eBay

ccec5463 · ‎05-06-2022

I just had an experience where a valuable vintage stereo receiver purchased through the GSP was shipped from the seller in California to the Erlanger distribution centre, signed for and then after a few days of delay, deemed "oversized" and would not be shipped either to the buyer nor the seller! After calling ebay to find out more information, they quickly initiated a refund process which I did not want. A refund was issued within 48 hours despite my stating that I wanted to know why this item is being held at their warehouse. After contacting the seller, he also informed me that many times he was given a different story about this item. After many calls to get the item back, the seller was finally told that the item was LOST and could not be found and a refund was issued to close this case. I called again numerous times to get clarification and after much prompting was FINALLY told the same thing, that the item was not oversized but has gone missing! I was also told that an investigation would be opened and to call PITNEY BOWES directly. Of course after called PB, I was immediately dismissed and refused to even be spoken to.

eBay will stonewall, delay, tell you anything on the phone and then quickly close your case after you have hung up when you have to then start all over again with another customer representative who goes through the same official line with you. This is their tactic to tire customers out so that they give up on finding their items and finding out the truth.

The item in question could not simply be misplaced as it was rather large and pretty rare. I informed eBay that it had several distinguishing features and a serial number which I am trying to work with the seller in reporting as missing and if so deemed, stolen, so that in the case it resurfaces for reselling or repair it could be traced back. eBay's final explanation to me was that it will not and does not investigate anything regarding its parter Pitney Bowes and "trusts" that they follow a strict code of conduct. They also told hid behind their GSP policies which basically give them free reign and releases them from any accountability.

This item is somewhere, misplaced by someone, (for lack of a better word). eBay and Pitney Bowes were untruthful to both the buyer and seller about this item right from the beginning and I don't trust anything this company does or says anymore. I not only got a rare and desirable item taken from me, but I got significantly shortchanged as a result of the mulitple foreign exhange conversion rates for buying and selling.

I have no idea how such a large company like this can operate and just take or withhold any items they seem fit to do so without adequate explanation. Many items bought and sold on eBay are irreplacable and cannot be found easily on other platforms. If you have anything of value to buy and sell and you value its importance, DO NOT USE THE GLOBAL SHIPPING PROGRAM and eBay in general for that matter. eBay and their partner Pitney Bowes seem to have a license to do anything they want and not be held accountable.

Terrible, just terrible.

marnotom! · ‎05-06-2022

The "official" reason why the shipment didn't make it should be posted on one of the Pitney Bowes tracking sites. Have your "UPAA" tracking number ready:

https://parceltracking.pb.com

https://tracking.pb.com

How vintage are we talking about here? Are we talking about a Japanese-made receiver from the 70s or something American-made from way back? The Global Shipping Program gets squicked out about handling items that might have mercury-filled vacuum tubes in it and tends to impound anything where there's even the remote possibility of them being present.

There's also the possibility of computer error. A bot generally goes through the "item specifics" the seller provides in the listing and sometimes misinterprets something in the description that triggers an "exemption" warning that dead-ends the shipment.

When the GSP was first unleashed in 2013, "antiques" was not a supported category. While I've had great success in having cell phones shipped through the GSP quickly and inexpensively, I'm not sure I'd want to have a vintage or antique item sent that way. Too much could go wrong. Sorry this happened to you.

ccec5463 · ‎05-06-2022

There was nothing hazerdous about the item being shipped. It was vintage and valuable and the only way I could purchase from the seller at the time. No bots here, spoke with many a representative from eBay personally, all deflected, stalled and outright lied about status of item.

Please see attached youtube videos about the item and its description.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0D1YBBiupk AND

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrf0FwyoCwc

The item has distiguishing characteristics as well as a serial number. There are only so many left in the world today. If and when this item re surfaces, hopefully it will be traced back to whomever had a hand in its dissapearance. I have already explained this to eBay who didn't care. Pitney Bowes tracking is worthless, just says the same useless non sensical explanation that eBay regurgitates to its customers.

marnotom! · ‎05-06-2022

The "eBay reps" you spoke with on the phone are likely poorly-trained subcontractors who can only speculate on the transaction given the limited amount of information they have to work with. You might have more luck through eBay's online chat function or through the Facebook or Twitter contacts that are linked at the bottom of most eBay pages (desktop version) as those are helmed by actual eBay employees.

Did you check one of the tracking pages as I suggested to see if there's a reason given as to why your item dead-ended?

femmefan1946 · ‎05-06-2022

https://twitter.com/askebay?lang=en

  https://www.facebook.com/eBayForBusiness/ — Message button in upper right on landing page.

  https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/How-do-I-contact-Customer-Support/m-p/32016431#M1783851

These accounts are covered by actual employees.

A refund was issued within 48 hours despite my stating that I wanted to know why this item is being held at their warehouse.

So not actually stolen.

And you got your money back.

OTOH.

It is still possible that some minimum wage plonker at the Erlanger plant will put the stereo on a truck and send it on to you in Canada.

If that happens, and the purchase arrives, GSP does not want either your money or the stereo back.

So you might end up with a free stereo.

Certainly that has been reported often in cases where the "lost" item was merely delayed in shipping.

marnotom! · ‎05-06-2022

I think I may have found the problem. Thanks for the video to help ID the receiver, @ccec5463.

I found under "completed listings" a Marantz 2600 that sold for US$8000 on March 24. The maximum value for an item handled by the Global Shipping Program to Canada is US$2500, so the receiver blows that limit apart.

The thing that mystifies me is that the listing doesn't say that the receiver is being shipped by the Global Shipping Program, but rather, eBay's International Standard Delivery service, which is a completely different ball of wax and one that's still a bit of a mystery to most of us in Canada.

Even if this isn't the sale in question, if these receivers are commanding those kind of prices, you're not going to see it getting handled by the Global Shipping Program.

lotzofuniquegoodies · ‎05-06-2022

@marnotom! wrote:
I think I may have found the problem. Thanks for the video to help ID the receiver, @ccec5463.

I found under "completed listings" a Marantz 2600 that sold for US$8000 on March 24. The maximum value for an item handled by the Global Shipping Program to Canada is US$2500, so the receiver blows that limit apart.

The thing that mystifies me is that the listing doesn't say that the receiver is being shipped by the Global Shipping Program, but rather, eBay's International Standard Delivery service, which is a completely different ball of wax and one that's still a bit of a mystery to most of us in Canada.

Even if this isn't the sale in question, if these receivers are commanding those kind of prices, you're not going to see it getting handled by the Global Shipping Program.

If GSP has dollar limits why is the system set up to allow items to use that service. It's similar to when an item is blocked for being over the maximum on dot ca. Example. 2.1 Kg package with tracked/Small Pkt air to USA. If it's a known then don't allow it.

The label in the video does seem to direct it to Erlanger KY.

-Lotz

ccec5463 · ‎05-06-2022

I am going to clarify a few statements that have come up in this thread. As for ebay reps being non trained and inexperienced, I had received a message from an ebay manager whose title was "Global Shipping Specialist" who had informed me that they would not investegate. As for the technical definition of "stolen", where I come from, taking something that doesn't belong to you is stealing. Subsequently, despite having received a refund, I was significantly shortchanged by the foreign exhange rate. In other words, ripped off. I know this wasnt ebay's fault directly but their actions triggered a loss for me. As for the unit itself, I know the one that was mentioned for $8000.00 was not the unit in question. The unit in question has been wiped from ebay search and sold history, hmmm interesting, (maybe because they cancelled the order not sure). As for the item being delivered eventually and potentially getting a free item, I WILL RECANT EVERYTHING I HAVE SAID ON THIS FORUM IF THAT HAPPENS AND APOLOGIZE. Thank you all for your support.

marnotom! · ‎05-06-2022

@lotzofuniquegoodies wrote:
If GSP has dollar limits why is the system set up to allow items to use that service. It's similar to when an item is blocked for being over the maximum on dot ca. Example. 2.1 Kg package with tracked/Small Pkt air to USA. If it's a known then don't allow it.

Well, remember when the GSP was first unleashed, we were told that the "system" would prevent items being listed in prohibited categories. Not sure if that works in practice, but I don't recall anything about the "system" preventing items over a certain dollar value to be listed. I suspect that the difficulty in having such a block is that the dollar value varies according to country or region. The information is all there for those wanting more information on the program, anyway. The seller could have done a bit more homework, IMO:

https://pages.ebay.com/seller-center/shipping/ebay-global-shipping-program.html#m17-2-tb4

@lotzofuniquegoodies wrote:

The label in the video does seem to direct it to Erlanger KY.

My limited understanding of International Standard Delivery is that some--but not all--shipments handled by ISD may go through Erlanger, but I'm guessing that in this case it wouild more likely go through a mail consolidator based in California, as that's where the seller is located. (I watched the video again and noted that the return address is in northern Cali. The listing I found was based out of southern Cali.)

marnotom! · ‎05-06-2022

@ccec5463 wrote:

I am going to clarify a few statements that have come up in this thread. As for ebay reps being non trained and inexperienced, I had received a message from an ebay manager whose title was "Global Shipping Specialist" who had informed me that they would not investegate. As for the technical definition of "stolen", where I come from, taking something that doesn't belong to you is stealing. Subsequently, despite having received a refund, I was significantly shortchanged by the foreign exhange rate. In other words, ripped off. I know this wasnt ebay's fault directly but their actions triggered a loss for me. As for the unit itself, I know the one that was mentioned for $8000.00 was not the unit in question. The unit in question has been wiped from ebay search and sold history, hmmm interesting, (maybe because they cancelled the order not sure)

Okay, I think I found the item for reals this time. The seller repairs/restores and sells vintage high-end stereo equipment and is based out of northern California. The receiver sold on April 9 for US$8500, so again, we're looking at a case of it being too expensive for the GSP to handle. As I noted in my previous post, I think your seller should have done a bit more homework on the GSP before listing this with the GSP applied to it.

As for your item being "stolen," according to the buyer terms and conditions for the GSP, title to the item would have been with the seller at the time, not the buyer. Thieves also don't give their buyers refunds.

Section 9, if you're interested:

https://pages.ebay.com/shipping/globalshipping/buyer-tnc.html

Having said all that, I do think it's a bit weird that two different sellers out of California would have the same type of receiver for sale at around the same time with similarly worded descriptions and both sellers offering to send videos of the receiver doing its stuff. Just sayin'.

ccec5463 · ‎05-06-2022

The theif is not the seller: LOOK HERE!!!!!! I have reported this to ebay who has opened a security file. THE SELLER AND I MAY STILL NOT GET THIS ITEM BACK! WORKING ON IT!

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/165470074664

RESPOND TO THAT???!!!

marnotom! · ‎05-06-2022

@ccec5463 wrote:

The theif is not the seller:

Never said I thought it was. Not trying to troll you here. I'm just trying to point out why things likely shook out the way they did. Pitney Bowes DBA The Global Shipping Program doesn't consider items to belong to the buyer until they're delivered.

@ccec5463 wrote:

I have reported this to ebay who has opened a security file. THE SELLER AND I MAY STILL NOT GET THIS ITEM BACK! WORKING ON IT!

Considering that you've been refunded (as best as possible given the nature of exchange rates) and the seller still has your payment, it does seem unlikely that the receiver will be returned or shipped out. Still, weirder things have happened on eBay.

@ccec5463 wrote:

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/165470074664

RESPOND TO THAT???!!!

Looks as though that seller didn't offer shipping outside of the United States on that one. Probably a smart move on their part. If I wanted that receiver, I'd probably have it sent to a trusted friend in the States. I'm not sure a forwarding agent such as MyUS.com would handle an item of that value and even if it did, I'd be SOL if something happened to it en route to my home on Vancouver Island.

femmefan1946 · ‎05-07-2022

About currency exchange.

The Buy rate and the Sell rate are always going to be different.

And currencies rise and fall in value not just daily but minute by minute.

This website is one of the more commonly used when estimating currency exchanges. It covers "mid-market rates" which are the rates used by international banks and financial companies in mult-million dollar/riyal/ remimbi/ rupee/ etc deals.

Those are wholesale rates not the retail rate we get from the bank on the corner.

If you click on the arrow between the two currencies they will switch from buy to sell.

https://www.xe.com/currencyconverter/convert/?Amount=1&From=USD&To=CAD

Keep in mind that banks are in business to make money. This is one of their profit centres.

ccec5463 · ‎05-07-2022

Ok, hopefully this will be my final post as I am exhausted and hope to never have to do this again. I called ebay security regarding the same item being listed by a different seller. The security employee gave me a reference number and said they would investigate. He sounded surprised by the posting too. He did tell me however that neither the original seller, nor myself would be contacted or kept up to speed. The seller was explicitly told to "purchase the item if he wanted it back."

This prompted me to do some research and I found this website:

https://boards.cgccomics.com/topic/499748-ever-wonder-where-your-ebay-items-even-comics-go-if-they-a...

What ebay and Pitney Bowes have done is simply sell my purchased item (THE EXACT SAME ITEM WITH THE EXACT SAME DESCRIPTION), to this reseller on ebay who put it up for sale at a higher price! THIS IS HOW EBAY WORKS. My only option is to purchase the item and have it shipped to a US address at the border to pick up. EBAY PROVIDES ZERO COMMUNICATION WITH THEIR CUSTOMERS, a simple explanation would have avoided countles days of rancour and wild goose chases to try to find this item. I cannot tell you how disheartened I am with ebay.

I would recommend to steer clear from ebay cross border shipping altogether if you really want the item. I would also avoid dealing with ebay if you can as every purchase is a **bleep**shoot. At least I found the answer what happened NO THANKS TO EBAY. Hope this helps us all make better decisions regarding our ebay purchases. Thank you all for your help and input.

femmefan1946 · ‎05-07-2022

Yes.

Once the seller was paid, he no longer owned the thing.

Once you were refunded (by GSP/PB) you no longer owned the thing.

The one who paid for it owned the thing.

Which I would guess is GSP/PB.

And they have the right to resell it.

You have both the right to rebuy it and the absolute right to be very angry about the mess since as you say neither of the principals involved were informed of the problem.

And the Global Shipping Program was designed to protect sellers against false Not Delivered claims and to encourage US and UK sellers to ship over seas.

There is nothing in the program for buyers.

marnotom! · ‎05-07-2022

I worked at an electronics store for over a dozen years. I have a boom box approaching its fortieth birthday that I won't let go of despite my wife's pleadings. I'm a bit of a nostalgia/history geek. I get how people can get passionate over electronics, particularly audio equipment.

In the bronze age of eBay, my wife and I also sold on a co-worker's behalf a pair of high-end speakers to a US buyer. Getting them shipped with insurance and tracking was incredibly challenging at the time and probably still is, so I can see why there's a dollar limit on shipments made through the Global Shipping Program.

What I'm saying is that I can feel your pain here, but I also feel I have some appreciation for the difficulties faced by the GSP, despite the fact that many impediments to trade between the US and Canada have been knocked down since the Second World War.

As far as Pitney Bowes and eBay are concerned, this is a business transaction. The fact that the buyer and seller are custodians of electronics history doesn't enter into this. The GSP was unable to forward the receiver, but the buyer and seller shouldn't be hung out to dry on this. There's no mechanism for the GSP to get the money from the seller for the return of the item, and the buyer needs a refund, so both parties get to keep their item and as per their terms and conditions, the GSP disposes of the undeliverable item to recoup their losses in allowing both parties to keep the funds for the sale (more or less).

It was suggested that your seller repurchase the receiver (which was not the one in the link you posted, BTW, which led me to respond the way I did) because your seller still has the money from the sale of the receiver to you. Given that the GSP really isn't structured to return deliverable items, this seems to be the only alternative, unfortunately.

When all is said and done, though, I think we have to lay the responsibility for this situation with the seller, who should have read more about the GSP's restrictions and shouldn't have listed this item with the GSP applied to it in the first place. Unfortunately, sellers aren't paying into the program the way we buyers are, aren't subject to terms and conditions the way we buyers are, and as a result they tend to get away with a lot more than the buyers do as a result.

centrifugal_bumblepuppy · ‎07-19-2023

I'm in Canada, and have now had 2 packages go 'missing' this year alone, in addition to one that disappeared last year! In all 3 cases, the package was sent using the Global Shipping Program, so they had a PBI tracking number. The tracking always shows "warning - exception: package was scanned by the wrong driver". This sounds absurd -- in 2023 it should not be difficult to get a package to its destination without it being lost!

All 3 times, the item I was attempting to purchase was a type of electronics -- the first was a car stereo, the last 2 were both synthesizers. So I believe they are targeting specific types of items, since that would be noted on the customs form on the outside of the package. The first 2 times I was able to get refunds, and have just finished applying for a refund for the 3rd. Not a huge issue at the end of the day since you do get your money back, but quite a hassle, especially if the item you ordered was rare, or you got an especially good deal on it which would be hard to find again.

There's no question in my mind that theft is occuring through this program, so I will no longer be using it going forward.

lotzofuniquegoodies · ‎07-19-2023

@centrifugal_bumblepuppy wrote:
I'm in Canada, and have now had 2 packages go 'missing' this year alone, in addition to one that disappeared last year! In all 3 cases, the package was sent using the Global Shipping Program, so they had a PBI tracking number. The tracking always shows "warning - exception: package was scanned by the wrong driver". This sounds absurd -- in 2023 it should not be difficult to get a package to its destination without it being lost!

All 3 times, the item I was attempting to purchase was a type of electronics -- the first was a car stereo, the last 2 were both synthesizers. So I believe they are targeting specific types of items, since that would be noted on the customs form on the outside of the package. The first 2 times I was able to get refunds, and have just finished applying for a refund for the 3rd. Not a huge issue at the end of the day since you do get your money back, but quite a hassle, especially if the item you ordered was rare, or you got an especially good deal on it which would be hard to find again.

There's no question in my mind that theft is occuring through this program, so I will no longer be using it going forward.

@centrifugal_bumblepuppy

devon@ebay

Hello Devon,

Do you know if eBay is doing any sort of information campaign firstly with eBay sellers to let them know there may be problems with certain types of listings (especially electronics) and buyers so they could know this might be a potential issue with any similar types of purchases. This is has been reported numerous time on both boards as being an issue. The end result is a bad experience for both buyer and seller and could be causing both to jump ship. This was never a big a problem prior to GSP and now going forward with EIS. Buyers making a purchase and having it cancelled midstream is not a good look for eBay and its sellers.

Thanks,

-Lotzofunquegoodies.

marnotom! · ‎07-19-2023

@centrifugal_bumblepuppy wrote:

There's no question in my mind that theft is occuring through this program, so I will no longer be using it going forward.

Just to confirm, these items were all forwarded by the older and soon to be discontinued Global Shipping Program—an older forwarding service co-ordinated by Pitney Bowes—and not the newer eBay International Shipping service (co-ordinated by EasyShip, I think) which is replacing the GSP?

reallynicestamps · ‎07-19-2023

ZOMBIE THREAD FROM 2022

The problem with zombie threads is that the information may be out of date and incorrect.

In this case, the shipment was more expensive than the GSP handles, there is some question if the shipping was handled by GSP or eIS, and the buyer and seller were both made good for the value of the shipment.

@centrifugal_bumblepuppy

You would be best to start your own thread about your losses (preferably with dates and values since those seem to have some bearing) to get useful advice.