Buyer wants to return a watch

[what-does-your-watch-say]

I sold a watch on ebay and the buyer after 5 weeks decided he didn't like how the dial looked and wanted a partial refund. 

I refused since I had already lost a lot of money on the watch so he filed a claim stating the watch wasn't as described.

We went back and forth with messages until I finally asked ebay to step in and make a decision.

Ebay decided the watch wasn't as described and said I have until January 4 2018 to arrange a refund or they will issue a refund even if the buyer hasn't returned the watch,.

I contacted ebay this morning and was told that there is a hold on the return and that if I contact them on January 4 that I can file an appeal.  Yet the email I received said ebay will issue a refund on January 4.

I posted 21 pictures of the watch including 6 pictures of the dial and the buyer claims he couldn't tell there was a stain on the dial.  He has made it clear that he wanted to sell the watch and because he can't he wants his money back from me.

I don't know how to proceed.  Will ebay issue the refund on January 4 or will I actually have a chance to call them and file an appeal.  I've never been in this situation before and I don't know what to do.

[momcqueen]

Did you take notes and names when you spoke on the phone?

If the Customer Service Reps told you to do something contrary to the automatic directions issued under case auto-management, chances are they meant it. But if it were me, I'd call again to double-check it and confirm the areas which are causing you concern.

It seems pretty clear from the back-and-forth messages that ebay can see this is not a true Item Not as Described case. The Customer Service Reps (CSRs) are wise to these now; I had one in the fall which was opened as such when it was really a case of buyer's remorse as was clear from the messages and the CSR I spoke to about it gave me contradictory information/directions to the auto-messages sent and received when a case is opened so I followed the verbal advice from the CSR and the case was closed in my favour. I don't recall the nitty gritty of all the details of the verbal instructions to quote them per se but there are enough similarities between your case and mine that I should think you'd be wise to follow the advice given to you by the CSR.

But double-check it first. 

And block this buyer form future transactions with you. It sounds as if they are not dealing with good intentions.

[momcqueen]

If I may ask, which watch was this? The BENRUS Selfwinding 17 Jewel DO 13 Tropicalized Dial Original Kreisler Band?

[momcqueen]

I'm asking because you go well out of your way to provide ample photographic evidence of your items for sale. 

[what-does-your-watch-say]

Thank you for your comments mjwl2006mommcqueen I appreciate your advice on this.

The watch in question is item number 152784090098, the Cyma wristwatch. I can post a direct link to the listing if you need me to.

I will call ebay again to confirm that I can file an appeal on Jan 4, thank you for that advice. I didn't get the name of the person i spoke with though.

I showed ebay the emails from the buyer where he states that the dial lowers the value of the watch and he wasn't able to resell it, yet they didn't care.

The service rep said that I could call on January 4 and ask for an appeal, so perhaps you are correct in that ebay sees this as not a genuine INAD case.

The buyer's entire argument was that I didn't say in the description that the dial had a stain and that I didn't post a picture showing the stain, but I felt with 6 pics of the dial alone that would have been enough for any bidders to make a decision.

I also ask bidders to ask all questions before the end of the auction because I respond to all messages and the buyer stated he wans't sure about the dial but never bothered to message me.

[momcqueen]

Both as a buyer and seller, I think your buyer in this case is full of hot air. 

Is this the bone of contention? The minuscule darkening on the knob-thing? It's visible. You mention the item is in need of a cleaning, I should think this is clear warning, but perhaps more experienced vintage buyers and sellers would disagree. When I sold used diecast cars, I would literally count and describe every paint chip but that was overkill by any stretch of the imagination. 

It seems clear to me it's a clear case of buyer's remorse. Which is fine within two weeks but you're not obligated to accept anything after that time period expires unless you have 30-day returns, or longer. Without revealing identifying details on who your buyer is, what can you tell us about them? Did they have it listed for sale on ebay? Are they new to ebay? A high feedback count? Low? What about their Feedback Left For Others? 

Call back to ebay Customer Service to clarify and confirm, yes. A vast majority of these cases are settled by software so you have to call and speak to a real, live person if there are any mitigating circumstances to a case. The bots don't care. 

[what-does-your-watch-say]

It's actually the dial that the buyer has the issue with. He says the dial stains detract from the value of the watch and that I didn't mention them in the listing.

[femmefan1946]

Wouldn't it cause less aggravation to your ulcer to send a Return Shipping Label? Through Shippo if he is in the USA.

The partial refund is off the table.

What you want is not to lose any (much) more money.

If it's good enough to keep, it's good enough to pay for.

Get it back. Block him. And relist.

Or is your concern that you would not get your watch back?

[what-does-your-watch-say]

When the buyer asked for the partial refund he wanted me to refund half the price of the watch plus the shipping cost. To me that was far too much considering what I had already lost on the watch.

Now ebay says that I have to send him a PayPal payment to cover the return shipping then when I receive the watch back I have to refund the entire amount of the watch plus the shipping he paid when he bought it. To me that is just not right.

[esclyons]

yes if ebay goes ahead with the item not as described case , you will be on the hook for both shipping fees, and a full refund.  on the other hand it is that, or a full refund and no watch..

[what-does-your-watch-say]

So can I call on Thursday to file an appeal or will they automatically issue a refund?

[what-does-your-watch-say]

I called ebay again and was told that I can call on Jan 4 to file an appeal.

[pjcdn2005]

Honestly it doesn’t sound to me as if customer service is giving you any different advice than they usually do as it is always possible to appeal a case.  It is however more common for the seller to lose than to win an appeal.  I admit that I am basing this only on situations that I’ve read about on the discussion boards.  I’m not certain but they may refund and then you appeal after that.  If that happens the only way to win is is Ebay gave you a courtesy refund.  They are not able to take the payment back again from the buyer once he has been refunded.  

I don’t know how much it will weigh in your favour if there is proof that the buyer tried to sell the watch and wants to return it now just because it won’t sell.  But if they considered that a big factor than why did they rule in the buyers favour when you asked them to step in. 

The buyer is saying that the face of the watch has a stain?  I think that I can see a stain there but to be honest, I just thought it was the lighting. If there is one there the pics don’t make it super obvious. It’s great that you show so many pictures but it is also important to describe any problems as well. What is obvious to you with the item in hand may not be as obvious to someone looking at your item online.

[femmefan1946]

You will lose money in any case.

You just have to decide how much you want to lose.

•  The partial refund the scammer buyer is demanding.
• The cost of return shipping and refunding the payment
• Which would be offset when you resell the watch.
• The watch and the entire original payment.

Your choice.

[what-does-your-watch-say]

I thought 6 pictures of the dial would be clear to anyone looking at the listing. In all the years I've been selling on ebay this is the first time anyone has claimed one of my watches was not as described. It all comes down this this buyer not being able to resell the watch and deciding he wants his money back.

[what-does-your-watch-say]

The ebay agent I spoke with said to contact the buyer and offer a partial refund. I have but I'm waiting for him to respond. What angers me about this is that he waited weeks to ask for a refund and freely admitted he can't resell the watch. That ebay doesn't care about that is another level of absurdity in all this.

[femmefan1946]

It's not unusual for eBay sellers to buy on eBay for resale.

There are even sellers who specifically sell lots designed for resellers.

Multiple copies of a single item or mixed lots of similar things.

For example, a mixed lot of 100 brand name girl's clothing Size 2, or 100 paperback all mystery or thriller. Or 500 pairs of tube socks New with Tags.

From your feedback, you buy parts for watches here. Pot, kettle.

Personally, my preference would be to demand the return and then relist, with a revised description.

You won't make money on every sale. You should be making enough money that the occasional loss is just a business

[what-does-your-watch-say]

Yes I do buy parts on ebay--for my own watches, or for my watchmaker who needs them to service my watches.

I don't care if someone resells my watches, but if you buy from someone and can't sell it for the price you want then you shouldn't expect the seller to take the item back.

[momcqueen]

Unfortunately, there is a segment of ebay sellers that do exactly that with items fresh from retail. Buy the Hottest thing from a Big Box, list it for sale on ebay, and if it remains Unsolds in 60 days (or less), they return it as per the return policy of the brick-and-mortar store from which they bought it. (Not me, I might add.)