Canada post is killing business

[rocketscollectibles]

Its getting out of control out there shipping with mail. Ive seen so many people on different platforms and social medias having the same issue past 2-months. Its getting totally out of control. There is a tendency from quebec located people.

I got returned over 20-30 orders now past few weeks. I talked about it previously but i suspect its a single employee, and maybe in a main transit spot, messing up the whole province. This is concerning. Its like someone is spotting specific packages and look to cause trouble on purpose by being over-severe.

On top of letterpost bubbles getting now instantly rejected (and returned damaged bent on purpose), they now reject $0.92 domestic bubble mailers for being oversized, just because its bubble mailers. I do have the canada post tool and the packages are valid. Ive shipped single trading card this way in bubbles for over 2 years... Last week they rejected a white envelope for being 2g too heavy (what a joke), while in rules they must accept 5g difference. I also got totally legit white envelopes 1mm 10g getting returned too on regular basis (employee probably think postage is $1.07). And many more.

I forget many situations. But i have a return for a new reason every week now. There is an employee making fun of returning packages for everything and anything. Its getting totally out of control. I truly would like to understand what the heck is going on.

Ive lost past weeks probably $100 in postage, damaged items, damaged supply, canncelled orders. I face negative feedbacks and late deliveries non-stop. Canada post also clearly losing money returning those packages, while most of them are 100% legit.

Is there a way to do a complaint or something?

Anyone else facing this situation as intense as i do?

[marnotom!]

https://www.canadapost-postescanada.ca/ombudsman/

[lotzofuniquegoodies]

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@rocketscollectibles wrote:
Its getting out of control out there shipping with mail. Ive seen so many people on different platforms and social medias having the same issue past 2-months. Its getting totally out of control. There is a tendency from quebec located people.

I got returned over 20-30 orders now past few weeks. I talked about it previously but i suspect its a single employee, and maybe in a main transit spot, messing up the whole province. This is concerning. Its like someone is spotting specific packages and look to cause trouble on purpose by being over-severe.

On top of letterpost bubbles getting now instantly rejected (and returned damaged bent on purpose), they now reject $0.92 domestic bubble mailers for being oversized, just because its bubble mailers. I do have the canada post tool and the packages are valid. Ive shipped single trading card this way in bubbles for over 2 years... Last week they rejected a white envelope for being 2g too heavy (what a joke), while in rules they must accept 5g difference. I also got totally legit white envelopes 1mm 10g getting returned too on regular basis (employee probably think postage is $1.07). And many more.

I forget many situations. But i have a return for a new reason every week now. There is an employee making fun of returning packages for everything and anything. Its getting totally out of control. I truly would like to understand what the heck is going on.

Ive lost past weeks probably $100 in postage, damaged items, damaged supply, canncelled orders. I face negative feedbacks and late deliveries non-stop. Canada post also clearly losing money returning those packages, while most of them are 100% legit.

Is there a way to do a complaint or something?

Anyone else facing this situation as intense as i do?

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@rocketscollectibles 

I think what might be slipping through the cracks is your definition of letter mail vsbubble mailers with Canadapost. Have you tried sending your bubble mailers using 1.30 stamp? See highlighted below. Personally, for me if it's even almost close I regularly use 1.94 (vs 1.30) for my bubble mailers. Saves something being delayed.  When I measure any of my stock of bubble mailers they average between 40 and 60 mm empty. I have had bubble mailers with printed matter that have been snug sliding in the community mail boxes mail slopt. To risk damage I just take to a larger red mail box. I've even been able to locate the cb mailing envelops and using instead if it's something I don't want to risk being damaged in transit

Canada

-Lotz

[lotzofuniquegoodies]

@rocketscollectibles 

Have you taken any of your recently returned packages to your local depot and asked why they are being returned? That way you will know what or if you misinterpreting the rules. On any of those returned envelops did it suggest how much postage they were short?

-Lotz

[byto253]

My understanding is that standard mail for the 92 cent rate has to be 0.18 mm or less.  I think that pretty well excludes bubble mailers does it not?   For those ones, I don't think it would be an employee but the sorting machines spitting them out.   

Don't know about the oversize returns, something is not clicking there if domestic is coming back. 

[38e_avenue]

Doesn't not EVERY bubble mailer AUTOMATICALLY qualify as oversized (+5 mm)? 

[fh991586]

Yeah, I've never seen a padded enveloppe fitting the 5mm slot, even the paper pulp ones...

The OP could bring a couple of samplers at the PO's front desk to make sure they are ok as is, and then monitor if those exact shipments come back. With before/after pictures, the case for complaint escalation would be a lot beefier.

Also, there were many long debates here that 92c of stamps was supposed to be ok for regular mail shipping under 30gr, when you don't have P stamps. I stated no, and was corrected by many using the official post master's guidelines (the ones you can't see unless you work at Canada Post), but it's always risky for such a small penny-shaving economy... Just pay the 15c more, for your own sake! Or use a stamp meter (which might cost you more in the long run).

[ricarmic]

I have the same plastic guide as they have in the post office (advantage of living in a rural post office they "got me one" years ago). I can get the ebay branded bubbles through but even empty they need some "tugging" to get them through. My own experience over the last 45 years is everything from "even if they have to stand on the plastic thing to tug them through they're ok" to "it can't tug at all". Different PMs/staff have different interpretations as to what's ok. I don't know what the sorting machines accept, I believe they must have some extra tolerance as in the "even if they have to stand on the plastic thing to tug them through they're ok" days I didn't have any come back.

Yes the 92c vs $1.07 saga is never ending. Whilst I use older stamps on my packages, (often a combination of older and modern but that's because I'm selling to stamp collectors), I've never put 92c worth of smaller stamps on the "92c" lettermail letters because of the $1.07 saga. There's no sense in risking both time and cost ($$ and ratings) to have them coming back because someone doesn't understand 92c worth of stamps is ok. Its really a moot point in my case because again since I'm sending to stamp collectors I'm putting the recent "P" stamps on the letters anyway. Even if that weren't the case, I'd be using "P" only stamps as a risk averse approach to mailing the 30g stuff for the reasons I mentioned above.

[recped]

The issue is that you are attempting to ship "goods" via LetterMail/LetterPost to the USA. Goods are NOT allowed. The people are telling you it's because they are not paper are incorrect, what the "goods" are made of is irrelevant.

This rule was first instituted about 15 years ago, it is part of an International policy change by the UPU (Universal Postal Union). The goal is to completely seperate actual letters which do not require customs processing from all other mail which can require customs processing.

Enforcement has been very spotty and seems to go in waves, right now there are quite a few reports that enforcement in Quebec (Montreal) has been ramped up since January 2023. If you continue to attempt to bypass the no goods rule you will find more and more of your LetterPost shipment returned to you.

Nobody likes this but it IS the policy and is becoming the worldwide standard.

As far as your domestic shipments, it's NEVER be possible to send ANY type of bubble mailer via standard Lettermail as they exceeed the maximum thickness for Lettermail which is 5mm, they can be sent using O/S Lettermail which has a thickness limit of 20mm, the lowest cost for these $1.94 (up to 100 grams).

I'm not sure what basis you have for complaining as it's clear you are not following the published rules.

[mrdutch1001]

Totally agree!

Any seller who continues to play roulette with the Canada Post rules, policies, guidelines should not be complaining that their packages are being rejected/returned...Canada Post is following their own rules, policies, guidelines and are doing their job and Good on them!

Unfortunately, there will always be those sellers who will continue to defy/ignore the Canada Post rules, policies and guidelines,but sooner or later it will indeed result in "killing business" and perhaps eventually those sellers will get it right and drop this idea that they can "cheat" the system. The only thing out of control here is the number of sellers who think they can/should be able to disguise, find workarounds to avoid shipping their goods/merchandise in the correct manner.

[reallynicestamps]

I bought this on eBay Canada a couple of years ago and it has been some of the best money I have ever spent.

[rocketscollectibles]

Guys. I shipped over 1000 bubble mailers domestic $0.92 and this is the first time returning. I won't even bother myself going into this debate. Or the non-sense $1.07 one. Everytime i go to the office with those, they are approved back and the employees are confused of why it was returned. $0.92 is the rate. And bubble mailers are accepted. 

 

[flipistics]

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@rocketscollectibles wrote:

Guys. I shipped over 1000 bubble mailers domestic $0.92 and this is the first time returning. I won't even bother myself going into this debate. Or the non-sense $1.07 one. Everytime i go to the office with those, they are approved back and the employees are confused of why it was returned. $0.92 is the rate. And bubble mailers are accepted. 

 

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Use postal indicia. Once it's accepted at the post office, there's no price or any indication of whether it's going regular or oversized lettermail.

[msau4301]

You've gotten advice from many people here already so it would seem only you can decide what to do if this has been happening so much to you later. If it's better to pay a little extra money, in the case of Canadian orders anyways about a dollar from .92 you've been using to the $1.94 oversize cost and maybe avoid all the lost/returned/damaged packages you said you've been getting. Even if you tried a couple as an experiment, if none of them came back you would know that's the issue. Most buyers wouldn't be upset about a $1 increase I would hope. I won't address the US shipments of course, that's totally different as you are aware.

Like others have mentioned, I too have the measuring guide (official from Canada Post directly) and agree with lotz said, when there is any doubt I go up to be safe.

[dinomitesales]

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@byto253 wrote:

My understanding is that standard mail for the 92 cent rate has to be 0.18 mm or less.  I think that pretty well excludes bubble mailers does it not?   For those ones, I don't think it would be an employee but the sorting machines spitting them out.   

Don't know about the oversize returns, something is not clicking there if domestic is coming back. 

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Maximum thickness for Standard Lettermail is 5 mm. Maybe you're thinking of 0.18 inches, which is close to 5 mm?

I also have #000 bubble mailers that can easily pass through the Standard Lettermail slot with a card or two in them so are fine to go with single permanent stamp. I haven't had any returned, but I also don't sell the volume of cards that rocket does.

It definitely seems like this is an issue specific to his area. Once a piece of mail leaves the first point of processing it can't be returned to sender for insufficient postage and must be delivered as addressed. My suggestion is to compile all the information you've collected, including photos of items that are incorrectly being returned to you, and file a complaint with the ombudsman. Something needs to be done about this.

[rocketscollectibles]

If it's better to pay a little extra money, in the case of Canadian orders anyways about a dollar from .92 you've been using to the $1.94 oversize cost and maybe avoid all the lost/returned/damaged packages you said you've been getting.

We should not have to pay more than what it cost to have our packages getting delivered. We should not have to assume mistakes and/or misunderstandings of some employees by overpaying.  Applying $1.94 instead of $0.92 may work for casual selling, but any serious seller will throw thousands dollars on long term by doing that. Those packages are legit. It's canada post responsibility to fix their issues and honor their shipments. 

[msau4301]

Yes, I saw dinomite sales response just above yours here and I think they work for Canada Post so by all means they would have a good knowledge on the subject, so do what you think is right, especially if you have a large volume of these small size mailers going out.

I had not heard of ombudsman before but I saw link marnotom had posted earlier on here and now from dinomite so that is good to know.

[ilikehockeyjerseys]

Assume you're operating within the guidelines, it sucks that you're having so many issues. I have shipped thousands of oversized lettermail packages over the last few years. I get a few returns a year for false reasons because sorters are human and make mistakes. 

If these are single cards, maybe look into using something like Hobby Armour sleeves and paper envelopes. I am unsure of their weight and thickness, but they might qualify for standard lettermail. 

[ilikehockeyjerseys]

This is good advice, but there are two downsides.

1 - Some high-volume sellers buy discount postage. This can save anywhere from 10-40 percent.

2 - Some sellers deposit their mail in a local box. For a high-volume seller who will drop off lettermail daily, their post office might be farther than their closest box. They may have to wait in line at the post office. Overall, this could add up to dozens of hours of wasted time over a year.

[mrdutch1001]

since OP claims " Last week they rejected a white envelope for being 2g too heavy (what a joke), while in rules they must accept 5g difference"..well, just where is that written in CP rules regarding lettermail?...fact is Canada Post CAN and DOES reject envelopes based on over the weight limit. I have had  envelopes rejected for being 1 g over the weight...Canada Post says rules are rules and that includes staying within the weight limit..

even the basic CP guidelines state: "Each Lettermail™ item must meet our size and weight specifications."