Canadian Tax on Precious metal, gold, silver, platinium, Bullion and coins.

Hello, Sorry for my English. Ebay announces that they will nicely collect sales taxes in Canada to relieve sellers of this burden. HAHAHA, Already when you make a purchase, the global delivery program is a real failure. No shipping combination available and taxes are charged no matter what the purchase is. Some items are not taxable and some partially taxable but their programs charge 100% tax each time. Do they stupidly return them to the government or recalculate in background and keep the overpayment back. Amazon returns them to the consumer but I have never seen Ebay refund me.

 

So I asked Ebay (4 times) if there was a way for Ebay to do a better job and respect the law on tax collection correctly for Canada (Bullion, precious metals) are excluded from all taxes here. 4 times, ebay returned to the Government of Canada. How are we Coin and Bullion sellers going to deal with this? I would like to see Ebay resolve this issue before July 1st but they don't seem to be interested in doing so.

 

To be continued....

 

In the meantime, your buyers can apply to the Canadian government for a refund of overpaid taxes.

 

Julien

 

 

Message 1 of 27
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Re: Canadian Tax on Precious metal, gold, silver, platinium, Bullion and coins.

Great question.

I am under the impression that gold and silver  Canadian bullion is not taxable.

Anyone know about this?

Bert

Message 2 of 27
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Re: Canadian Tax on Precious metal, gold, silver, platinium, Bullion and coins.

marnotom!
Community Member

I'm not a coin person, but I've been trying to figure this out myself.  It seems to depend on what the definition of "bullion" is.  Some claim that it only refers to gold refined to 99.5% purity and silver to 99.9% purity.  Others claim that the gold or silver piece can be of a lesser purity and still be considered bullion.

 

All I can say with some certainty is that in order to be non-taxable, the gold or silver has to be of that "almost 100% pure" variety.  I've run across several listings where the purity of the gold or silver piece is less than that and the seller has categorized it as bullion, so I'm pretty confused.

Message 3 of 27
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Re: Canadian Tax on Precious metal, gold, silver, platinium, Bullion and coins.

Also the GSP does not apply to business to business transactions.

They do not break out what import fees are made up of, because this is irrelevant for private sales.

 

The seller would have to list in the correct category for the eBay bots to recognize that they are bullion and not coins or medallions.

 

 

Message 4 of 27
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Re: Canadian Tax on Precious metal, gold, silver, platinium, Bullion and coins.

The defenition of "bullion" is pretty clear within the Canadian tax law. 99.5%+ for gold and platinum, 99.9% for silver. The format of the item be it jewelery, coin or bar is irrelevant. It gets more complicated becausde the Royal Canadian Mint also sells collectible coins that fall into the criteria and are tax exempt. There are thousands of sellers selling these coins on eBay that buyers will now have to pay tax on.

 

Cheers

Message 5 of 27
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Re: Canadian Tax on Precious metal, gold, silver, platinium, Bullion and coins.

I asked Ebay if their systems would adjust for this type of merchandise. Talking to my cat offered me the same result. They don't know anything. If I do their programming in the United States, taxes will be charged on all, from used to new to avoid any fraud and will be up to the buyer to claim from the government the taxes paid in excess
Message 6 of 27
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Re: Canadian Tax on Precious metal, gold, silver, platinium, Bullion and coins.


@tch_ca wrote:

The defenition of "bullion" is pretty clear within the Canadian tax law. 99.5%+ for gold and platinum, 99.9% for silver. The format of the item be it jewelery, coin or bar is irrelevant. It gets more complicated becausde the Royal Canadian Mint also sells collectible coins that fall into the criteria and are tax exempt. There are thousands of sellers selling these coins on eBay that buyers will now have to pay tax on.


Is that the definition of "bullion" or the definition of "tax-free bullion" that you're referring to?  Because when I search through the "bullion" category, I find coins that don't meet the purity percentages.

 

In other words, is this a matter that bullion shouldn't be taxed because it's over 99% pure, or is that bullion shouldn't be taxed when it is over 99% pure?

Message 7 of 27
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Re: Canadian Tax on Precious metal, gold, silver, platinium, Bullion and coins.

Today July 3rd I just sold a one ounce silver bullion Canada Maple which is 99.99 % pure and eBay charged the buyer both GST and PST on it.  EBay then charged my fee based on the grossed up taxed amount.  They then charged me GST on that fee!  This made a very significant difference in my net profit.  Lawfully there should have been NO tax on this item.  

Message 8 of 27
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Re: Canadian Tax on Precious metal, gold, silver, platinium, Bullion and coins.

Ok..I'll play along..."Bullion" by defenition has no purity defined. However in general, when we refer to something as "bullion" we are referring to a precious metal that is of the "tax free" variety. Capish? As I'm sure you are aware, people can list product under whatever category they wish on eBay. Just because you list it under bullion, it doesn't make it so. In Canada, the tax free status applies to gold and platinum of purity that is 99.5% and higher and silver that is 99.9% percent and higher irrelevant of the form it is created in (coin, bar, chain, etc...).

Message 9 of 27
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Re: Canadian Tax on Precious metal, gold, silver, platinium, Bullion and coins.

It seems the only way this will resolve itself is if buyers of tax free products submit their tax refund requetsts to the CRA.

Message 10 of 27
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Re: Canadian Tax on Precious metal, gold, silver, platinium, Bullion and coins.

I believe this has also been questioned by US bullion sellers, who have a lot more weight with eBay than we do.

My suggestion, and the only gold I own is in my wedding ring, would be to set up a separate category for Bullion and to add a notice for sellers, at the time of uploading, reminding them that the category is only for "pure" bullion that meets the US standard, which I gather is the same as the Canadian one and possibly others like the EU.

The reminder being like the ones we see when listing Nazi, First Nations, or some "designer" goods. Basically a "cross my heart this meets the eBay standard" situation.

Message 11 of 27
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Re: Canadian Tax on Precious metal, gold, silver, platinium, Bullion and coins.

Most precious metals bullion in Canada is exempt from GST/HST. Provided the precious metals are defined as coins, bars, ingots, or wafers of gold, silver and platinum. Additionally, they must be refined to a minimum purity of 99.50% for Gold and Platinum, and 99.9% for silver. 

 

https://www.rktaxlaw.com/gold-platinum-silver/

 

Scrap Gold

An issue that the Canada Revenue Agency (CRA) typically has with sellers of precious metals, is the sale of scrap gold. Scrap gold is not refined to a purity of at least 99.5% and thus GST/HST is chargeable on the sale. Where this gets complicated is through the following example:

  • Lebron sells scrap gold to Steph;
  • Steph purchases more scrap gold and then sends it all to a refiner;
  • The refiner smelts down the gold and turns it into 99.5% pure; and
  • The refiner takes a fee for the service and then ships the 99.5% pure gold back to Steph.

The CRA occasionally takes the position that Steph sold the scrap gold to the refiner, and then purchases the pure gold. Why this matters is if that was indeed the case, Steph would have to charge GST/HST on the sale of the scrap gold to the refiner.

 

https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/services/forms-publications/publications/17-1/definition-fin...

Precious metals

Definition of precious metal
ss 123(1)

27. A "precious metal" is a bar, ingot, coin or wafer of gold, platinum or silver that is refined to a purity level of at least

  1. 99.5% in the case of gold and platinum, and
  2. 99.9% in the case of silver.

Policy statement
P-192, Supplies of Precious Metals

28. A precious metal in the form of a bar, ingot or wafer at the required purity levels must generally be recognized and accepted for trading on Canadian financial markets. Ordinarily, these will bear markings indicating their purity level. They will also have an identification mark of the issuing financial institution or refinery. With respect to coins, only those metals at the required purity levels that have been issued by a government authority and that may be used as currency will qualify.

29. Any supply of a precious metal (i.e., gold, platinum or silver) meeting the purity requirements, as set out in the definition of precious metal in subsection 123(1), is a supply of a financial service and generally exempt. Metals of this quality are normally investment-related and are usually bought and sold on international exchanges that establish world-wide precious metal prices.

30. The sale or purchase of a precious metal, in the course of a commercial activity, that does not comply with the defined requirements is not considered a supply of a financial instrument, but rather a supply of property. Generally, the sale of gold, platinum or silver in bar, ingot, coin or wafer form with a purity level of less than 99.5% for gold and platinum, and less than 99.9% for silver is taxable at 7% or 15%. The sale of gold, platinum or silver at the defined purity levels, but not in the form of a bar, ingot, coin or wafer (e.g., in granular form), is taxable at 7% or 15%.

Message 12 of 27
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Re: Canadian Tax on Precious metal, gold, silver, platinium, Bullion and coins.


@tch_ca wrote:

Ok..I'll play along..."Bullion" by defenition has no purity defined. However in general, when we refer to something as "bullion" we are referring to a precious metal that is of the "tax free" variety. Capish?


Thanks so much for this.  I'm really not trying to troll you about this.  I appreciate that you probably get more than your fair share share of numpties, tire-kickers, and simply unpleasant charactrers in your business, but trust me, I'm not one of them, even if I do come off like Joe Friday on these boards.  If you get a moment, Google "bullion definition" and you'll find that the different takes on the term can get really confusing for a "non-metal" person.


@tch_ca wrote:

 

It seems the only way this will resolve itself is if buyers of tax free products submit their tax refund requetsts to the CRA.


My understanding from the posts on this subject is that eBay will take care of refunds of inappropriately charged taxes.  Seeing as CRA didn't assess or collect the taxes (unlike, say, a postal import), they may not be in a position to refund until there's evidence that eBay's remitted the improperly collected tax.  Besides, who wants to bother with snail-mailing CRA and waiting for a cheque?

 

Message 13 of 27
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Re: Canadian Tax on Precious metal, gold, silver, platinium, Bullion and coins.

I wrote formal complaint letters to eBay CEO "Jamie Iannone" and North America director "Jordan Sweetnam" and mailed the 2 letters to this address:
Ebay Inc.
2025 Hamilton Avenue
San Jose, California 95125
USA

 

Please keep esclating this.

Message 14 of 27
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Re: Canadian Tax on Precious metal, gold, silver, platinium, Bullion and coins.

good job bud. this tax on bullions thing is rediculous.

Message 15 of 27
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Re: Canadian Tax on Precious metal, gold, silver, platinium, Bullion and coins.

It's not so "rediculous" when you consider how eBay has had to set up the process of applying tax to sales when the system doesn't know exactly what is being sold.  Annoying as Hades, no question, but like any automated system, you get out what you put into it.

Message 16 of 27
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Re: Canadian Tax on Precious metal, gold, silver, platinium, Bullion and coins.

marnotom!
Community Member

It's suddenly occurred to me that CRA may not entertain requests for refunds of inappropriate tax charges if they know eBay has taken on this responsibility, as it opens the door for double-dipping.

Message 17 of 27
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Re: Canadian Tax on Precious metal, gold, silver, platinium, Bullion and coins.

Hi there, Julian

I recently had two sales of silver bullion on Ebay in the US and Canada, and each sale was charged tax.  I am stuck for words that this issue has not been thought though before Ebay applied the law on behalf of the Canadian Gov.  I called Ebay and they had no answers that would meet any satifaction at all.

Buyers of silver and gold bullion will shop elsewhere, and I really do not blame them, its unfair, its illigal and it neds to stop period 

Message 18 of 27
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Re: Canadian Tax on Precious metal, gold, silver, platinium, Bullion and coins.


@marnotom! wrote:

It's suddenly occurred to me that CRA may not entertain requests for refunds of inappropriate tax charges if they know eBay has taken on this responsibility, as it opens the door for double-dipping.


Why, even after its release there isn't a process in place to handle "appeals". How long, if ever will it take for eBay to come up with one? For both sellers AND buyers!!! Remember when it took 6 + weeks to fix the price discrepancy (sellers expense) for Small Packet Services beginning of last year or the we lost your photos....you're on your own bruhaha, previous to that?

 

-Lotz

Message 19 of 27
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Re: Canadian Tax on Precious metal, gold, silver, platinium, Bullion and coins.

Why is bullion exempt in the first place?

What is special about it that buying and selling is tax-free?

Message 20 of 27
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