Buyer filed a payment dispute with their payment institution

[morepleaseshop]

I've got a dreaded message from ebay that my buyer filed a payment dispute with their payment institution.

It says it's for INAD, but the only comment buyer left is "I cannot reach the website to resolve this https://www.ebay.com.ca/mye/myebay/purchase it says it is unavailable".

I messaged the buyer asking what's wrong? so I can resolve it, but then looked at the date of purchase and it's been almost 3 months! That's why she can't see her purchase and dispute it on ebay, so she decided to walk around...

I've heard that these disputes are hard to fight and usually the buyer wins anyway. What would be the best cource of action for me?

My only options now are "Accept and agree" or "Challenge and provide supporting documentation", but even if it wasn't beyond ebays deadline I still have no idea what's wrong, so I can't provide any documentation. I think, being an occasional seller herself, she knows it and just counts on the chance her bank and ebay will somehow solve it for her because the buyer is a "sacred cow".

Thanks in advance!

[reallynicestamps]

Start by stating in the Claim "Please return for refund".

Then cross all your fingers and toes, and hope eBay (which is mediating) is on your side.

[flipistics]

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@morepleaseshop wrote:

I've got a dreaded message from ebay that my buyer filed a payment dispute with their payment institution.

It says it's for INAD, but the only comment buyer left is "I cannot reach the website to resolve this https://www.ebay.com.ca/mye/myebay/purchase it says it is unavailable".

I messaged the buyer asking what's wrong? so I can resolve it, but then looked at the date of purchase and it's been almost 3 months! That's why she can't see her purchase and dispute it on ebay, so she decided to walk around...

I've heard that these disputes are hard to fight and usually the buyer wins anyway. What would be the best cource of action for me?

My only options now are "Accept and agree" or "Challenge and provide supporting documentation", but even if it wasn't beyond ebays deadline I still have no idea what's wrong, so I can't provide any documentation. I think, being an occasional seller herself, she knows it and just counts on the chance her bank and ebay will somehow solve it for her because the buyer is a "sacred cow".

Thanks in advance!

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Of course the link says it's unavailable. There is no eBay link with ".com.ca" in the URL.  Tell her to log onto eBay, go to "My eBay" -> "Purchase History".  Whether you fight it or not is up to you.

If you do, make sure you clearly state that the link the buyer is saying they tried to access is not an eBay link and that you tried to direct them to the correct link after seeing the chargeback but never received a response (do that one immediately), they didn't try to contact you to resolve any problem (I assume?), and you were never given an opportunity to send a label to get your merchandise back but would be happy to do so and refund them if given the chance. That's probably your best chance of winning the case.

For what it's worth, I had a buyer open a credit card dispute a few months ago and I won it, so it IS possible. It wasn't for an INAD though.

[recped]

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@reallynicestamps wrote:

Start by stating in the Claim "Please return for refund".

Then cross all your fingers and toes, and hope eBay (which is mediating) is on your side.

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It's a NAD payment dispute, there is no return for refund option on those. Doesn't matter if eBay is mediating (they are not), the bank only cares about the cardholder.

[pjcdn2005]

If your dispute was for item it recognized dispute that can always be won if you have delivery confirmation. 
An INAD is a lot more difficult to fight because it is the bank making the decision.  If the bank rules in favor of the buyer then ebay may refund out of their own pocket rather than the sellers but that's not the norm.  It's possible that showing they didn't make a real effort to contact the seller may make a difference but I really don't know.  And we don't know where they got that link, it could be somewhere on an eBay help page.

@morepleaseshop 

Which item is it?  If it is inexpensive I would probably agree with the dispute.   But you have some expensive items so I'm not sure what I would do.  If you fight, I think that you have to put any evidence that you have in one screenshot though that may have changed.

[flipistics]

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@pjcdn2005 wrote:

If your dispute was for item it recognized dispute that can always be won if you have delivery confirmation. 
An INAD is a lot more difficult to fight because it is the bank making the decision.  If the bank rules in favor of the buyer then ebay may refund out of their own pocket rather than the sellers but that's not the norm.  It's possible that showing they didn't make a real effort to contact the seller may make a difference but I really don't know.  And we don't know where they got that link, it could be somewhere on an eBay help page.

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Even in the case of delivery confirmation, it's still the buyer's bank making the determination and there's a decent chance they side with their client.  However, eBay's seller protection covers us if that happens whether the bank finds in our favour or not.

This one is an interesting case. If it's low cost, the op should probably just accept the chargeback, report and block the buyer, and move on. If it's higher cost and the op is sure they described the item correctly, it might be worth taking a chance and disputing it. Worse case they're out another $20 for the dispute fee. Given what they've posted here, I think there is a decent chance that eBay may cover them. Wrong URL address, no attempt to contact them, and the fact it's been 3 months during which time the buyer could have done anything with it that caused the not as described.  At the very least, they should probably contact eBay and ask if there's a reasonable chance of being covered.

[morepleaseshop]

No, the link is not an issue. It's actually ebay's messaging system that took it away and I'm glad it did, because I only left t there as it was a part of the buyer comment, ment to sow that there is nothing for me to reply to or "counter".

The buyer did get back to me later and said that she doesnt have a problem with my item, that it was a different issue, not with me (I'm guessing something with the transaction or currency conversion, maybe?) But how did that get converted into INAD?!

After that I asked ebay to close the dispute and they said they can't do it, because it was opened by another institution and to ask the buyer to do it. I did, but kept thinking if she has an unresolved issue with the transaction itself, how can I expect her to close the case because I happened to be a collatteral damage? She did, though. I can see that the task is no longer on my "to take care of" list.

I'm very happy that it ended as it did, but I find ebay's reply very disturbing. It clearly wasn't my fault, and they still said they can't or won't protect me. Even if it was a legit INAD, shouldn't they have rejected it at the very least because it was way beyond the deadline for that claim? Are they expecting us to be responsible for anything going wrong with used items we sell for months and months? How many manufacturers are giving such a warranty even for new items?

[morepleaseshop]

The item was one of the cheapest I sold and the disput was a mistake, but that's my worry... What if it wasn't? Maybe ebay would decide in my favor, but there seem to be no clear line on that. They don't stand firm on their own rules. The timeframe for the INAD is 30 days (wich is already way too much for a second hand item in my opinion, but Ok), why isn't anything beyond that is automatically rejected?! Why don't they send those "institutions" a reply with the terms and policies right away without it ever getting to the sellers? Whatever banks promissed to their clients shouldn't be able to overide other companies lawfull rules.

Sorry for the rant, I did have a very frustrating, wasted day...

[flipistics]

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@morepleaseshop wrote:

I'm very happy that it ended as it did, but I find ebay's reply very disturbing. It clearly wasn't my fault, and they still said they can't or won't protect me. Even if it was a legit INAD, shouldn't they have rejected it at the very least because it was way beyond the deadline for that claim? Are they expecting us to be responsible for anything going wrong with used items we sell for months and months? How many manufacturers are giving such a warranty even for new items?

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The dispute wasn't opened in eBay. They have no control over the process either. It was opened with the buyer's credit card provider.  I do agree that the length of time for an INAD in a chargeback is a bit long, but that's not something eBay has control over.  It would be nice if they extended the seller protection for INADs if they occurred more than 60 days after delivery though.

[morepleaseshop]

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@flipistics wrote:

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@morepleaseshop wrote:

I'm very happy that it ended as it did, but I find ebay's reply very disturbing. It clearly wasn't my fault, and they still said they can't or won't protect me. Even if it was a legit INAD, shouldn't they have rejected it at the very least because it was way beyond the deadline for that claim? Are they expecting us to be responsible for anything going wrong with used items we sell for months and months? How many manufacturers are giving such a warranty even for new items?

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The dispute wasn't opened in eBay. They have no control over the process either. It was opened with the buyer's credit card provider. 

I understand that. What I don't understand is how is it binding for ebay. Say, a bank promises their clients an INAD chargeback for 2 years(or 10!) and they open a case by the end of the 2-nd year. I would expect ebay to say, 'well according to our rules it's too late' and send the bank to deal with whatever ridiculous promisses they make as their marketing strategy. Why the bank's decision has to be the law for ebay or any other company? What forces ebay to comply with that? That's very strange and at the very least unfair.

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[pjcdn2005]

I suspect that it is the laws as well as credit card agreements  that forces eBay to abide by the Banks' decision.   In some cases they may have been able to fight harder on the seller's behalf but I doubt that they will commit the resources needed to do that. Plus, Ayden is likely the middlemen in these disputes so I'm nit sure how that works. 

@recped  Do you know if eBay would be dealing with the bank directly or dealing only  with Ayden for credit card disputes?

[recped]

@pjcdn2005 

I don't really know, probably Adyen is somewhere in the mix.

I suspect there isn't much "dealing" going on especially for an NAD claim.

[marnotom!]

My understanding is that eBay is considered the “merchant of record” in a credit card dispute so technically the dispute is against eBay and not the seller.

Keep in mind that if an INR or “unrecognized transaction” dispute is filed against eBay/an eBay seller, eBay will, as per seller protection policy, cover a reversal itself if the dispute is lost but the seller has fulfilled the necessary conditions for protection. INAD disputes are a different ball of wax.

[fergua3]

Ebay really doesn't have a say in the matter.  If the bank, credit card issuer etc decides in the buyer's favour they just take the money back from Ebay, the same way Ebay does (and Paypal used to) from us.    Ebay can't stop them, just as we can't stop them.

It's cases like these that make me glad i am retiring from selling very soon.  I myself just had a big chargeback on a (for me) expensive item.  Given the small number of Ebay sales i make these days, the number of chargebacks and other problems i'm getting is way disproportional.

[byto253]

Some good advice in the thread, on marshalling evidence to make a case to the card company.  Just do not let it wait.  Depending on the value, if the chargeback goes through without the return of goods when the buyer ghosted you with no responses and outside the eBay 30 day terms the buyer agreed to, you can go to small claims court.  That would likely have a good chance as courts are not friendly to big corps flexing arbritary muscle.

[morepleaseshop]

Ebay can do it to us only because we gave them that power, though. We provided them with our payment information and we don't want to be kicked off of ebay, we depend on them and we agreed to that. But they still can't easily reach into our accounts in just any of the banks where we are clients. So, how can every bank and every CC issuer, big and small, have that access to ebay's accounts, to just reach and take?.. As others have mentioned, there must be some legal procedures in place to do that.

The more I learned about chargebacks while dealing with this, the scarier in looks. Apparently they can even chargeback if the buyer just changed their mind! Even ebay doen't do that, they give us a choice to deny a request for return if we have a no return policy. But not these guys.

Anyway, I still had to "challenge" the dispute in the end, because it stayed open and in my orders a day after the buyer closed the case on her end. But ebay's desision in my favor was nearly immediate.

[fergua3]

in the same way we agree to give Ebay (or Paypal) access to our accounts, Ebay agrees to give cc companies, banks etc access to Ebay's account.   Or they can simply deduct the amount 'owed' as a refund from future payments being made to Ebay.

The funding sources have all the power and it's all quite legal, as it's part of the contract agreements.

[intimewithmusic]

@byto253 

  Your small claims court experience may have been better than mine. In my case over a $1200 dispute,  it took a lot of my time to file and attend.  Surprisingly the "culprit" attended.

  The judge awarded me the $1200 without any court fees or interest so no penalties for the theft.  The "culprit" was ordered to pay me $20 per month the first payment due that day. He paid it in front of the judge. That's 60 payments over 5 years no interest for a $1200 theft. That $20 was the last payment he made.

 Recourse? Go back to court and hope he shows up.

  Considering your time spent and toxicity involved consider the possible outcome and how much bashing you can take before filing for a hearing. 

[byto253]

Unfortunately, folks think winning in court means getting paid.  You still have to collect and as you experienced that is not always easy.  In this case, if you win against a company like a credit card company getting paid normally comes through, and often enough they will settle without going through with a hearing.