Am I Required to Give a Refund In This Scenario?

[bspes-f2ttqxod3m]

Some backstory. I had up for auction a videogame which bidding ended on December 20th. The winning bid was for somebody in New York (I'm in Canada). I offer two shipping options at checkout for US customers: a cheaper untracked lettermail option and a slightly more expensive tracked parcel option. In the item description, I have this:

"BUYERS FROM THE U.S.: Two shipping options are available. The cheaper option does not include a tracking number, so no refunds will be processed if this option is chosen and it gets lost in the mail. Thank you for your understanding."

The item was shipped out on December 23rd (so right before Christmas). eBay gave the estimated delivery as being January 8th. They messaged me the following day to say they hadn't got it. In a polite way, I told them to be patient and wait a bit longer (there's been some bad weather, not to mention it was shipped out during the holidays).

Today they opened up a refund request and I have no idea what to do. I can just barely afford my tuition costs for this term and now I have to worry about a refund too. Does anyone know if my stipulation would hold up or would eBay ignore it and grant the buyer a refund?

While it doesn't have tracking, I do have photographic proof that the item was shipped out, as well as confirmation from Canada Post that the shipping/customs declaration form for the package was created and paid for.

Any help would be really appreciated.

Thanks for taking the time to read!

Spencer

[marnotom!]

eBay's Money Back Guarantee basically states that buyers needn't shell out money for items they don't receive.  

Your buyer isn't complaining that you didn't send out the item, so sending proof that you sent it isn't going to mollify them.  eBay's Money Back Guarantee overrides the conditions in your auction.

Tracking or no tracking, if your buyer claims they haven't received their item and there's no evidence satisfactory to eBay that the buyer has received their item, you need to return your buyer's money.  If your item was insured, you make an insurance claim with the carrier for loss.

Some sellers seem to think that tracking or delivery confirmation are some sort of protection against legitimate claims of non-delivery when in fact it's insurance that does this job.  If a seller sends the item with tracking and the buyer doesn't receive it, the seller would still be on the hook for a refund.

[kawartha-ephemera]

Personally, I would refrain from adding any sort of shipping blurb along those lines. First, such a policy is not enforceable. Second, I would not broadcast the fact that Small Packet is not trackable.

There is one avenue to explore though, you could bring up the item in your "Completed" and "Sold" list and manually enter the Canada Post UR****** number in ebay tracking. Sometimes those numbers are tracked by ebay. Maybe you will get lucky and it will show as being delivered.

Here's a recent discussion on the subject.
https://community.ebay.ca/t5/Seller-Central/HAHAHAHAHA-Caught-the-SCAMMER/m-p/432254

[marnotom!]

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@kawartha-ephemera wrote:

Personally, I would refrain from adding any sort of shipping blurb along those lines. First, such a policy is not enforceable. Second, I would not broadcast the fact that Small Packet is not trackable.

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That's a good point.  I'd also add that blurbs like that often just serve to drive good buyers away.  They'd look at it, see that the seller isn't prepared to take responsibility for a lost item, wonder what other tricks the seller might have up their sleeve, and move onto another listing.

[travis7s]

The short answer is eBay is going to refund them. Unfortunately this is the risk we take when we ship with no tracking. You can try to present your case to eBay, there is a slim chance they may let you keep your money and they will pay for the refund.

The only thing I'm confused about is the customs documentation for lettermail, I was under the impression you don't have to do that for lettermail. If you actually sent it Small Packet you can upload the tracking and possibly win that way.

[bspes-f2ttqxod3m]

My mistake, I wasn't thinking right when I typed that. It was sent by Canada Post Small Packet Air, which does not include tracking.

Is there any way to delay giving a refund by a certain amount of time in case the item arrives? As I said, I assume it'll be late given there was two holidays and the bad weather

[femmefan1946]

Is there any way to delay giving a refund by a certain amount of time in case the item arrives?

Only with the buyer's agreement.

If you refuse to refund when the buyer makes the Claim/demand, even if you are just delaying to allow time for delivery, eBay will refund them, come after you for their money, and slap you with a Defect.

Defects can mean higher FVF, restrictions on the number and /or value of listings, or even closed selling account.

Have you heard the Good News about Cookie Jar Insurance?

Basically this just means setting aside (in a virtual Cookie Jar) a few pennies or dimes from each sale to cover the very occasional loss, whether that is a valid  INR or NAD dispute, a scam dispute, or your own dang fault (like sending the blue sweater instead of the red one that was ordered).  It also covers damage in transit due to poor packaging, which third party insurance is very unlikely to cover.

Most seller who use this find that by the end of the year, Cookie Jar is either revenue neutral or a small profit centre, in part because you are not giving money to someone else for a service you may never need.

[mcrlmn]

Seller is responsible for accurate description and timely delivery.
A seller can offer me 10 methods of shipment, and I will always choose the cheapest.
Tracking protects the seller.
The buyer already has a guarantee of accurate description and timely delivery.

[ypdc_dennis · Accepted solution]

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@bspes-f2ttqxod3m wrote:

My mistake, I wasn't thinking right when I typed that. It was sent by Canada Post Small Packet Air, which does not include tracking.

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If it was Small Packet sent to the USA, enter the number that you appears on the label. While "untracked" and not displayed by Canada Post or USPS, since 2019 it appears that eBay often gets scans that the USPS makes of these Small Packets. Worth a try adding the number manually to the order.

how it looks on ebay (when it works)

[bspes-f2ttqxod3m]

Thanks, I just added it in for the tracking info. Hopefully that does something

[bspes-f2ttqxod3m]

The most I can do is accurate description and timely shipping. I can't control delivery time if they're backed up during the holidays

[teenytrinkets]

Yay! Tell us if it comes up! I looove catching a scammer buyer!!!! 🙂

[luckylegend]

Btw if it doesn’t come up it’s because you need to put courrier as USPS not canada post

[marnotom!]

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@bspes-f2ttqxod3m wrote:

The most I can do is accurate description and timely shipping. I can't control delivery time if they're backed up during the holidays

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The choice of shipping methods offered for the listing is something you control as well, though.

Anyway, keep in mind that it's not necessarily game over if you have to give your buyer a refund before the item arrives.  The good ones will find a way to pay you again if the item arrives after they've received their refund.

[bspes-f2ttqxod3m]

When I entered the info for the tracking, I set the courier as Canada Post, but currently the number shows nothing for both Canada Post and USPS. Should I leave it as CP or change it to USPS?

[luckylegend]

For me it worked 100% of the time and I had it on USPS all the time because they are the ones scanning it. 😉 you can win it

[maximus7001]

"Should I leave it as CP or change it to USPS?"

Yes change it to USPS.

[maximus7001]

Be sure to let us know the outcome of this.

[pjcdn2005]

I would leave it as CP as it is a Canada Post tracking number.   From what I understand, small packet will only show as scanned when it is delivered and it will only show that on eBay, not on the postal websites.  

[pjcdn2005]

I don’t remember anyone else mentioning that they change it usps so I don’t think that it’s necessary but....I don’t know that first hand.