About FB, Continued from Previous Thread

Femme, I know I’m not going to change your mind about FB and trust me, I have no intention of trying to do that, but since you asked I’ll explain the way I see this and other FB issues.

 

Experienced and serious buyers have learned never to leave NFB because it only comes back to bite them.
Smart buyers don’t leave NFB, and crooks who are good at what they do don’t either.

 

Buyers who leave NFB were usually in some kind of shouting match with the seller and use NFB to land a final blow and what we see most of the time with NFB is an act of vengeance and the culmination of an exchange of nasty messages between buyer and seller.


If eBay stopped allowing members to view FB left for others we’d

 

1). See a lot more NFB with honest assessments of the service.

 

2.) Sales for good sellers would increase for two reasons.  First they'd stop banning buyers who leave NFB.  It gives some sellers the allusion on control but it's not real.  Second, honest FB would steer buyers towards better sellers (like you) because buyers would have the opportunity to see what’s really gong on behind the scenes.

 

In general, the practice of leaving FB is barbaric. eBay was the first to ritualize Public Shaming with the FB process. I don’t think anyone was prepared for the power of that kind of public shaming, but now that we know it’s high time to put a stop to that abusive practice.
eBay stopped allowing sellers to leave NFB for buyers and it’s high time to stop allowing buyers to leave NFB for sellers, but the next step could be to stop allowing sellers to vet buyers according to FB left of others.  

 

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About FB, Continued from Previous Thread

Context http://community.ebay.ca/t5/Seller-Central/Cost-to-return-an-order-and-international-Ebay-rules/m-p/... Message 13 and onward.

 

While I tend to think like femmfan on this front, I also think you make an interesting point and one that I had really not considered before you made it. 

 

Personally, I don't mind when conversations (or threads) go off-topic, as I find that's usually when the most interesting things are said because people are no longer confined by the parameters initially set. Allowing people to brainstorm and set minds to wander gets the creative juices flowing and facilities big picture problem-solving. 

 

 

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About FB, Continued from Previous Thread

I do, however, think the NFB serves some kind of purpose as there are many bad sellers out there. More than bad buyers, I'd hazard to guess. With only Cancelled Ordered and Unresolved Returns (plus orders delivered late) counting as the cardinal sins of selling here, NFB is like the last possible way a buyer can gauge whether to choose that seller or not.

 

Mind you, I have a remarkable low rate of reciprocated feedback for all my efforts to overcompensate. 

 

But if not Feedback, what then to police bad sellers?

 

What ebay does behind-the-scene provides absolutely ZERO satisfaction to buyers who've been wronged.

 

A public version of the Sellers Dashboard to keep every seller honest?

 

More than Feedback Left for Others, I want to see how many cases of INR or Cancelled Orders a buyer has lodged. Could I see that instead? 

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About FB, Continued from Previous Thread

silviebee - to repeat what I wrote on the other thread:

 

"Experienced and serious buyers have learned never to leave NFB because it only comes back to bite them.
Smart buyers don’t leave NFB, and crooks who are good at what they do don’t either."

 

I have seen many strange statements by posters on eBay boards over the years.  However, this one takes the top spot.

 

The facts are that most experienced and serious buyers do leave feedback.  I have the numbers to prove it.

 

Some buyers do not.  They come here to buy and do not care about leaving feedback.  It is not relevant to them. That's OK.  It is a free world and leaving feedback is optional.

 

Finally those suffering from advanced paranoia do not leave feedback.

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About FB, Continued from Previous Thread

My rate of reciprocal feedback sits at 20 per cent of transactions. Or less.

 

To clarify your statement: Are you saying my buyers are not serious? Or that they are not experienced? Or that they are paranoid?

 

Today's reality of buying and selling on ebay is that MOST buyers simply cannot be bothered to leave feedback. They have more important things to do. 

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About FB, Continued from Previous Thread


@pierrelebel wrote:

 

 


@pierrelebel wrote:

 

 

"Experienced and serious buyers have learned never to leave NFB because it only comes back to bite them.
Smart buyers don’t leave NFB, and crooks who are good at what they do don’t either."

 

................. this one takes the top spot.

 

 


Pierre, Proud to be your Number One!

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About FB, Continued from Previous Thread


@sylviebee wrote:

@pierrelebel wrote:

 

 


@pierrelebel wrote:

 

 

"Experienced and serious buyers have learned never to leave NFB because it only comes back to bite them.
Smart buyers don’t leave NFB, and crooks who are good at what they do don’t either."

 

................. this one takes the top spot.

 

 


Pierre, Proud to be your Number One!


That's GOLD! I actually Laughed Out Loud. 

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About FB, Continued from Previous Thread

hlmacdon
Community Member

@sylviebee wrote:


If eBay stopped allowing members to view FB left for others we’d

 

1). See a lot more NFB with honest assessments of the service.

 

2.) Sales for good sellers would increase for two reasons.  First they'd stop banning buyers who leave NFB.  It gives some sellers the allusion on control but it's not real.  Second, honest FB would steer buyers towards better sellers (like you) because buyers would have the opportunity to see what’s really gong on behind the scenes.

 

In general, the practice of leaving FB is barbaric. eBay was the first to ritualize Public Shaming with the FB process. I don’t think anyone was prepared for the power of that kind of public shaming, but now that we know it’s high time to put a stop to that abusive practice.


Buyers who are inclined to leave negative feedback are going to do so regardless if their ID is visible or not. The percentage of buyers who don't leave negative feedback out of fear for their "public image" and possible seller blocks linked to that is going to be a small subset of buyers. The percentage of people who actually care or are bothered enough to leave feedback in general is low. It is the same with product reviews.

 

Having worked in ecommerce as a buyer there are plenty of times where I have come across a substandard product with known issues. The percentage of negative reviews left by customers was regularly a small number relative to the number of sales and returns, even in cases where a flaw was prevalent or serious enough for a product to eventually get pulled from sale. These would be classified as a highly considered purchase due to the nature of the product, so the customers have a level of time and emotional investment. Now granted that is an evaluation of a product versus a service, but it is still illustrative that even in cases where a customer Is inconvenienced, disappointed, and invested they don't necessarily leave feedback. To give another example, there are various popular external retailer review sites that focus solely on the service end. Looking up the lifetime history of reviews for a particular retailer I am familiar with, they have several thousand lifetime reviews. Said retailer does that main transactions in a span of 2-3 days on average. They maintain a 9.5/10 rating despite committing just about every retail sin possible and there being other good alternative sources to buy from.

 

Unless one is a hyper paranoid seller the only time a seller should even be looking at a buyer's feedback left for others is when there is a significant problem. At that point a seller is likely already going to be predisposed to blocking the buyer because of whatever issue they may be perceiving or experiencing. A "good" or experienced seller is not going to block a buyer who leaves reasonable

negative feedback so it won't effect their sales. There are times when you need to fire a customer and a good seller is going to know when that time is.

 

Negative ratings are a reality of ecommerce, they aren't going away. For a marketplace it is their liability coverage. From what you wrote it seems like your primary concern is that the sales of good actor sellers are being limited because not enough negative feedback is being left for bad actor sellers. If you eliminate negative feedback what is left to distinguish a good actor from a bad actor? For better or worse buyers are more motivated by price and availability than the qualitative assessment of a seller.

 

I sympathize with your point generally that good actors don't necessarily receive feedback that reflects the better level of service they provide and that it is difficult for that level of service to translate into buyers choosing the good actor over the bad actor. Buyers can't always get a good picture of what goes on behind the scenes to make one a good actor versus a bad actor, aside from repeated purchases from both types of sellers.

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About FB, Continued from Previous Thread


@mjwl2006 wrote:

 

 

But if not Feedback, what then to police bad sellers?

 

 


I think that eBay is doing an excellent job of trying to police bad sellers.  When they started requiring that sellers pay return shipping for SNAD items that was a huge step.  The rules are in place.

 

However, I'm puzzled as to why it hasn't had more effect than it has, but to hazard a guess I think that too many buyers suck it up rather than confront shoddy sellers because buyers don't like conflict.  

 

Others here are much better than I am at keeping track of eBay rules etc., but is NFB even a defect any longer?  I do know that eBay took the teeth right of NFB a while ago as far as rating sellers is concerned.  

 

IMO NFB serves no purpose other than to publicly shame the seller at the receiving end, and that's very powerful.  With all the issues associated with social media bullying and shaming FB should also be a part of that discussion.

 

I've encountered dozens of horrible sellers with 100% PFB so I no longer believe any of it.   Also, reading endless testimonials here, on these boards, it's easy to see that NFB is usually the result of buyer and seller disagreements and often not deserved.   Sellers who won't back down because they feel they are in the "right" get NFB but that's more about personality issues than it's about the items being sold.

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About FB, Continued from Previous Thread


@hlmacdon wrote:

Having worked in ecommerce as a buyer .....................


Just curious:  You had a job as an online buyer?

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About FB, Continued from Previous Thread

to follow this up, i would like to see something done to help inexperienced buyers, with all their purchases from asian sellers..there is way to many buyers coming to the boards to complain about not receiving their orders from overseas..perhaps ebay should be sending a reminder to buyers, it has been 60days since you purchased your item, have you received it, do you need us to step in..then ebay would have a true idea of how bad some of these sellers really are..

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About FB, Continued from Previous Thread

Yes. How many of those poor buyers never get their stuff, never get their money back, never return to eBay?
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About FB, Continued from Previous Thread

And the honest China sellers whose stuff has been delayed by Customs inspection... they deserve some sort of support too.
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About FB, Continued from Previous Thread

Also, reading endless testimonials here, on these boards, it's easy to see that NFB is usually the result of buyer and seller disagreements and often not deserved.  

 

Sellers who won't back down because they feel they are in the "right" get NFB but that's more about personality issues than it's about the items being sold.

 

 

I agree totally, most NFB feedback is "not' deserved,. I have been buying and selling for over 12 years and have never given a seller a NFB.

 

Personality conflicts or buyers with personal issues play a big part in NFB.

 

I've had some problematic transactions over the years too, but I have never felt it necessary to give a seller a negative feedback.

 

Most issues can be resolved if both parties are willing to work together.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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About FB, Continued from Previous Thread

I've left Negative feedback. When a seller calls me a 'crazy b-word' for questioning an item that arrived with undisclosed damage, you bet I leave negative feedback complaining I've been sworn at.
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About FB, Continued from Previous Thread

And of course there are some exceptions........

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About FB, Continued from Previous Thread

Yes, and what I've been saying is still a little different.

 

FB has morphed into a tool sellers use to vet potential buyers.

 

It was never intended or designed for that purpose.. Just sayin', it would be interesting to take that way and see what's left.

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About FB, Continued from Previous Thread

That's where we disagree.... I use the buyers feedback to check on potentially problematic buyers before I'm willing to do business. 

 

Feedback can be very valuable in that aspect and if sellers can be rated for their service then so can buyers as potential customers.

 

   

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About FB, Continued from Previous Thread


@silverpinups wrote:

That's where we disagree.... I use the buyers feedback to check on potentially problematic buyers before I'm willing to do business. 

 

Feedback can be very valuable in that aspect and if sellers can be rated for their service then so can buyers as potential customers.

 

   


Actually, that's exactly my point.  Since sellers use FB to vet potential buyers, buyers have very good reason not to leave honest FB.

 

 Experienced buyers are well aware that they're being judged according to the FB they've left.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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About FB, Continued from Previous Thread

Well... I think experienced buyers know that some Negative feedback is justifiable so there's really nothing to worry about as long as one always made sure to leave honest feedback as a buyer. When I did all my buying, the Positive feedback left for others always outweighed the Negatives. I was careful to avoid sellers with a great deal of Negative feedback. I think there are some sellers that might look at a buyer's history of leaving all Positives and feel that makes them easy to push around too.
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