eBay

gemaddict · ‎10-21-2015

I checked my sellers dashboard as I have been having an unusual amount of problems in the last few weeks. I was quite surprised to find a defect for cancelling an order because I was out of stock. The trouble is I never cancelled anything. This person received their item. I received a negative on it and didn't even bother to ask for a revision as I checked this person's FB left for sellers and out of the 25 FB they left, 8 were negative and 2 neutral. Not a very easy person to please apparently. I was not contacted at all by the buyer. I guarantee satisfaction 100% and will gladly replace or refund no questions. I went ahead and refunded them even though they didn't ask and then promptly blocked them. Who needs buyers like that?

So imagine my surprise when I find this very item, purchased by this same buyer, listed as negative received(which I knew about) and that I had cancelled the order as I didn't have it in stock. I guess eBay hasn't finished inflicting pain quite yet. I do plan on phoning CS yet again but in all honesty I'm beginning to wonder if it is all worth it. Has anyone heard of a mistaken cancelled item defect? Sheesh

reallynicestamps · ‎10-21-2015

Well I hope that guy is on your Blocked Bidders List.

And I'm gonna take a look at your feedback in case he needs any more Best Buddies.

momcqueen · ‎10-21-2015

Someone else here recently said they received a defect for cancelling a bid because the buyer was from a country they didn't ship to. It was in the answer they left to someone's Answer Centre question. I am thinking this is part of a bigger problem: ebay bots are mistaking things for other things.

Here's what I suspect. Because you issued a refund without subsequently cancelling the order and without communication from the buyer, ebay thinks you're trying to skirt the actual out-of-stock issue. This is what I had happen once and it made no sense to me whatsoever. A local buyer sent me a message saying they wanted to buy something of mine but pick it up instead of pay shipping. No biggie, I do this all the time. All my listings sates Cash on Pickup as a payment option.

I tell them (paraphrased) 'Sure! But don't pay for your order via paypal or I have to ship it to you.' Minutes later, they buy their item and, following the ebay auto-prompts, pay for it via paypal. I say, 'Hey, I gotta refund your paypal payment if you want to pick this up, cash man. Remember?' They're like, 'Okay, sorry. I know you told me this but I was worried ebay was telling me something else at checkout after I bought it.' I refund their paypal payment minutes later, they come the next day, pay cash, leave feedback for each other, hugs kisses (I'm kidding about that part) everything is groovy.

Two days later, I see a big fat defect on my account. I flip because I know I am not defecting anywhere and call ebay Customer Service who tells me it was this order and I was gifted an auto-defect because I refunded a payment in full without cancelling the order. I say, that's ridiculous and that the order didn't need to be cancelled because it was legitimately fulfilled but the deal was Cash on Pickup and the buyer made a mistake when he paid for it via paypal which he acknowledged. 'Check the ebay Messages.' CSR tells me that's just how it's done. I tell them I didn't cancel the order after refunding payment because it legitimately took place on ebay and I'm not skirting my selling fees to ebay and that this auto-defect is ripe for abuse by sellers who are trying to sell stuff and then claim off-site transactions. The payment was refunded because the deal was the Cash on Pickup and the transaction took place in person with cash, period. Despite that the buyer made an initial mistake by paying paypal because the checkout prompt stream told them to do so.

Long story short, the defect was removed. However, it took a lot of explaining and I had communication with the buyer that indicated it was an error on their part that they paid via paypal even after asking to pick up and pay cash.

You have to call ebay about this. Good luck.

pinetreecottage · ‎10-21-2015

I'm the one who got the defect for cancelling a BID, not a completed transaction. It was cancelled within minutes, with the reason, I don't ship to her location (Thailand). Ebay says, it was because I ran out of stock. NOT. I have given up fighting. It just makes me mad, and gets me nowhere. It's like talking to the proverbial wall.

momcqueen · ‎10-21-2015

Thank you pinetree, I knew it was you but didn't think I could say so. I think both of you should raise this at Board Hour. Bids are not transactions as far as I know and a refund doesn't equal defect. You can't get two defects for the same transaction. If you got a defect, it was from the negative but if the buyer leaves negatives all the time, he's just wrecking other member scores.

momcqueen · ‎10-21-2015

My apologies: the latter half of the last posting was meant for gemadd. (I'm on a mobile device and find the board difficult to navigate.)

rose-dee · ‎10-21-2015

My best guess would be that eBay programmers are busy, busy, busy in the background mucking about with the whole defect system in preparation for removing most defects in several weeks' time, and that all that monkeying around has made some parts of the seller "punishment" system unworkable.

Keep in mind that one of only two defects in future will be for "out of stock", so it may be they are already trying to set up the digital architecture for that purpose, with the result that it may be getting accidentally applied in the wrong places (i.e. until the old defect system is removed completely in early 2016).

Just wait until we get closer to the end of January -- it will probably be near-chaos around here. Essentially eBay is re-constructing their entire policy where defects are concerned. That sounds like a full blown programming nightmare.

As much as it may seem like an acute pain the you-know-what, I'd pester CS to get this removed. Come February, every defect will have a much higher impact on seller status because they'll be lowering the allowable threshold. So we sellers will want to get rid of any lingering unfair defects while we can.

rose-dee · ‎10-21-2015

@mjwl2006 wrote:
Bids are not transactions as far as I know and a refund doesn't equal defect. You can't get two defects for the same transaction. If you got a defect, it was from the negative but if the buyer leaves negatives all the time, he's just wrecking other member scores.

I believe a full refund still does generate a defect (under the current system), unless a cancellation is also done afterward, but you're right that only one defect can be generated for the same transaction.

The thing that worries me is that the system was telling the OP the defect was for "not in stock", which was clearly not the case. As I said, I think we're going to see more and more defect mix-ups in the background programming on this site until they get the entire new structure in place and the old one removed.

Frankly I can't even imagine how eBay is going to turn that switch off from one day to the next on -- what it is -- February 19/20? Fasten your seat belts everybody.

momcqueen · ‎10-21-2015

If the same team of CSRs are going to be handling the calls, eBay may as well close the doors. The last people I spoke with about defects and feedback were so (self-edited) I decided to quit selling here in the new year. If they're the best eBay has to offer, I don't want that stink associated with me. Sorry but that's the harsh truth.

momcqueen · ‎10-21-2015

Oh, rosedee, I understand what you mean now: you're saying all current defects are being converted to out-of-stock defects whether by accident or on purpose. Did eBay ever say the current not-stock-related defects wouldn't count anymore and that the slate would be wiped clean? Or did we merely assume that. Perhaps it's a go-forward proposition only and the rest are carried into it as defects, period.

rose-dee · ‎10-21-2015

@mjwl2006 wrote:
Oh, rosedee, I understand what you mean now: you're saying all current defects are being converted to out-of-stock defects whether by accident or on purpose. Did eBay ever say the current not-stock-related defects wouldn't count anymore and that the slate would be wiped clean? Or did we merely assume that. Perhaps it's a go-forward proposition only and the rest are carried into it as defects, period.

You know what, that's a very good question to ask Raphael. I think I'll post it. I assumed that the slate would not be wiped clean come February 20th, i.e. that we'd all carry forward any previously awarded (LOL) defects, regardless of their type. Hoping for an amnesty would be just too generous to be believed of eBay though, in my view.

The only other defect (besides a seller-cancelled transaction for out-of-stock -- actually for any other reason that the order can't be filled) that will apply in the new system will be cases closed without seller resolution. So, really, all those old defects for other reasons, such as negative FB, etc. should in all fairness be removed. Well, that would be my choice.

I'll definitely pose this question if Raphael is going to be around today.

gemaddict · ‎10-21-2015

@rose-dee wrote:
I believe a full refund still does generate a defect (under the current system), unless a cancellation is also done afterward, but you're right that only one defect can be generated for the same transaction.

The thing that worries me is that the system was telling the OP the defect was for "not in stock", which was clearly not the case. As I said, I think we're going to see more and more defect mix-ups in the background programming on this site until they get the entire new structure in place and the old one removed.

Frankly I can't even imagine how eBay is going to turn that switch off from one day to the next on -- what it is -- February 19/20? Fasten your seat belts everybody.

I am not so sure giving a full refund gives a defect as it wasn't so long ago that I gave one and have seen nothing. Given all the things that have been going on with my eBay selling experience lately I'm very surprised I didn't. I probably shouldn't have said that. I'm getting scared to go into my dashboard as it is.

femmefan1946 · ‎10-21-2015

Keep in mind that one of only two defects in future will be for "out of stock",

Huh.

Wonder if eBay has decided it doesn't want dropshippers any more, since unknowingly selling items that the supplier no longer has is one of the many drawbacks of that system.

momcqueen · ‎10-21-2015

.... But they were just asking in that survey whether sellers wanted to use eBay-approved dropshippers.

Something is up with this. It can't be a coincidence that sellers are suddenly seeing this happen. For every two people that report a problem on eBay Canada boards, there are probably 50 who do on eBaydotcom. From what I've seen but that is anecdotal evidence only.

momcqueen · ‎10-21-2015

I was in the middle of typing a clarification for R at Board Hour when he closed the topic for the week.

I still don't know what he means when he says, "yes".

http://community.ebay.ca/t5/Weekly-Board-Hour-Session/October-21st-2015-Weekly-Session/td-p/316458

Does "yes" mean to say that any existing defect will be considered an out-of-stock defect under the new system? For example: if a seller currently has six negatives (with six associated defects for Items Not as Described for example) these will be rolled into six defects but considered out-of-stock or Not Resolved? Will the defects be wiped clean? And how can a seller get an out-of-stock defect for cancelling a bid before an auction closes because the buyer was from a country they didn't ship to?

Thank you for raising it rosedee. I'll do my best to follow-up with it next week.

rose-dee · ‎10-21-2015

Yeah, his answer was a bit of a head-scratcher, wasn't it? He didn't exactly answer the question directly. I'll reproduce my question and Raphael's reply here for everybody's reference:

rose-dee wrote:
1. When the new defect policy comes into effect on February 20th, will sellers' pre-existing defects be removed, i.e. will we all start with a clean slate under the new system as Day 1 of our new evaluation cycle?

"Yes. On February 20th, everyone's seller status will be adjusted to the appropriate Standards level according to the new defect rules. This means the "old" defects will be replaced with the "new" ones."

Does this mean that only those old defects which would generate a defect in the "new" system will still hang on, i.e. anything to do with out-of-stock problems (seller-cancelled transactions), and cases closed against the seller? Or does he mean that the old defect rules will be replaced with the new ones, but that the defects themselves will be wiped off the slate?

Yikes, could he have been more obscure with his answer? Yes, we need to follow up on this. This is very important to a lot of smaller sellers.

Unfortunately I couldn't get back to my computer before R. closed down the session, so it will have to wait until next week. (I was out planting my garlic today on a sunny October afternoon -- a much more serene and happy task than grinding my gears over eBay policy. )

rose-dee · ‎10-21-2015

@femmefan1946 wrote:
Keep in mind that one of only two defects in future will be for "out of stock",

Huh.
Wonder if eBay has decided it doesn't want dropshippers any more, since unknowingly selling items that the supplier no longer has is one of the many drawbacks of that system.

Yes, I wondered about this too, but I'm working on the assumption that big sellers using drop shippers will have some sort of "special arrangement" in place with eBay over these defects.

In any event, if you have more than -- what is it? -- 400 transactions per month, you get to roll all the nasty history over every 3 months anyway.

pjcdn2005 · ‎10-21-2015

Does "yes" mean to say that any existing defect will be considered an out-of-stock defect under the new system?

No. It means that the only defects that you currently have that will count are the ones that count in the new system. So any current seller cancelled transactions and unresolved case defects will still count as defects but inr, snad, negative and neutral defects that you have in the old system will disappear when the new system starts.

For 'late' shipping time, it's my understanding that they have been keeping track of that since August which was when they started asking the question on feedback so starting in February, the shipping time metric will include any late shipments from August on. We'll be able to see those numbers sometime in November.

pjcdn2005 · ‎10-21-2015

And how can a seller get an out-of-stock defect for cancelling a bid before an auction closes because the buyer was from a country they didn't ship to?

You can't get a defect for cancelling a bid before an auction closes even if you cancelled it because you didn't like the buyers eye color.

rose-dee · ‎10-21-2015

@pjcdn2005 wrote:
Does "yes" mean to say that any existing defect will be considered an out-of-stock defect under the new system?

No. It means that the only defects that you currently have that will count are the ones that count in the new system. So any current seller cancelled transactions and unresolved case defects will still count as defects but inr, snad, negative and neutral defects that you have in the old system will disappear when the new system starts.

This is what I initially thought Raphael was saying in his answer (see post above), and what I would have expected to be the case, but now I'm not so sure. His reply was really not very clear at all.

Are you getting this information from another source (perhaps an eBay staffer on the .com side?). Maybe they are explaining it more plainly.

In any event, I intend to try and clarify this next Wed.