***eBay Workshop: New Item Not Received Process 3-4 PM ET, Wednesday, January 26, 2005***

[carly@ebay.com]

Topic: eBay Workshop: New Item Not Received Process
Host: eBay Staff
Date: Wednesday,January 26, 2005
Time: 3:00 PM – 4:00 PM ET
Location: Canada Town Square

Description: This January, buyers will be able to initiate the new Item Not Received process when they have not received an item they paid for or the item they’ve received is significantly different from what was described in the listing. During this online workshop, eBay staff will answer questions about how buyers and sellers will be able to use this new process.

You can also leave your questions here in advance if you are not able to attend, and then we can answer them during the workshop.

Hope to see you there!
Carly

[moira@ebay.com]

Now that we have completed the top Frequently Asked Questions portion of this workshop, are there any other questions or comments?

Moira and friends

[moira@ebay.com]

Hi 3*canadian*angels, how are you today?

Moira

[carly@ebay.com]

Hi everyone,

Many Pinks here to answer your questions on the new INR process, so don't be shy, and post away your questions!

Carly

[3*canadian*angels]

I'm very good Moira. Trying to keep warm.
Don't know that I have any real concerns about the process. Just hoping that some buyers don't blow "significantly not as described" way out of proportion.

[*christmasangel*]

As a seller, what protection do we have when we are shipping from Canada, using Canada Post, which unless we charge very expensive shipping rates does not include tracking? And Canada Post's delivery system is by dog sled. 🙂

[pukmis]

Hi Carly , Moira , and the rest of the pinkette's...
No real questions , just a fly by howdy!!!

[nickie*nine*doors]

I have 2 concerns about this feature.

1) 10 days is not enough, especially for us Canadians. As sellers, we know it takes (usually) at least 14 days for items to be shipped to the US, even when sent by air service. Having this option available will create many unnecessary claims. The same goes the other way, when Canadians purchase from the US, it also takes 2-3 weeks to arrive. This feature is fine for domestic transactions, but as soon as you go international, the 10 days is unrealistic.

2) The time frame allowable to report an Item Not Received, should be from the date of payment, NOT the end-of-auction. Some buyers take 7 days or MORE to pay for the item. Why then, at days 10 would they be allowed to file a complaint for Item Not Received? It makes no sense. There should be some method to track the payment date. Or perhaps this feature should only be available to buyers who pay with Paypal.....then there is a record of payment date. They should not be allowed to file until 10 days AFTER payment date. (Even though, as I stated above, 10 days is not enough).

[pal@ebay.com]

Hi christmasangel -- Thanks for the post. You asked about seller protection. eBay does not offer a seller protection proram but PayPal does. This program (https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/gen/protections-outside) offers up to $5000 USD on fraudulent transactions.

As for what else you can do... For proof of shipment, ideally it would be a tracking number--but if you as the seller sent the item in an untrackable manner, eBay would accept a copy of the post office receipt that showed the date, the weight and the postal code of the place that the item was shipped.

These are reviewed on a case-by-case basis and even with this type of shipping proof, we may still find it necessary to pay the claim to the buyer--However, we might not necessarily find the seller at fault and no action would necesarily be taken on their account (we would also give them tips on how to ship in the future to avoid this).

Hope that helps.

Thanks,
Larry

[moira@ebay.com]

Hi 3*canadain*angels,

'Significantly not as described' is not really a new term for buyers so I don't think it will be increasing the use of the claims. There are rules on when someone can use the 'significantly not as described' claim:

An item is considered "significantly not as described" if the seller clearly misrepresents the item in a way that directly affects its value or usability.

Moira

[nickie*nine*doors]

Ditto on what *christmasangel* said about tracking. Tracking and insurance are readily available (and inexpensively so) if you use US Postal Service. But Canada Post does not provide this same service. So the Canadian seller has very little choice with regards to shipping. If the seller needs to provide ebay with PROOF of shipping, 90% of the time it is just not possible.

[*christmasangel*]

It doesn't really help. Canadian sellers cannot provide shipping with tracking numbers at a cost competitive with the US sellers. As it stands, even without tracking, we have trouble competing with the US sellers.

[crule@ebay.com]

cornerstone* posted:
"All it is designed for is to make sellers HAVE to accept paypal."

I can't see how the new INR process makes sellers have to accept PayPal. In fact, this whole process is only applicable to non-PayPal transactions! If the thought is that this process is so onerous that people will use PayPal to avoid it, I must respectfully disagree.

"eBay has no right to interfere with a sellers customers."

The INR process is simply a communications process for buyers and sellers, nothing more. It imposes no new terms on sellers/buyers, and it puts no new requirements on sellers. How do you feel it interferes?

"How does eBay plan to prevent a buyer who takes 9 days to pay via Cheque from filing a INR?"

eBay doesn't know when payments are made and received, so we have to base the timelines off of the item close. When a buyer files an INR dispute the process asks them when they paid, and if the payment date is close to the filing date the buyer sees a special page telling them that they might want to wait longer, because sellers don't ship until payment clears, and it can take time for payment to clear. We don't block them from filing, but we do present them additional information to educate them in the case that they file right after they pay.

"How does eBay account for the postage delays?"

The process specifically addresses delays due to shipping, particularly in cross-border transactions. In all cross-border transactions the buyer sees a special page explaining that shipping, customs, and payment can all cause delays in item delivery, and that buyers should be prepared to wait longer in international transactions.

"Where does eBay have the time to look after INR complaints when it doesn't have time to answer valid ones through customer service?"

Well, I can't speak to the customer service delays, but I know this is something we work very hard on. This new INR process is an automated process, so it doesn't require any more time from customer service representatives. The SPPP claims process is managed by customer service representatives, but the new INR process doesn't change the SPPP process... it will continue to work as it has for the past several years.

"Buyers are the Sellers customers eBay. Your customers are the sellers. This does not help the sellers or the buyers this will just cause an uneasy trust between them."

eBay has an obligation to both buyers and sellers. If all sellers were completely responsible, responsive, and ethical, then it might work for eBay to interact only with sellers. Unfortunately, that's not always the case. *cornerstone, based on your feedback (99.6% positive) I'm sure you take care of your buyers. I'd wager that you'll never even see an INR dispute, or just a couple per year, because your buyers will never have a need for the process. But for those buyers who find themselves in a transaction with a seller who is non-responsive or even unethical, this process will be important for them.

All the new INR process provides is a clear action path for buyers who find themselves faced with a transaction problem. Instead of leaping to conclusions, filing negatives, or doing chargebacks, this process educates buyers about reasonable expectations, opens a line of communication between the buyer and the seller, and provides a clear and reasonable path to problem resolution or redress in the form of an SPPP claim. There are no new burdens or requirements put upon sellers by the INR process, though we do believe that sellers will want to respond to INRs filed by their buyers so as to address their concerns and avoid escalation to a more complex and time consuming situation.

Thanks for the questions, *cornerstone!

Colin

[3*canadian*angels]

I agree with nickie about the 10 days. Surely too soon for stuff to arrive in the States or to Canada from the States.

[travelwrytr]

Am I missing something here? The way I am reading this, the buyer has to have received *communication* from the seller within 10 days, not received the item within 10 days.

As long as we're communication with buyer, and explain approximate delivery times, there shouldn't be a problem, right?

[nickie*nine*doors]

I don't know if this is slightly off topic, but related in the sense of timeline for payment......Does anybody know WHY it takes so long for a Paypal e-check to clear? I don't see it being any different that using your bank card to pay for Groceries, etc. ---> the money comes out of your account INSTANTLY and is deposited to the store's account. Why does Paypal not possess the technology to do the same thing when a buyer pays out of his bank account? This would avoid shipping delays due to sellers waiting for e-checks to clear. This delay further complicates the INR process.

[*christmasangel*]

Me too. 10 days is impossible - could you put pictures in the INR process pages for the buyers please? A lot of them, sometimes myself included (though rarely) don't read and just look at the pictures. 🙂

[pal@ebay.com]

Hello nickie*nine*doors,

Thanks for your questions and sorry you have concerns. Your first concern was that 10 days is not enough -- especially for Canadian sellers who are dealing with shipping challenges. The second relates to the date of payment. Both great questions. Let me see if I can address them.

Regarding the 10-day period being too short. The Item Not Received process puts an emphasis on communication more than it does the buyer's expectation that an item should be delivered by a certain date. Most good sellers already communicate effectively with their buyers through email. When email (or phone) fail, however, buyers have no means to reach out to their sellers. There's almost nothing they can do for 30 days. That's utterly unfair to buyers who are more likely to go from "zero to panic" as a result of having no recourse to reach out to the seller over a transaction question or concern. Most good sellers who are posting here, selling on ebay.CA or eBay.com will see little to no Item Not Received initiations. With the new Item Not Received process (which replaces the old Fraud Alert), we're providing a separate channel of communication for buyers and sellers to communicate. Sellers can use the threaded discussion format to explain the shipping challenges.

On the second question... you ask about date of payment being the point from which the Item Not Received process may kick in. We thought long and hard about that. PayPal does it. Why shouldn't eBay sync up with them? The issue was one of continuity but also pragmatism. PayPal knows when a payment is made. eBay does not. Instead, eBay knows when a transaction is completed. As a result, we decided that we would focus on the transaction date since it was the only one we could be certain about. This becomes increasingly important in the event the Item Not Received escalates to a claim.

All this said, we'll certainly be keeping a close watch on the success of the program. If we need to make changes, we will.

Hope this helps.

Thanks,
Larry

[moira@ebay.com]

You are right travelwrytr, it starts up conversation that has not yet happened. It could be the best thing that happens in the transaction! Sometimes folks cannot connect with each other via email because their email filters are set high or they have a firewall. This way, they have a place to connect with each other and save the transaction and the relationship.

Moira

[*christmasangel*]

I have to say, I have had a wonderful bunch of buyers, a lot of them repeats, with very few problems, just don't want to see any problems down the road. If you people were to read the various boards answering new buyers and their expectations, I think you might know why there are concerns. I try to go into each transaction with a positive attitude trusting the other party, whether buying or selling, but there are some out there that are just the opposite. 😞

[*christmasangel*]

OK - I have no problem with the first step in the INR process, that sellers should communicate with their buyers. What happens if the seller communicates with their buyer and the buyer is still not happy?