A hole in the system where seller loses 100%?

[luckylegend]

I sold my gucci shoes to a buyer in UK and shipped it in a timely manner the next day.

They contacted in a week saying that they need to pay 20 pounds in customs to their country. They also said that upon refusal they will reject package and claim money back with paypal.

I called paypal and they confirmed that even if the tracking shows attempted delivery, if the last tracking does not show delivered then a full refund will be forced out of my account.

It leaves me with loss on delivery both ways (62*2=124cad) and commissions (40cad). Not even sure I get back my package.

Are we actually that vulnerable to such an extortion? That is simply sad. I don’t think anybody will ship international after such a burn, never again!

[luckylegend]

Tell me about it? From my research PP work same way chargebacks do... this is to refund buyer immediately as they do not have the product on hand.

[luckylegend]

I spoke to ebay they told me I receive back fees no matter how refund happened. But good advise I will remember that

[sylviebee]

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@pjcdn2005 wrote:

You should still wait for the buyer to open a claim through PP before you refund.  

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Yes........... and then post here how that works out.   I'd like to know the result.

As I said:  I opened a PP case recently and it was actually much more complicated than it used to be.

[pjcdn2005]

Yes I've done a chargeback  (but not through PP) and had to fill out an affadavit or something like that.  But in that case my number had been stolen and the charges were made in places I had never been to. It was a pain but not that difficult.  But I don't think this is cc chargeback situation??

I agree that PP shouldn't refund because it is obvious on the tracking that the item is available for delivery at the buyers local post office but in unlike ebays seller protection info,  I haven't seen anything in PP's terms of use that suggests that they will protect the seller in that situation.

[luckylegend]

Yes of course I will tell you when there is any movement

Tell me how it is more difficult, thank you

Also I am still waiting for somebody to say “iwas in your situation but I did ___ and then I won”

[sylviebee]

Just one reason the scenario you're describing is hard to buy:

If I ship the item on the PP site and it doesn't get delivered for whatever reason, I'm covered by PP as long as I shipped to the PP address.

The situation you've described directly contradicts that protection.

[sylviebee]

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@luckylegend wrote:
Yes of course I will tell you when there is any movement

Tell me how it is more difficult, thank you

Also I am still waiting for somebody to say “iwas in your situation but I did ___ and then I won”

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The first thing is to find out if the buyer even has a PP opening to file such a case when the item was shipped with tracking.

[luckylegend]

and you are not covered in the case you described....

[luckylegend]

Yes they do have PP because they gave me their email so I can send money to their PP

[sylviebee]

It sounds like you're saying that sellers are covered with PP protection which covers sellers as long as they ship to the address the buyer has on file, but that's null and void if the buyer refuses the package.

That makes no sense.

[pjcdn2005]

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@sylviebee wrote:

Just one reason the scenario you're describing is hard to buy:

If I ship the item on the PP site and it doesn't get delivered for whatever reason, I'm covered by PP as long as I shipped to the PP address.

The situation you've described directly contradicts that protection.

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No, you're not. If you ship to the payment address and the package gets lost, you are not covered by either PP or ebay.  

[lotzofuniquegoodies]

@luckylegend 

If the buyer looked at your listing(s) it clearly states the following:

International items may be subject to customs processing and additional charges

Sellers set the item's declared value and must comply with customs declaration laws.

 As the buyer, you should be aware of possible:

- delays from customs inspection.

- import duties and taxes which buyers must pay.

- brokerage fees payable at the point of delivery.

Has this fineprint become irrelevant/and or is it contradicting itself in eBay/Paypal's eyes?

-Lotz

[sylviebee]

You're right PJ.  If an item gets lost that's another story.

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[luckylegend]

You are not covered like pjcdn said.

So item not received because it’s lost is equivalent to item not received because refused by buyer.

[luckylegend]

The fact that they are responsible doesn’t mean they will pay it. And when they don’t want to pay it and refuse the package.in paypal’s eyes you failed your duty to deliver product. BAM all the money is refunded without question ( including shipping).

Also, do not confuse disputes through ebay and disputes through paypal.

The buyer can dispute item not received with ebay and you show proof the buyer just didn’t want to pay customs and refused to pick-up. You win.
But then the same buyer can go and open a case of item not received with paypal, and Paypal will rule quickly against you.
You will lose all money.

This is why experienced extorsionist like the one I am dealing with. Will not waste time with ebay, but go claim with PP ...

[sylviebee]

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@luckylegend wrote:
You are not covered like pjcdn said.

So item not received because it’s lost is equivalent to item not received because refused by buyer.

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I don't see the similarity.  If an item is lost there's insurance if one chose to buy it and eBay/PP can't be responsible for that type of loss.

In your situation, the first step is see if the buyer can even open a PP case for Item Not Received, and so far it sounds like that hasn't happened.

Keep us posted.

[luckylegend]

It’s similar that in both cases the payment will be refunded right away without investigation.

How you deal with it of course is different. If it’s lost you claim insurance with the post obviously... but that doesn’t matter.

[esclyons]

ok. so i had a case similar 2 years ago. a buyer purchased approx. 200$ worth of coins, and wrote me 2 days after they shipped, that he really didn't want them, and would refuse them when he received them. I told him, that was fine, i would issue a full refund, minus shipping, as that money was already spent, and i also informed him, if the item came back with postage due, he would be responsible for that as well..  So he held true, and refused the package, it came back to me 5-6 days later, with no postage due. So at that point i refunded him, the original purchase price, less the shipping,  he was happy with that.. That was my situation, hopefully some of it may prove helpful to you.

[luckylegend]

That’s great that there are nice buyers like that.

In my case he said that “pay my customs or I claim paypal money back and you lose all including shipping”

[reallynicestamps]

The moon is made of blue cheese and the tardigrades there are planning to invade Malawi on Tuesday the 15th and make me Empress of Indonesia.

See ! I wrote that and it's on the internet so it must be true!

Your scammer can say what he wants. Whether Paypal will  refund him, particularly when you add all those threatening messages is another question.

You may want to call PP's Resolution Centre in advance of any action and notify them of the threat. I doubt any such action on his part would succeed.

Which is too bad 'cause I'd really like to be Empress of Indonesia.