eBay

fort2b · ‎07-17-2016

In the item description, the GSP no longer shows import charges, just the shipping cost. The buyer won't know he's going to be charged import charges, which are often way higher than they should be, until after he/she has bought. Expect some angry buyers if you use GSP.

This probably won't effect many Canadian sellers as I doubt many of us use GSP but for those that do, beware. The US and UK sellers, many of whom do use GSP, are going to get a lot of angry buyers from this change. Nice surprise charge after you've committed to buy. Cool.

prarie_nerd · ‎07-22-2016

I still see import charges. You probably weren't signed in when you viewed the item. When you start the purchase you'll have to sign in and then it would know your location and show you

marnotom! · ‎07-23-2016

@prarie_nerd wrote:

I still see import charges. You probably weren't signed in when you viewed the item. When you start the purchase you'll have to sign in and then it would know your location and show you.

This issue seems to be cropping up on the .com site for those who use it regularly for buying. The .ca site appears to be unaffected.

momcqueen · ‎07-23-2016

Ebay Canada staff confirmed at Board Hour this week they (the company) are running a test on this to see how buyers react.

momcqueen · ‎07-23-2016

Second-last post from the bottom of the thread.

http://community.ebay.ca/t5/Weekly-Chat-Session/July-20th-2016-Weekly-Session/m-p/345114#M4736

sylviebee · ‎07-23-2016

Raphaels's comment was that ""This is indeed a test. The GSP team is trying a few things to see how buyers react. This is one of those things."""

The good news is that the "GSP team" must have noticed that Canadian purchases from US sellers using the GSP have dropped.

If what we read here on the boards is any indication then those purchases have flat lined.

However, if it's a test then they'll be monitoring if that manipulation increases sales and not how we feel about this attempt to trick us into paying for a service that we don't want.

I'm guessing that it there will be an initial spike in GSP purchases by Canadians but then we'll be even angrier at the GSP team because no one likes being tricked into spending their money.

That is, those who get tricked will buy once, but they won't be fooled a second time.

What kind of test is that? Testing to determine if they can fool us into using the GSP is beyond insulting.

Consumer protection groups would be appalled, as am I.

00nevermind00 · ‎07-23-2016

So it's a test... A remarkably dumb one, if I may be allowed to express an opinion. Why have it on .com and not .ca? What could possibly be gained by hiding important information from buyers? This must be the brainchild of the same genius who came up with the "hide description" test a while ago.

Marnotom, how can you possibly know that only "habitual" .com users are no longer seeing the import charges? It is entirely possible that some (many?) first-time users also don't see any import charges, but they're unlikely to come to these boards to post about it. The fact is that we have no way of knowing who is targeted by this test. And eBay, who seems to love and value secrecy, isn't going to tell us anytime soon.

So eBay wants to make the GSP more palatable to Canadian buyers? Well, well, well... maybe we do matter after all... I'm touched!

Here are a few suggestions for eBay, free of charge. No need to thank me.

1. Stop enrolling clueless sellers without telling them. Clueless sellers tend to attract clueless buyers and this can only cause problems for everyone.

2. Some buyers would sooner have their teeth drilled rather than buy anything that ships with the GSP. Why not give them the GSP filter that they want? You are alienating those buyers, eBay! By forcing them to look at GSP items they don't want to see, you won't make them buy with the program, you'll send them and their money to other shopping sites.

3. Simplify the claims process. This is especially urgent in the case of seller-fault SNAD. Buyers who end up out-of-pocket because of the convoluted claims process aren't likely to buy GSP items. On the contrary, they'll avoid those like the plague and they may decide to avoid eBay altogether. And in this day and age of social media communication, one angry and wronged customer can do a lot of damage.

Think about it!

momcqueen · ‎07-23-2016

I agree. I think anyone who gets hoodwinked into a GSP purchase is likely to be so turned-off, they don't come back to eBay at all.

momcqueen · ‎07-23-2016

I also agree this is likely to be a test run on, for example, members with a low feedback count as opposed to a feedback count of five hundred or more. Experienced users notice irregularities and raise the hue and cry, thusly defeating the purpose of a test like this.

gifts_of_elegance · ‎07-23-2016

I purchased item 231992248824 with 0 import charges showing. My shipping address was to USA. The following day Pitney Bowes charged my credit card $15.25 for Import Charges. I complained to the seller and she was very upset but could do nothing. She said that she spoke to eBay and they agreed that it showed 0 and also that no import charges apply under $800 but there was nothing they could do.

momcqueen · ‎07-23-2016

I would call paypal about that.

pauperback-2 · ‎07-23-2016

throffer...tinkling

rose-dee · ‎07-23-2016

@gifts_of_elegance wrote:
She said that she spoke to eBay and they agreed that it showed 0 and also that no import charges apply under $800 but there was nothing they could do.

As far as the practical problem of getting your money back is concerned, I'd suggest printing out whatever paperwork you can that shows the import charges and applying to the U.S. border services/customs to have them refunded. This process is available in Canada, through CBSA, so I imagine the U.S. must have a similar one.

As for the principle of the thing, I'm aghast and thoroughly disgusted that eBay would dupe its buyers in this way, beta test or not. Actually, we should not really be surprised. This must be the adjunct to eBay's recent transparently self-serving attempt to use CBC radio to sell the idea of raising the import allowance for Canadian buyers and to lobby the federal government for the change.

It would be hard to imagine a more cynical company than one which manipulates its own customers by hiding costs. Are they so stupid at eBay HQ that they really needed to test the reactions of consumers to this ludicrous idea? What did they think would happen?

EBay should remember the debacle that ensued years ago over "negative billing" and how it destroyed many companies. Hiding GSP costs falls into the same category of fooling your buyers. This will backfire.

momcqueen · ‎07-23-2016

@rose-dee wrote:
....EBay should remember the debacle that ensued years ago over "negative billing" and how it destroyed many companies. Hiding GSP costs falls into the same category of fooling your buyers. This will backfire.

I concur. It is a very bad idea to try this. No one appreciates hidden costs.

pjcdn2005 · ‎07-23-2016

When I read that Raphael said they were waiting to see how buyers react my first thought was how the heck do you think they would react to suddenly finding out that they owe more money than expected, sheesh

To be fair there are a lot of sites that do not show import charges until the end but I rarely use those sites because of that.

Since the test is not on .ca, I doubt that it is aimed at Canadians.

momcqueen · ‎07-23-2016

Yes, exactly. Thank you for raising it at Board Hour, I was away from my desk for most of the day. (Or I might have said to him exactly what you were thinking because I was thinking the same thing.)

pjcdn2005 · ‎07-23-2016

@gifts_of_elegance wrote:
I purchased item 231992248824 with 0 import charges showing. My shipping address was to USA. The following day Pitney Bowes charged my credit card $15.25 for Import Charges. I complained to the seller and she was very upset but could do nothing. She said that she spoke to eBay and they agreed that it showed 0 and also that no import charges apply under $800 but there was nothing they could do.

Was there 1 or 2 charges from PB? If the $15.25 was the only charge that would be the shipping charge / handling fee from the UK gsp. The seller would have received about 94gbp. (90 for the item + 3.90gbp ifor domestic shipping ) and pb would have received about 11gbp which was the remainder of the shipping charge shown on the listing If there are 2 charges from pb rather than just 1 you should phone PayPal as there should be no taxes or duty due.

In other words....according to the listing the total paid to the seller should have been approx. US$125 and pb should have received approx US$15. I am assuming that you paid in u.s. Dollars. Was that close to what you paid in total?

sylviebee · ‎07-23-2016

@gifts_of_elegance wrote:
I purchased item 231992248824 with 0 import charges showing. My shipping address was to USA. The following day Pitney Bowes charged my credit card $15.25 for Import Charges. I complained to the seller and she was very upset but could do nothing. She said that she spoke to eBay and they agreed that it showed 0 and also that no import charges apply under $800 but there was nothing they could do.

That's one variation of testing the GSP that I haven't encountered yet.

1) The first one was where the GSP charges didn't add up because the cost was so low that it was impossible to cover import costs, shipping costs, plus the P.B. handling fee.

2.) The second version of the test is the one discussed in this thread where they disguise the GSP warning hoping we won't catch it until later in the process. (Foot in the Door technique.)

3.) The third is the method described in this post. That is, allow the sale to complete and then charge added fees the next day. (By far the sleaziest yet.)

I'd really really have to love the item not to cancel that transaction.

Is it even legal to add charges after the purchase? Clearly the buyer did not give consent and the idea that a merchant adds charges after the purchase has been completed just because they can is really pushing it.

Pretty sure there are laws against that kind of thing.

4.) ???) Maybe the next variation will be to add the P.B. charges after the item has already been shipped.

It seems to me that the GSP team will do anything they have to keep the program alive and have no respect for the buyer. Stooping pretty low for sure.

pjcdn2005 · ‎07-23-2016

@rose-dee wrote:
@gifts_of_elegance wrote:
She said that she spoke to eBay and they agreed that it showed 0 and also that no import charges apply under $800 but there was nothing they could do.
As far as the practical problem of getting your money back is concerned, I'd suggest printing out whatever paperwork you can that shows the import charges and applying to the U.S. border services/customs to have them refunded. This process is available in Canada, through CBSA, so I imagine the U.S. must have a similar one.

As for the principle of the thing, I'm aghast and thoroughly disgusted that eBay would dupe its buyers in this way, beta test or not. Actually, we should not really be surprised. This must be the adjunct to eBay's recent transparently self-serving attempt to use CBC radio to sell the idea of raising the import allowance for Canadian buyers and to lobby the federal government for the change.

It would be hard to imagine a more cynical company than one which manipulates its own customers by hiding costs. Are they so stupid at eBay HQ that they really needed to test the reactions of consumers to this ludicrous idea? What did they think would happen?

EBay should remember the debacle that ensued years ago over "negative billing" and how it destroyed many companies. Hiding GSP costs falls into the same category of fooling your buyers. This will backfire.

Just for info.....you can not claim amounts paid to pb from Canada customs because of the way the system is set up. Any claims have to be made to PB as the amount they give to customs is in their name, not in the buyers name. There's more to it than that but that's an easy way to explain it. It is done in a similar way by some other companies too.

gifts_of_elegance · ‎07-23-2016

@pjcdn2005 wrote:
@gifts_of_elegance wrote:
I purchased item 231992248824 with 0 import charges showing. My shipping address was to USA. The following day Pitney Bowes charged my credit card $15.25 for Import Charges. I complained to the seller and she was very upset but could do nothing. She said that she spoke to eBay and they agreed that it showed 0 and also that no import charges apply under $800 but there was nothing they could do.
Was there 1 or 2 charges from PB? If the $15.25 was the only charge that would be the shipping charge / handling fee from the UK gsp. The seller would have received about 94gbp. (90 for the item + 3.90gbp ifor domestic shipping ) and pb would have received about 11gbp which was the remainder of the shipping charge shown on the listing If there are 2 charges from pb rather than just 1 you should phone PayPal as there should be no taxes or duty due.

In other words....according to the listing the total paid to the seller should have been approx. US$125 and pb should have received approx US$15. I am assuming that you paid in u.s. Dollars. Was that close to what you paid in total?

Why are you assuming things? I paid $19.59 for shipping as stated on the listing. The seller says she only received a very small portion of this. I paid for item and shipping with PayPal. As far as I was concerned, that was my total cost. I never received anything from Pitney Bowes, they just charged my credit card for $15.25 import charge.

00nevermind00 · ‎07-23-2016

@sylviebee wrote:
That's one variation of testing the GSP that I haven't encountered yet.

1) The first one was where the GSP charges didn't add up because the cost was so low that it was impossible to cover import costs, shipping costs, plus the P.B. handling fee.

2.) The second version of the test is the one discussed in this thread where they disguise the GSP warning hoping we won't catch it until later in the process. (Foot in the Door technique.)

3.) The third is the method described in this post. That is, allow the sale to complete and then charge added fees the next day. (By far the sleaziest yet.)
I'd really really have to love the item not to cancel that transaction.
Is it even legal to add charges after the purchase? Clearly the buyer did not give consent and the idea that a merchant adds charges after the purchase has been completed just because they can is really pushing it.
Pretty sure there are laws against that kind of thing.

4.) ???) Maybe the next variation will be to add the P.B. charges after the item has already been shipped.

It seems to me that the GSP team will do anything they have to keep the program alive and have no respect for the buyer. Stooping pretty low for sure.

You forgot the one in which all GSP items under (I think) $50 suddenly stopped showing import charges even when they were clearly above the measly $20 tax-free allowance. I seem to recall Raphael admitting that this was a test as well.

And the one where all GSP items were suddenly bundled together with items from international sellers at the end of some searches. That one proved to be quite a bit more popular.

@pjcdn2005 wrote:
Just for info.....you can not claim amounts paid to pb from Canada customs because of the way the system is set up. Any claims have to be made to PB as the amount they give to customs is in their name, not in the buyers name. There's more to it than that but that's an easy way to explain it. It is done in a similar way by some other companies too.

Keep in mind that "overcharges" are never refundable with the GSP. That's one of the lovelier (!) aspects of the program which you (supposedly) agree to when you purchase a GSP item. It is also mentioned in the GSP T&C gobbledigook which you (again, supposedly) have read and understood before purchasing a GSP item.

I would really like to know if Canadian buyers have been singled out for this "test" or if there are buyers in the UK, for example, who also no longer see any import charges when using eBay.com to browse/purchase. Whoever came up with this is obviously completely clued out about buying on eBay. How can anyone possibly think that buyers would appreciate this!

Maybe it's about time eBay/PB started including international buyers into their focus groups! The program may be all about US and UK sellers, but last time I checked, there were still two parties involved in any purchase transaction.