Buyer gets refund while tracking proves it's still in transit.... I'm so disappointed

Provided valid tracking from Canada Ontario to PA USA buyer 

Buyer received refund via eBay 2 days after filing.

Shipped Dec 18, buyer refunded on January 15... 

Item still in transit......

 

I have appealed with photos of the receipt with the tracking number and buyers postal code with the date block stating the 18th on it...

Still have heard nothing from eBay even after speaking to them.

 

Anyone else ever had this happen?

Message 1 of 43
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Buyer gets refund while tracking proves it's still in transit.... I'm so disappointed

Proof of shipping is not proof of delivery that tracking provides. Buyer waited until they got tired of waiting and filed an Item Not Received claim which is their right. You should have refunded on your own and not let eBay do it because you probably got a defect. One defect is not a problem.

We all know shipping times are very long because of COVID but not an excuse.

You should send a message politely asking for repayment if it ever arrives. When you see delivery politely remind the buyer again. If the buyer refuses or never replies then you are out the sale.

If your item loss is low value try appealing to PayPal after tracking shows delivery and the buyer refuses to repay. I remember when I was selling a lot of low value items under $5 with free shipping and no tracking and I missed the message from eBay from the buyer saying Item Not Received PayPal automatically refunded me the sale. This was around the time years back that PayPal implemented Seller Protection. Maybe Seller Protect still exists but you have to ask them.
Message 2 of 43
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Buyer gets refund while tracking proves it's still in transit.... I'm so disappointed

The item in question was 43 usd with tracked shipping taken from the cost of the sale.
If tracked packages aren't protecting sellers than I guess I'm done.
I have all the information required to prove I did everything to the T. Yet because the buyer is simply tired of waiting does not constitute a refund.
Message 3 of 43
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Buyer gets refund while tracking proves it's still in transit.... I'm so disappointed

I checked the PayPal site and the seller protection does not protect as I described above. It protects against fraud fraud. No mention of courtesy refunds. It would be an unwritten policy I assume is it exists.

At the time that I got a small refund PayPal said the reason for the courtesy refund was because I was such a good PayPal customer with no claims for seven or eight years. And they said seller protection had just been implemented and maybe they were doing it as an advertising tactic to let sellers know.
Message 4 of 43
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Buyer gets refund while tracking proves it's still in transit.... I'm so disappointed

Just so we're clear tracking information your saying doesn't matter cause it doesn't prove delivery?

Message 5 of 43
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Buyer gets refund while tracking proves it's still in transit.... I'm so disappointed

Put yourself in the buyers place. Paid and no item. I would want my money back.

Relax. Calm down. Wait to see if tracking shows delivered. If it does send a polite message asking for repayment.

No reason to stop selling on eBay. You are an experienced seller and eBay is so hard to learn and put up with the changes every year or twice a year. Don’t throw it away.

I stopped selling on my other ID 3-4 years ago because I sold low cost items under $5 with Free Shipping to Canada and the USA when I could ship to USA for $2-3 using Light Packet. The shipping cost for Light Packet increased year after year until it was close to $5 and I gave up. Mistake. I should have taken a break and changed to a $10 price or more. I had the items. But I was tired of selling.
My health got bad and that was the end of selling for me since.
Message 6 of 43
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Buyer gets refund while tracking proves it's still in transit.... I'm so disappointed

Yes. Tracking without delivery is useless. Proof of delivery is your protection.
Message 7 of 43
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Buyer gets refund while tracking proves it's still in transit.... I'm so disappointed

This Experience has changed my opinion of eBay and Its policy surrounding seller protection. A tracked package still in transit means it's coming to you and eBay should not refund a buyer before the package arrives to the destination especially when proof has been requested and supplied.

 

I have half a mind to repost every desirable item I have with the item description outlining the conduct and behaviour of eBay on this matter.

I think I almost have a duty to let the greater seller community that eBay does not side with sellers even with proof /valid tracking that shows the item moving to it's destination.

 

 

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Buyer gets refund while tracking proves it's still in transit.... I'm so disappointed

I can't tell what all happened during the course of this but when a case is opened, it is very important to make sure the "action" is on the buyer.

If there was a tracking number it should have been entered into the case, (for some reason it does not happen automatically). That puts the action back on the buyer, and I believe it prevents the BOTS from automagically refunding as appears to be the case that happened in your situation.

No response within the case I believe will cause the automagic refund when the due date arrives irregardless of whether there is progress or not.

The buyer can still escalate after the "due date", but if you have attached the tracking number within the case, it shows eBay that you were keeping the buyer updated and it should help the result toward you assuming it is eventually delivered.

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Buyer gets refund while tracking proves it's still in transit.... I'm so disappointed

I strongly suggest you do not do this:

 

"I have half a mind to repost every desirable item I have with the item description outlining the conduct and behaviour of eBay on this matter.

I think I almost have a duty to let the greater seller community that eBay does not side with sellers even with proof /valid tracking that shows the item moving to it's destination."

 

If I'm a buyer I don't care what protection ebay provides to you the seller, I only care what it provides to me as a buyer and I'd avoid any sellers with this kind of wording in their descriptions....

Message 10 of 43
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Buyer gets refund while tracking proves it's still in transit.... I'm so disappointed

Initially when the INR was received I provided the tracking number to eBay and him . The tracking number has always been available to the seller as i manually type in every tracking number myself immediately after shipping.
Two days later case closed and buyer refunded, then I appeal and call, told to send photos supporting claim. Photos sent to buyer so eBay can review .....
It should never ever have gotten as far as it did....

I've waited 3 months for items and never received refunds because the item was showing in transit......
Message 11 of 43
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Buyer gets refund while tracking proves it's still in transit.... I'm so disappointed

eBay eh.. done

Message 12 of 43
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Buyer gets refund while tracking proves it's still in transit.... I'm so disappointed

The hard part for us all, is not to forget the other 99.5% of successful transactions.

 

Generally we remember the very most frustrating and costly losses (even though for most of us they are very rare) and we also like to take them personally even though we shouldn't.

 

Even in my "safe" stamp world, I've had buyers claim no receipt then I later see them selling the stamps they never received. It is very frustrating and VERY hard to forget, but the rare problem buyers have always been out there, they were probably even worse in the B&M world.

 

Depending on one's category one has to also factor in the "loss rate" in their margins, losses are simply another part of the cost of selling (online or otherwise).

 

How one reacts with the buyer before, during and after the case has been opened can help a lot to reduce the losses as in the % that do repay, however that also depends a lot on the selling category.

 

These boards, as very helpful that they are, also help taint our view of ebay, the shipping companies and buyers because it is only the problems that ever show up here. Every day we see lost packages, broken shipments, buyer frauds, ebay glitches and it tends to make our brains think that ALL buyers are criminals, the PO can't deliver anything or if they do it is broken, ebay never works right etc. This is of course not the case, but we never see or hear much about the overwhelming majority of successful transactions. 

(Just to be absolutely clear I think these boards are awesome.)

 

As others mentioned above, don't give up on this just yet, once it actually does arrive there is the chance that the buyer will repay and/or talking with eBay may also provide a resolution.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Message 13 of 43
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Buyer gets refund while tracking proves it's still in transit.... I'm so disappointed

jcd931
Community Member

Lengthy post in reply:  I feel your pain on this one.  The exact same thing happened to me yesterday.  Item  ($103.00 with shipping)  sent from Saskatchewan on December 7.  Tracking # provided to buyer. Item processed in Edmonton on December 29.

 

Received message from Ebay:

 

Jan. 3 :
The buyer didn't receive the item
Buyer wants the item
Comments
Hello, I just wanted to touch base with you on the item and do a one month “follow up “. I realize this is out of your hands now and the tracking shows the package is in Edmonton. I’m in no hurry for this and have no problem waiting for it, just staying in touch. Regards.
 
I sent a note back to buyer, with thanks for their patience, noting that it was finally processed in Edmonton and that it shouldn't be long before it would be in their mailbox.
 
Jan. 7 : Reminder from Ebay that I hadn't sent the buyer tracking details, which I proceeded to do.
 
From Ebay:  You added tracking details
Comments (from me to buyer)
Good morning. Hope all is well with you. Although you have the tracking number for the item, this # is in response to a follow up request we received from Ebay, asking us to provide you with a tracking number on the item. It looks like no change since we last corresponded, but there probably won t be any further tracking information until it arrives at and is processed at its next destination.  Once again we thank you for your patience and understanding. 
 
January 7 - From Canada Post website, item processed in Richmond BC
 
January 13 - From Canada Post website,  International item being forwarded to destination country, Richmond, BC
 
January 14 - From Canada Post website, Item has arrived in foreign country, Ussfoa, USA
 
Jan. 14 :
The buyer has opened a case
Comments
Hello, This item has still not arrived. I can only conclude that it is lost in transit at this point.
 
From Ebay -- Here's what happened
Jan. 14 :
The case was resolved. Buyer refunded.
 
These last two emails came into my mail box, one right after the other.
 
I thought that since I was working with the buyer, and believed they were in no hurry and had no problem waiting for it, as indicated in their comments, that I would not receive a defect  and a refund wouldn't be issued automatically; obviously wrong on my part which I discovered as I was reading the other comments.  I guess I'll wait until the item is delivered and send a nice note to the buyer asking for payment.  Live and learn.....next time, I'll correspond with the buyer, but if it looks like things are stalled for some length of time, I'll refund so I don't get a defect.
 
 
 
 
 
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Buyer gets refund while tracking proves it's still in transit.... I'm so disappointed


@705-jvs-den wrote:

This Experience has changed my opinion of eBay and Its policy surrounding seller protection. A tracked package still in transit means it's coming to you and eBay should not refund a buyer before the package arrives to the destination especially when proof has been requested and supplied.


Wait, what?  Why and how would the seller give a refund for an undamaged, accurately described item that's reached its destination?  

 

I appreciate that this development is upsetting for you, but you're not the only seller that's misunderstood what protections are available to them.

 

Tracking actually isn't really what eBay or PayPal want in the event of a buyer claim.  Most of the time, it doesn't matter where the item has been last scanned while in transit.  What they want is proof that the buyer's claim of non-delivery is bogus.  In other words, they want proof of delivery.  (In the case of an unauthorized payment claim, proof that the item was shipped to the provided address will suffice, but that's often not obtainable.)

 

If your item doesn't get delivered and your buyer gets refunded, the seller files an insurance claim or dips into their virtual cookie jar that was filled with small amounts from their handling charge to cover circumstances like this.  That's how losses get covered.  Or else they're considered the cost of doing business, just like a brick and mortar retailer factors in a certain amount of "shrinkage" into their business plan.

 

If the tracking information for your item on the USPS website states that the item is still "in transit" but delayed (or actual words to that effect), you may have grounds for an appeal.  If the scans don't have this wording, there's no differentiating it from an item that's disappeared in transit.

 

Remember, your buyer's complaint is that they didn't receive the item, not that you didn't send it.

 

As has been said so well earlier, you've had loads of sales that have gone by the book (probably more or less) for you.  This setback will sting a bit, but if you're doing reasonably well with eBay, it's not going to cripple it by any stretch of the imagination.  Not every sale is going to work out and make money.  It's how business works.

Message 15 of 43
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Buyer gets refund while tracking proves it's still in transit.... I'm so disappointed

After a lengthy conversation with eBay the appeal was resent as the agent AGREED the case had merit as the package is still moving slowly.

 

Btw The buyer never contacted me once to ask anything just jumped on the refund button.

 

Agent also said if the case remains in buyers favour wait till it's delivered then resend a new appeal.

 

I'm not letting this one go....

Message 16 of 43
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Buyer gets refund while tracking proves it's still in transit.... I'm so disappointed

It's good that you're still fighting for this. Keep going. I think, if anything, once it's delivered, PayPal would be obligated to reverse the refund.

If it's lost, you have a claim with CP/USPS and can get your money back.

Selling these days can be a real dogs breakfast. You have to go into it KNOWING you'll get screwed over about 5% of the time. Most buyers are super honest and patient. A small portion are not. That small portion is growing, as they're being spoiled with Amazon's next day delivery and free returns. Ebay has to compete with that.

I honestly only worry about our future as sellers because of managed payments. At least now we can have PayPal override an unfair Ebay decision. With MP we'll have to smile and take it up the tailpipe. But again, only about 5% of the time. 🙂
Message 17 of 43
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Buyer gets refund while tracking proves it's still in transit.... I'm so disappointed

Manage payments is something I'm just taking a look at now.
Sounds like something wonderful..'eyes roll'

eBay was in error when they applied a refund it's just taking some time for them to realize it.... luckily I can keep reminding them.
Message 18 of 43
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Buyer gets refund while tracking proves it's still in transit.... I'm so disappointed

@ricarmic keeps a close eye on his losses and returns.

He has his annual report up on the Seller's Board today with comparisons to other years.

It's an interesting read and a comforting one.

Message 19 of 43
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Buyer gets refund while tracking proves it's still in transit.... I'm so disappointed

The biggest problem is eBay is not keeping track of actual shipping times, according to the postal carriers.. Their delivery standards are still the same, but Canada post has removed all guarantee's..  And refunds for late delivery's .. So as sellers we are paying for a service and not getting it..  eBay need s to update the dates of expected delivery to reflect the real world,, During the pandemic, no one should be able to file for an item not received while it is still in transit..

 

or at least say 3 weeks with no update that would be reasonable.. then file.. but i am sure everyone of us seller's could pick a point were something went awal for 2 weeks, then magically reappeared..

 

I have an item that was received in Quebec on the 5th of January, no update since then..

So ebay has to be in touch better with the postal services, to say, O.k. there is heavy lag time in Quebec, we better add more days to this order..

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