Buyer fraud

[furtova]

-The buyer purchased item July 18th. Buyer is from Finland using a COMC mailbox (located in British Columbia).
-I mailed item July 19th. (I am in located in Canada, southern Ontario)
-Received a message August 17th from buyer stating item has not been received by COMC. I answered right away, asking to please give it another week or so as mail to BC (ie. where COMC mailbox is located) is sometimes slow.
-Buyer sent a message Aug. 23rd saying it still had not shown up. I told him I would refund immediately, which I did on Aug. 24th.
Then that was it, I figured it was lost. I mentioned that if it did show up I would appreciate him telling me and to pay for the item.

This has happened to me 2 times earlier in the year to BC as well (to regular addresses, not COMC). Items did not show after 5 weeks and I refunded both buyers and then their cards showed up a week later, they were both very honest and payed me back. I would have no idea if they got the items or not, so kudos to them.
Yesterday, Sept. 19th., I was going through my eBay sales and thought I never heard back about this card, and I should call COMC myself to see about this. Sure enough, COMC told me the item was received on Sept. 12th, they have a confirmation number and pictures, and they have my name on file as the sender (apparently, they record the sender's name in place of the tracking info. number). The buyer would have received an email on the 12th letting them know the card was received, but the buyer never contacted me to let me know. I just randomly called COMC to find if they had a 'lost and found' or misplaced card department. I don't even have a COMC account. For those of you not familiar with COMC, it is simply a 3rd party warehouse facility that will photograph and store your sports card collectables, and buy and sell with other members. You can also cross list and sell your current inventory in COMC with eBay. Also, please note, you do not physically have the card, all you get is a picture on your computer screen of the card, it is virtual until you decide to have the card mailed to you.

Last night, I PM'd him to let him know that he received the card and that I would appreciate the payment back.

Today's eBay PM exchange (Sept. 20th)
Buyer:
"Hi, the card has finally arrived but it takes another week to log in to my COMC account. I looked at the PayPal account and there is no way to cancel the refund. Is it ok if I send half of that amount because delivery lasted for a long time? Thanks."
Me:
"I would like the full amount. I have nothing to do with the mail delivery. As far as I am concerned COMC got behind and does not want to admit it. I think they delayed for a month or so on their end. Item was sent regular mail, if you wanted express mail it would have been about $12-$14. lmk your thoughts. thanks."
Buyer:
"Hi, there is no button where the payment can be returned. I can pay half of the amount. How do I know that you've sent the card on July 19th? Thanks."

Today, I contacted PayPal and spoke with them for about 15 minutes, they told me to contact eBay and file a Payment not received claim.
I called eBay, waited 40 minutes for them to call me back. They said they cannot do anything on their end, it is a PayPal issue and that I should send a regular invoice to the buyer (which I have now done).
So, I called PayPal back again just now and they said they cannot dispute or open a case for this type of issue. And it was an unusual issue and she had never heard of this happening before. They said it is sounds like fraud (without seeing the proof) and then we discussed local police and international mail fraud involvement. Spent a good part of 2 hours on this so far.
Buyer still only wants to pay half, as you can see in the above PM.
Anyone else, ever encounter this issue and get it resolved? Should I be penalized for a mail delay like this?
I have proof the buyer received the item and they admit to receiving the item. I know it took 7 weeks, but is that enough for a discount? The buyer has me over a barrel.
1. Should I just accept half the amount and forget about it?
2. Do I have a case (legally), should I file a police report for mail fraud and go after the full amount?

3. Or should I try and get half now, and then file a police report for the other half? My worry is that if i take half the amount now, the police/authorities will look at it as a case in which I settled and it is resloved, which is not what i want.
Any help at all would be appreciated.

[hlmacdon]

The issue you have here is you voluntarily refunded the money which leaves neither ebay nor paypal with any recourse to reverse that process. File a police report, and send a copy of that information along with messages from the buyer to the forwarding company and explain they may want to ban the customer as they are clearly engaging in fraudulent behavior that may leader to other retailers refusing to ship to the forwarding company. Use the report buyer feature on ebay so the buyer has a mark against his account (he'll need dozens and dozens, but hey you might as well). I'd consider the money gone at this point based on their behavior. People can be jerks.

[femmefan1946]

I'm assuming you sent the item without tracking?

That the forwarder has a record is very professional of them, but makes no difference to eBay or Paypal.

You refunded on August 24.

I mentioned that if it did show up I would appreciate(the buyer)  telling me and to pay for the item.

Always a Good Idea and often works.

COMC told me the item was received on Sept. 12th,

So when you refunded the buyer had not received the item, nor had the forwarder.

The card was actually received by the buyer on Sept. 20.

Don't get belligerent with the customer.

You are a little grumpy in your response to his request for a refund.

Remember, the forwarder had not received the card as of August 24 when you refunded (as himacadon says- voluntarily).

Send the customer a Paypal invoice for the card. You may or may not decide to discount the shipping.

You shipped by Canada Post (?) without tracking. This is usually just fine, I do the same for most of my items. But you have to accept that when we do that, we will lose Item Not Received Disputes. Every. Single. Time.

The money we save on generally unneeded tracking, is like an insurance premium for the occasional loss or delay in transit.

Personally, I'd include a perky little note like "Glad to hear the card finally turned up. Between Canada Post and COMC, we were both left feeling unhappy and blaming each other.  Thank you for your consideration."

• I'm assuming since it was not worth using a tracked service, that the item was relatively low value.   If so, what you lost was the procurement cost and the original shipping cost when you refunded in August  (before COMC received the item). Not what the buyer paid for the card. Only your markup from your actual costs.
• I don't see any fault with COMC here. They did not receive the item until well after you refunded and seem to have shipped promptly.

[furtova]

Hi, thank you for the response. I would like a like more clarification on your first sentence. I was told (someone who is big seller) that I have no choice in the refund department. I have to voluntarily refund a buyer who files a claim, because if I do not do it then eBay will wait the alloted time (ie. 5 days or whatever it is) and then the buyer will automatically get their many back anyways. I was told there is no debating this they get the money back everytime either from me or from eBay. And additionally, which is the big draw back, I will get a note on my file that I did not make the refund and deal with the issue. If this is not true please let me know.

Also, I tried using the report buyer feature. It was actually the first thing I attempted. It does not work. I found the item and went through all the windows twice. Both times it just said that it that action could not be performed. The only thing I can assume is that it is over the 60 day time period so is not allowed.

[femmefan1946]

@furtova

I was told...that I have no choice in the refund department. I have to voluntarily refund a buyer who files a claim, because if I do not do it then eBay will wait the alloted time ...and then the buyer will automatically get their many back anyways.

Yes.

EBay will refund the unhappy buyer from their own pocket.

And then they come after you (and you have financial information on file, if only to pay your monthly fees) for their money.

More important, you get a Defect for not refunding.

And it is not a change of policy, just a change in how eBay was publicizing its policy.

EBay recently started calling this policy its Money Back Guarantee and telling buyers about the protections they have when buying here.

The only difference is that a Buyer who is clearly asking for a Remorse ** Return is  required to pay for tracked return shipping at the seller's request . The seller can accept other proofs ( the buyer's word, photos of damaged goods or parcel) but Proof of Delivery is the gold standard.

A buyer who, truthfully or not, asks for a refund for Not As Described, has the return shipping paid by the seller.

The idea being that in a Not As Described, the responsiblity for the problem lies with the seller either sending the wrong product or packaging it poorly, or choosing a shipper* who does not deliver promptly or securely.

*The shipper is your sub-contractor. He is responsible to you the seller. You are responsible to the customer.

Shipping is hard.

** The pants were described as fitting a 36" hip and are too tight for my 48" butt.

[femmefan1946]

Without tracking that is electronically visible, neither eBay nor Paypal will back the seller in a Not Received dispute.

Even if the buyer left positive feedback.

Even if the buyer is now selling the item on his own account.

Proof of Delivery.

Most domestic Canada Post parcel services include Proof of Delivery.

Registered service is available (but more expensive than most parcels) and the proof of delivery is only good in Canada. EBay does not accept Registered mail as being Proof of Delivery.