The seller is telling you the truth and receives only $2.99 for shipping that comic. Since he is using the gsp he will ship the item to Kentucky to the shipping center and he will receive $2.99 for that which is what a domestic customer would pay. The rest of the shipping amount would go to Pitney Bowes for shipping/ handling to another country.  PB handles the global shipping program.

I agree that $16 shipping for a $2 comic is ridiculous as the seller could send it with first class international for quite a bit less. Some sellers seem to think that selling out of the U.S. is too dangerous and too complicated so they use the gsp.

---

Except that he has the famous "import charges" at $0.00.

Nothing against the seller, i e-mailed him/her and he/she said yes it was unfortunate on sales. Either way, he's pocketing the money or really is letting pitney bowes take it. But the bottom line is sellers are not selling because of this.

[arlene_v]

I thought the Al Capone analogy you used (and I quoted) was a pretty radical indictment against the GSP.

What are you trying to say or imply in that post? 

[arlene_v]

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@marnotom! wrote:

---

@arlene_v wrote:

I have only purchased 4 items on eBay so far this year ...all over the $20 threshold.

Three items arrived on my doorstep, and were not assessed by CBSA.

The other item was bought through the GSP. 

We all know what is to our benefit, and if the GSP persists in its current form, it will just mean that eBay will become increasingly irrelevant for Canadian online shoppers.

Why waste time and money here? I certainly won't. Anyone can see that this is not good for the buyer almost all the time.

If only we could filter out these noxious listings it would make shopping more pleasant ..but until then, I just avoid them, or look at them for giggles if I am bored to calculate just how much PB is going to legally charge me to rob me of my money! In this regard they do provide free entertainment. 

---

Remember that in the early days of eBay, the Canadian dollar was worth 67 US cents and taxes and duty were assessed and charged on a larger proportion of personal imports than they are now.  The convenience of PayPal wasn't available to Canadians as a payment method.  Yet there was still considerable interest in purchasing items from the U.S. on eBay.

Buying habits and buyer expectations have changed what with factors such as the comparatively higher dollar, higher shipping rates, the availability of PayPal and CBSA taking a "hands off" approach to lower-valued items.

The introduction of the GSP is another factor that will likely change the buying habits of typical Canadian eBay users.  Some people will be able to make it work for them, either by persuading sellers to ship to them directly or by making more use of U.S. shipping addresses or forwarding agents.  Some buyers won't, leaving all the more for those who can figure out when the GSP works and when it doesn't. 

I stopped looking for bargains for the sake of bargains on eBay a long time ago, and I think my wife did, too.  I now look more for items that are unusual or difficult to source here.  The mobile phone I got a few weeks ago was one that isn't available through a Canadian carrier, for instance.  The GSP fees made sense, more or less, and seemed to give me as a British Columbian an advantage over buying locally.  People's mileage will vary, of course.

Anyway, what I'm trying to say in all this is that the GSP will change how Canadians shop on eBay, but I doubt it will make it "irrelevant".

_________________________________________

Who knows, but for many on this thread I think I can safely assert that if the GSP continues in its current woeful incarnation, and  expands to other countries (this has not been refuted here so I assume it to be true) ... chances are eBay will wither and die in Canada because very few shoppers will bother to take the time and effort to sift through thousands of listings, some GSP and some not, contact numerous sellers etc etc to figure out when it works and when it doesn't.

I don' think the GSP is going to go away, sadly, I think it is going to just grow and grow, until it becomes the norm, and not the exception. 

But we could argue this until the cows come home, it is all conjecture. 

[marnotom!]

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@arlene_v wrote:

I thought the Al Capone analogy you used (and I quoted) was a pretty radical indictment against the GSP.

What are you trying to say or imply in that post? 

---

Al Capone didn't go down in history as a tax cheat.  He was notorious for a lot of other misdeeds, however.  Unfortunately, it was pretty much impossible to get enough evidence to peg him for those misdeeds.  Instead, the feds took a different tack and had him charged for something where there was enough evidence to ensure a reasonable chance of conviction.

It's a similar story with the GSP.  There's no way anybody's going to be able to peg them for a lot of the stuff they're being accused of doing, and indeed, in some cases those accusations are pretty baseless anyway.  If anyone has any issues with the GSP, it seems to me best to attack them by using something against it where there is some evidence of its procedures:  the GSP's own terms and conditions.  

[marnotom!]

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@arlene_v wrote:

...for many on this thread I think I can safely assert that if the GSP continues in its current woeful incarnation, and  expands to other countries (this has not been refuted here so I assume it to be true) ... chances are eBay will wither and die in Canada because very few shoppers will bother to take the time and effort to sift through thousands of listings, some GSP and some not, contact numerous sellers etc etc to figure out when it works and when it doesn't.

I don' think the GSP is going to go away, sadly, I think it is going to just grow and grow, until it becomes the norm, and not the exception. 

---

Don't forget that GSP-esque programs are "the norm" for a lot of US-based online retailers.  Borderfree seems to be picking up clients by the fistful.  Many online retailers that ship directly to buyers through the postal system are the internet equivalent of Mom and Pop stores.  Like it or not, this seems to be the direction in which online commerce is headed.

If the big online retailers can find a way to do their jobs better and at a lower cost (or at least a lower perceived cost) to buyers than Pitney Bowes, it's going to put pressure to bear on Pitney Bowes to step up its game lest non-US buyers leave eBay in droves only to find themselves using other eCommerce sites with contractors that do the same job as the GSP.

Having said all that. eBay really needs a better way of educating sellers on the care and feeding of the GSP, but that's probably left in Pitney Bowes' hands in the contractual sense.  

[marnotom!]

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@dgour98 wrote:

Nothing against the seller, i e-mailed him/her and he/she said yes it was unfortunate on sales. Either way, he's pocketing the money or really is letting pitney bowes take it. But the bottom line is sellers are not selling because of this.

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I think you mean that sellers are not selling to Canada (or internationally) because of the GSP.  Don't forget, the US domestic market is far larger than the Canadian market.  Many U.S. sellers can make a decent enough go of it on eBay without having to expand their buyer pool outside of their borders.

This comic book seller probably falls into that category.

[arlene_v]

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@marnotom! wrote:

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@arlene_v wrote:

...for many on this thread I think I can safely assert that if the GSP continues in its current woeful incarnation, and  expands to other countries (this has not been refuted here so I assume it to be true) ... chances are eBay will wither and die in Canada because very few shoppers will bother to take the time and effort to sift through thousands of listings, some GSP and some not, contact numerous sellers etc etc to figure out when it works and when it doesn't.

I don' think the GSP is going to go away, sadly, I think it is going to just grow and grow, until it becomes the norm, and not the exception. 

---

Don't forget that GSP-esque programs are "the norm" for a lot of US-based online retailers.  Borderfree seems to be picking up clients by the fistful.  Many online retailers that ship directly to buyers through the postal system are the internet equivalent of Mom and Pop stores.  Like it or not, this seems to be the direction in which online commerce is headed.

If the big online retailers can find a way to do their jobs better and at a lower cost (or at least a lower perceived cost) to buyers than Pitney Bowes, it's going to put pressure to bear on Pitney Bowes to step up its game lest non-US buyers leave eBay in droves only to find themselves using other eCommerce sites with contractors that do the same job as the GSP.

Having said all that. eBay really needs a better way of educating sellers on the care and feeding of the GSP, but that's probably left in Pitney Bowes' hands in the contractual sense.  

---

The HUGE difference between Borderfree and eBay is that Borderfree is being used by clients who actively wish to expand to international markets, and are acutely aware of competitive pricing and also would have professionals getting the coding right for tax purposes.

I really do wish you would stop comparing the current mess on eBay with Borderfree. I wager you would never see extra duty on items made in China on Borderfree as you do here on eBay. Does Borderfree repack items? Does Borderfree sometimes not fulfill an order that has been placed because it can't be shipped across the border despite being advertised? Does Borderfree ship directly to customers or use something like the Erlanger situation as well. adding extra shipping costs? 

I'm afraid that if eBay wants to emulate big online retailers and use this model, and charge accordingly, and then present what amounts to amateur hour ...buyers will leave.

Simple.  

Marnotom! you often assert that people are not getting the point or are not reading something correctly. I am going to assert, and this is done respectfully, that you are not reading this thread correctly at all. 

You are missing the entire point of almost every post on this thread if you think the GSP is not going to drive Canadian customers away. I urge you, since you have the time it would seem, to go back and reread this thread.

I think you will find yourself the lone voice ..maybe you think this is academic or even an exercise in logic. But it really isn't that complicated ... buyers hate this program.

eBay has done something very stupid here.

[arlene_v]

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@marnotom! wrote:

---

@arlene_v wrote:

I thought the Al Capone analogy you used (and I quoted) was a pretty radical indictment against the GSP.

What are you trying to say or imply in that post? 

---

Al Capone didn't go down in history as a tax cheat.  He was notorious for a lot of other misdeeds, however.  Unfortunately, it was pretty much impossible to get enough evidence to peg him for those misdeeds.  Instead, the feds took a different tack and had him charged for something where there was enough evidence to ensure a reasonable chance of conviction.

It's a similar story with the GSP.  There's no way anybody's going to be able to peg them for a lot of the stuff they're being accused of doing, and indeed, in some cases those accusations are pretty baseless anyway.  If anyone has any issues with the GSP, it seems to me best to attack them by using something against it where there is some evidence of its procedures:  the GSP's own terms and conditions.  

---

Marnotom! I am very familiar with the story.  I guess we differ on the interpretation. 

[afantiques]

, but I don't think it is because I'm

currently watching a broken phone that has a Buy It Now price of $200 and import duties of

 $32 but the phone will likely not reach even half of the BIN price

Charges are calculated on the BIN price if an auction has such a thing, if a bid is placed then the BIN is cancelled and the charges drop to be based on the current bid price and what the eventual buyer pays is based on the final bid price.

[arlene_v]

Marnotom! -  I owe you an apology. It seems Borderfree is indeed using the same model as the GSP, viz shipping ..with similar results.

https://www.facebook.com/Sephora/posts/10151660193329405

[artyfaxcreative]

Dear ebay, and all American sellers:

I just purchased six coins from a seller in New York State. I live in Toronto, Ontario. The distance is therefore fairly negligible, insofar as 'shipping charges' usually go. Six coins - with a total combined weight of no more than 7 ozs., guaranteed.

The seller choose to utilize your Global Shipping Program as their International Carrier. I had made the (wrong, as it turned out) assumption that sellers could combine shipping for multiple winning bids. My winning bids came to a total of about $90.00 US.

Your Global Shipping Program promptly added an incredulously exorbitant $100-plus dollars in shipping and "import" charges. FOR SIX OLD CANADIAN COINS.

There is absolutely no chance I will ever deal with a seller who chooses the Global Shipping Policy, ever again. I also urge all international bidders even thinking about bidding on GSP-related auctions or Buy It Now listings to avoid doing so: Let's call it a boycott, if you will.

You can attempt to justify it any way you wish, ebay: but the simple truth is, this is just plain bad business. Your third-party partnership for 'import fees' with Pitney Bowes should be seriously re-examined. The more bidders become aware of this punitive policy, the more they'll shy away from giving American sellers even so much as a cursory glance when they see the dreaded "International Priority Shipping" on the listing. The disclaimer stating "No additional import charges at delivery" is not reassuring: it's deceptively ironic and frankly, insulting to non-American bidders.

As a businessman and a buyer, I strongly suggest American sellers give serious consideration to not choosing GSP as their carrier for International Shipping. This isn't a "program" - ebay apears to have figured out a way to make money off of buyers (as well as sellers), and they're enlisted the "aid" of Pitney Bowes to do so. That's how it looks from the outside looking in, anyway.

It doesn't take a genius to recognize the repercussions of a very bad policy. If enough International Bidders simply ignore listings using the GSP, it becomes an economic thing: hitting company coffers where it hurts. Less international interest, less bidding, less money. Sellers will quickly catch on that losing customers because of a business partner's policy (i.e., ebay) can impact their eventual bottom line.

Overhaul the Global Shipping Program so that it makes economic sense, ebay: or scrap it altogether.

[der_rittmeister]

Why would I want to buy anything with GSP? I've been buying from Canada for many years and only occasionally get charged duty (maybe once in every five or so times, and then only when something costs over $100.  Now I'm paying every time and on items I never "never" would have paid duty on before.  I'm not questioning whether its the law or not, I don't care about that.  I'm not going to voluntarily pay duty I don't have to pay by not buying anything using GSP.  I'll buy from Amazon or other places if I have to.  So Ebay and Ebay sellers are just going to lose my business. 

[der_rittmeister]

Why would I voluntarily pay duty fees up front when reality is that 9 times out of 10 I don't end up paying them at my end in Canada. Fact is Ebay sellers from the U.S. are just losing my business now.  Too bad!

[lifeofdarnel]

My comment:

The Global Shipping Program sucks and is just a money grabbing technique. I doubt Pitney Bowes is paying the import charges that are collected especially for items under $100. Here's another example of international buyers, specifically Canadians, being disadvantaged. I'm still wondering why eBucks were cancelled for us. But back to the point... American sellers should instead be encouraged to ship internationally independently. It really isn't hard. Either that OR the shipping program should only include shipping costs and import charges should only be payed if they are incurred at the border... and I'd prefer to pay them directly to my province/country than prematurely to a shipping company.