Defect rating system and last session on the boards Ralph wrote something made my eye twitch

[brandeentertainment]

First my customer will suffer because i am now going to be way more focused on pleasing ebay then my customers ..

This happens to me 2-3 times a week and sometimes within days of shipping because they just want to ask a question and open a case instead and the answer below was from Ralph which normally I very much respect and a appreciate his help but in this case his answer show me lack of interest to help canadian buyers or lack of understanding how badly this needs to be corrected in order for sellers like me to stay a float ...

Thanks for your feedback on the relationship between opening cases and asking questions.

On this topic I should point out that yes, open cases do put a defect on the transaction but that if the case is escalated and eBay decides in your favour, the defect goes away.

99.8% of all my movies do not have tracking in other words 99.8% of the time I would not have ebay decide in my favor ( Most cases get closed by the buyer when they receive it but this answer is by no means even close to a resolution ...

YOU NEED TO PUT IN BIG BOLD LETTER IN BUYERS OPTION RIGHT AT THE TOP ... MESSAGE SELLER .. Problem solved so is ebay not willing to change this very small thing to help us ...

[recped]

I have the same three different boilerplate messages, each gives a delivery window (and I make long enough that at least 90% of the time it arrives just about the first day or two and sometimes before). I also mention that if there is any issue to "please reply to this message". I solve my own problems I don't need eBay's help!

I don't get many questions but if I was getting a lot of simple over and over then the small effort to set up the FAQ that eBay provides would be well worth it.

On the tracking question, I rarely get asked and even then it's usually only when a shipment is actually overdue, my standard reply is "I'm sorry there is no tracking, unfortunately from Canada shipping with tracking is very expensive" Those questions of course also get the full blow here's 10 reasons why it's late but will show up very soon stuff as well. I only suggested it because it sounded like this was a very frequent question that the OP gets.

[froogal_electronic_parts_and_overstock]

lots of good advice, but I think it's missing the point and that is that.....

Sellers are being penalized when a buyer is simply trying to ask a question.

Buyers are guided via the ebay system to open a claim, rather than send an email.

Even when a buyer closes a case by themselves, this is still counted as a defect by to the seller. 

To me, this is set up to further push sellers to sell locally, and/or with tracking. Yup, I'm a conspiracy nut, but it seems to me, you either tack on an extra $5-10 for your item for tracking, or risk losing TRS status, discounts and sales. In the meantime, the larger sellers with presence in many countries can sell for cheaper and are affected much less by these changes. 

It's not up to sellers to try and figure out how to circumvent or prevent ebay's system from causing clearly incorrect defects. Furthermore, the solutions provided are only stop gap solutions as ebay before changed the DSR to encourage no communication. By sending this email a seller is breaking that encouragement. How long before ebay tweaks that to punish sellers who go outside of their rules by communicating. Sounds silly, but then again, who would think you get 5 stars for not communicating with a buyer. 

Ebay should change the measurements. If a buyer closes a case by themselves, then there should be no defect. 

[cumos55]

eBay should change the measurements. If a buyer closes a case by themselves, then there should be no defect. 

If a buyer opens a case... by accident....  gets an answer from a seller...  and then the buyer closes that case.

What did the seller do wrong???

Defining this activity as a defect... is a defect in the Defect System.

[cumos55]

Sellers who have been here for years have made adjustments as the years passed.....

and many times  they have developed a way of selling  that minimizes the possibilities of defects  in this new system of seller evaluation.

It is the sellers who have started selling over the last few years  that have a real challenge...

The objective is to establish a procedure for selling that provides the answers before the questions are asked....  

How we communicate with buyers .....in the listing... in the FAQ....

That information must be absolutely clear......  no grey areas....  No questions to be asked......

[faircrochet]

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@froogal_electronic_parts_and_overstock wrote:

Buyers are guided via the ebay system to open a claim, rather than send an email.

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It's not even that they are being guided to open a claim instead of just send a message.  Everytime they click on "my item wasn't as described" or "I haven't received my item" as a reason to contact the seller, a claim is opened without their knowledge.

I'm sure there are far fewer NAD questions, but any innocent question a buyer wants to ask before the arrival of their item, they click on "contact seller", see the "i haven't received my item" and say to themselves "well, that applies, let's click it" and they ask their question.  They have no idea they just opened a case which counts against the seller.

It's very underhanded of ebay to open a case in your name, but totally without your knowledge.  As a buyer I would be pretty steamed about it, and from the emails they send sellers they are steamed.  They just need to let ebay know what they feel, so ebay can know what they are doing to the "buyer experience".  Not a very good business practice to make people fee bad every time they ask a question.

[recped]

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@froogal_electronic_parts_and_overstock wrote:

lots of good advice, but I think it's missing the point and that is that.....

Sellers are being penalized when a buyer is simply trying to ask a question.

Buyers are guided via the ebay system to open a claim, rather than send an email.

Even when a buyer closes a case by themselves, this is still counted as a defect by to the seller. 

To me, this is set up to further push sellers to sell locally, and/or with tracking. Yup, I'm a conspiracy nut, but it seems to me, you either tack on an extra $5-10 for your item for tracking, or risk losing TRS status, discounts and sales. In the meantime, the larger sellers with presence in many countries can sell for cheaper and are affected much less by these changes. 

It's not up to sellers to try and figure out how to circumvent or prevent ebay's system from causing clearly incorrect defects. Furthermore, the solutions provided are only stop gap solutions as ebay before changed the DSR to encourage no communication. By sending this email a seller is breaking that encouragement. How long before ebay tweaks that to punish sellers who go outside of their rules by communicating. Sounds silly, but then again, who would think you get 5 stars for not communicating with a buyer. 

Ebay should change the measurements. If a buyer closes a case by themselves, then there should be no defect. 

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Can you give me an example of a buyer that "simply asks a question" that results in a defect?

There are only two that I know of "where is my item" or "my item is broken or wrong", threre is nothing you can do about the later except make sure you send the right thing, describe is accurately and pack it well.

On the former that's what cumos and I have been saying, communicate and inform your buyers in advance and then they don't need to ask questions. The fact that a buyer has to ask at all is a problem. I can fully understand eBay's position on that.

The use of tracking or not has nothing to do with anything, tracking is not some magic bullet in fact it's usually  a complete waste of money if you have to pay for it or upgrade a service to get it.

In my opinion it IS up to sellers to do what is necessary so buyers can simply buy, wait for the date they have been told their package will arrive and be happy with what they receive.

I do these things and have done so long before eBay had to put the screws to sellers to make them act in a professional manner.

I totally agree that a buyer who simply asks about a shipment which then shows up the next day should not cause a seller to receive a defect. Maybe eBay will change that but in the meantime I just continue to do what has always been needed with or without a defect system.

[mr.elmwood]

Well, i am not getting cases opened. I am getting message to seller. I get them for: where's my widget, where's my tracking number, part does not work, I bought the wrong part.

Over the last several months I am probably running a ratio of 10:1 of eBay message vs cases opened.

I have "no tracking numbers" in my listings. That way, when they ask, I can reference back to that statement. I have never knowingly been bitten by that.

The quality level of my customer is quite high. No matter who is wrong, I am getting a whole lot of civility. For me, when something does go very bad, it is a tad more troubling as it is so off the charts.

My defect rate is trending down

[froogal_electronic_parts_and_overstock]

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@recped wrote:

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@froogal_electronic_parts_and_overstock wrote:

lots of good advice, but I think it's missing the point and that is that.....

Sellers are being penalized when a buyer is simply trying to ask a question.

Buyers are guided via the ebay system to open a claim, rather than send an email.

Even when a buyer closes a case by themselves, this is still counted as a defect by to the seller. 

To me, this is set up to further push sellers to sell locally, and/or with tracking. Yup, I'm a conspiracy nut, but it seems to me, you either tack on an extra $5-10 for your item for tracking, or risk losing TRS status, discounts and sales. In the meantime, the larger sellers with presence in many countries can sell for cheaper and are affected much less by these changes. 

It's not up to sellers to try and figure out how to circumvent or prevent ebay's system from causing clearly incorrect defects. Furthermore, the solutions provided are only stop gap solutions as ebay before changed the DSR to encourage no communication. By sending this email a seller is breaking that encouragement. How long before ebay tweaks that to punish sellers who go outside of their rules by communicating. Sounds silly, but then again, who would think you get 5 stars for not communicating with a buyer. 

Ebay should change the measurements. If a buyer closes a case by themselves, then there should be no defect. 

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Can you give me an example of a buyer that "simply asks a question" that results in a defect?

I never said. that. Re read it again. I said  Sellers are being penalized when a buyer is simply trying to ask a question. Big difference. It's not the fact they are asking a question, but that when they TRY to ask one, ebay's system can guide them towards opening an INR case when all they were doing were asking a question.

There are only two that I know of "where is my item" or "my item is broken or wrong", threre is nothing you can do about the later except make sure you send the right thing, describe is accurately and pack it well.

On the former that's what cumos and I have been saying, communicate and inform your buyers in advance and then they don't need to ask questions. The fact that a buyer has to ask at all is a problem. I can fully understand eBay's position on that. 

The use of tracking or not has nothing to do with anything

I am not sure how you can say buyers want to know where an item is and then in the next sentence saying 'tracking or not has nothing to do with anything'. You do realize that the reason why they have tracking is so that a person can .......track where there item is. If you don't send your item with tracking, then when a buyer clicks on the sale, they don't see anything. No number, no link, no tracking, only a 'shipped' notice. So if they want to know where there item is, then they might contact the seller thinking that they haven't shipped the item, or there is a problem because.........there is no tracking. 

This is exacerbated by the fact that shipments in the US have tracking for a fraction of the cost and US buyers are used to tracking, and when an item doesn't have tracking they think there is a problem....so they contact a seller. 

I had a buyer open an item not received claim because they had no idea who CPC was and thought it was being delivered by USPS. 

, tracking is not some magic bullet in fact it's usually  a complete waste of money if you have to pay for it or upgrade a service to get it.

 That's just a straw man you are putting up here. Nobody said magic bullet, and your complete waste of money is just nonsense. If tracking had no purpose, they wouldn't have it and wouldn't charge for it. If tracking was useless, ebay and  paypal wouldn't use it as a measurement and factor when deciding cases. If tracking wasn't important, ebay wouldn't be implementing these new rules that encourage tracking.

In my opinion it IS up to sellers to do what is necessary so buyers can simply buy, wait for the date they have been told their package will arrive and be happy with what they receive.

I do these things and have done so long before eBay had to put the screws to sellers to make them act in a professional manner.

You're being condescending with the 'professional manner' when in fact, ebay has shipping templates where the information can and is put in, and it still doesn't help. You're idea of sending a separate email goes against ebay's idea of best practices where they want to minimize that contact with buyers, and the point still stands that by sending a separate message to the buyer, you forego your  automatic 5 star communication.

Again, nobody said it isn't up to the seller to do things, but that it is up to ebay to not penalize sellers when they follow the best practices. I like to discuss things with people but it's annoying when they put up straw men or draw conclusions about something that wasn't even said. 

It sounds great you just send an email and voila, but all you need to do is look at the thousands of people upset about GSP, or INR, or SNAD and see how many of them are due to the buyer NOT READING. I honestly can't believe that sending an email will really solve the problem. I suspect most of your buyers are either of a typical type, maybe more mature, or not in a rush, or whatever, but there are many who just ignore emails and when they feel the item should arrive (2-4 days based on their experience) start asking questions, not perusing their email. 

I totally agree that a buyer who simply asks about a shipment which then shows up the next day should not cause a seller to receive a defect. Maybe eBay will change that but in the meantime I just continue to do what has always been needed with or without a defect system.

[rose-dee]

There are some interesting points in this discussion and I'd like to add some comments:

1)  I think brande has a quadruple problem -- his extremely busy schedule, fairly high volume, technical/software compatibility issues, and a younger, impatient demographic -- that many of us don't have to deal with.  I'd guess that hisbuyers rarely read anything carefully, even if he had the time to send each one a personal email.  I suspect a lot of his customers are in a big hurry, they see what they want (picture), grab it, then think about questions afterward and hit the "Ask Seller a Question" button because it's the easiest thing to do.  Of the options offered in the FAQ section, "I haven't received my item" might seem a logical choice for a lot of them, whether their question has anything to do with delivery time or not.

2)  Following from this, I think we shouldn't assume that what might prevent problems for some sellers will work just as well for brande.  For example,I know that my buyers can and will read my emails, I imagine people who buy books, collectibles, or vintage items will read emails and descriptions.  For those customers, a direct post-sale email may be effective. 

3)  Accordingly, I agree completely with the posters (including brande) who feel that eBay shouldn't be penalizing sellers as a result of its buyer-seller communication facilities.  They may be great for big, high-volume commercial sellers who don't want to pay people to interact with their customers directly and who can afford to absorb defects, but they're poison for smaller sellers.

4)  Essentially I've felt obliged, like cumos, to work outside the eBay system by sending a personal email to each customer immediately after a sale in order to avoid accidental case problems.  I don't believe I should have to do so in order to circumvent eBay's system that routes buyers inadvertently into opening a case, but for me it's practical and effective.  I expect it would be a lot less effective with brande's buyers and would probably waste a lot of his time. 

5)  I did want to mention that the "Communications" DSR no longer impacts seller status, nor can it generate a defect.  Consequently the 5-star rating for "not communicating" (which I've always thought was a farce) is no longer relevant to seller performance.  So if your buyers do read, and it's worth being proactive to avoid inadvertent INR cases, you no longer have to fear communications DSRs. 

Still, we shouldn't have to work outside the eBay communications system in order to avoid unintentional INR cases -- eBay's internal system should permit a buyer to ask a simple question post-sale without assuming there is a problem.  I've had buyers apologize to me for unwittingly opening a case when all they wanted was some follow-up information.  And those questions aren't always something to do with delivery -- one who wanted to ask if I would be listing similar items soon, used the "I haven't received my item" option, and a case was opened.  That would be a defect today).

6)  It's just my opinion, but I wouldn't suggest placing a link in listings to the "Ask Seller a Question" page -- that page itself is the problem.   As one poster said, some buyers will just figure that "I haven't received my item" is a broad, relevant topic for many of their post-sale questions, and voilà -- a case results.

7)  INR cases opened inadvertently or prematurely by buyers will now count as defects even if the buyer closes the case (i.e. if the item arrives).  They aren't "resolved" in the seller's favour.  The only resolution that counts is proven delivery (tracking).  So now we're back to tracking again.  I doubt anybody can sell DVD movies, ship them with tracking and make a reasonable profit.  I don't see that as any solution for brande.

😎  IMHO, EBay's policies have been so layered on top of each other over the past 2 or 3 years in an attempt to accommodate large commercial sellers, that the whole policy construct is now a complex mess.  The result is that one rule or best practice often generates a defect in another. 

The subject at hand is a good example: in attempting to streamline things for the biggest sellers by discouraging direct customer interaction (through the automated FAQ/Ask Seller a Question page), eBay has created a situation where innocent, everyday questions become defect-bombs, which can't be "resolved" through good business practice (e.g. promptly answering questions to the customer's satisfaction).  There is a term for this: Catch-22, a classic d---d if you do, d---d if you don't situation.

9)  I am no longer of the opinion that eBay is favouring the largest sellers through its communication policies -- I actually now know this is the case.  A comment was made by Rodney in a recent Wed. discussion that was probably not meant to slip out, but confirmed that eBay has deliberately been discouraging direct customer-seller contact in order to make selling less "hands-on" for the big guys. 

10)  The other big issue related to defects is that it appears many of them will be counted automatically but must be "reviewed" in order to be removed.  By whom and exactly how hasn't been made clear.

11)  EBay may get as much (or more) backlash from these recent seller performance changes as they did from the GSP issue, but I am pessimistic that anything significant will be changed.  EBay will weed out a lot of smaller sellers this way, and that may be precisely what they want. 

The only suggestion I can offer brande is to consider creating his own boilerplate "FAQ" section that is specifically relevant to his products and his usual sort of customer questions and put that at the bottom of every listing, with a bold reference to it somewhere near the top of the description section (for example: "Please see FAQ section below before purchasing".  I know brande mentions a 30-day delivery time in his listings, but it might help to add information that specifically targets U.S. buyers (such as reminding them that their DVD is coming from Canada, will have to go through customs, etc.). 

[froogal_electronic_parts_and_overstock]

Just to add to the whole non importance nothing to do with anything tracking.... have you seen the email links with tracking in them? Seems to me ebay is pushing ahead full steam on tracking. 

[cumos55]

Sometimes one has to look at feedback to get an appreciation of how much is sold each year  and in turn how the buyers respond through feedback.

Brande is selling high intensity in a category where selling is a difficult option...

Our OP is finding a way to answer the questions before they are asked...  

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My communication with buyers was developed over many years....  Small changes  gave big rewards.

Shipping to the US... a mention of a possible delay in customs gives a good hint that the purchase is coming from outside the US....Canada.

Shipping internationally... shipping time....Once delivered to a postal outlet, the postal services are responsible for delivery of the parcel... shipping time is their responsibility

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Those FAQ

For me something such as

Xbox 360 and newer plays DVDs

Becomes... DVDs can be viewed using a Microsoft Xbox 360 system.... Newer xbox systems manufactured after the 360 can also be used.

PS3 and Newer Will play Blu ray and DVD 

Becomes ... DVDs and Blurays can be viewed using Playstation systems whether PS3 or PS4....

(Are there other PS editions such as PS5 and PS6)

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OP's buyers and potential buyers need quick and easy to read answers... 

Leave lines between the sentences...A Mass of sentences can be difficult to read, and then read the information... Out Loud...

As the days pass  those FAQ will need some measure of adjustment....small changes  will gather BIG rewards.

And there will most likely be some days when putting the store on vacation will provide a much needed break..

[cumos55]

Tracking works....  as it should.

However, it is not an absolute.

Many sellers ship without tracking,  and continue to sell very effectively on eBay.

In business there is no absolute...

The many parts of a business are put together to achieve success... profit.

[pjcdn2005]

I don't think that we should assume that a buyer who purchases vintage items or collectibles is more likely than a movie buyer to read a message sent after a sale. Also, I think that if a buyer is not going to read an ebay message sent specifically to them after the sale than it may be even more unlikely that they read suggested FAQ's. I do think that a seller has to try something before actually deciding it won't work. As mentioned the OP does have a high volume and a busy schedule but if sending a message out after each sale prevents time wasting claims and where is my item messages then it may well be worth the effort.

It is crazy that a seller be penalized if a buyer opens a case by mistake or if they open a case just a few days after an item has been mailed and hopefully that will be changed by August. But long before the defect system was thought of, I have been sending out post shipping messages as a way being proactive and solving problems before they occur. I will continue to do that regardless of what happens with the defect system because it works for me.

[rose-dee]

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@pjcdn2005 wrote:

I don't think that we should assume that a buyer who purchases vintage items or collectibles is more likely than a movie buyer to read a message sent after a sale.

I didn't want to say it so bluntly earlier, but what I was thinking was: older vs. younger buyers, and collectors vs. buyers of new "techno-stuff".  From what I've seen so often on the boards, the latter (in each case) seem to be the source of far more issues than the former.

Also, I think that if a buyer is not going to read an ebay message sent specifically to them after the sale than it may be even more unlikely that they read suggested FAQ's.

You may be right, but it seems to me that the OP might be able to lessen his post-sale load of questions by capturing at least some of those queries up front.  In addition, it would give him somewhere to point to in his responses to common, repetitive questions, rather than having to compose a customized reply to each.  For example - "Hello, thanks very much for your question.  Please take a look at the FAQ section of the item listing for details on this."  If the buyer was using the "contact seller" link through the listing, he'd have clickable access directly to the listing. 

At any rate, it was just a suggestion.

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[bb_cool_stuff]

Pin that I refunded on a couple of weeks back, probably with a Defect Attached, was returned to me today with the Label stating "Attempted, Unable To Forward, Return To Sender "

I guess this was never considered while Unveiling the New System.

[rose-dee]

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@bb_cool_stuff wrote:

Pin that I refunded on a couple of weeks back, probably with a Defect Attached, was returned to me today with the Label stating "Attempted, Unable To Forward, Return To Sender "

I guess this was never considered while Unveiling the New System.

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'bb' -- It seems to me there were a lot of situations they didn't consider when they came up with this cockamamie idea.

[bb_cool_stuff]

So True Rose, again, How is this my fault ?

She left me a nice message this morning, but her message mentions a Suite # .

While her address is right on her Paypal & eBay Order Details page, there is no mention of a Suite #.

Have sent her another message, I'll see what happens.

[mr.elmwood]

BB, I keep saying, it is not about fault. It is more about a level field for rating, plus, they do not want any "perfect" sellers anymore. Perfect is a lie. It is impossible.

I continue to reiterate, everyone is focusing on meaningless identifiable incidents. Before, you could not always do this.

So, once in a while you might get a defect for a mis-directed parcel, so what?  BB, at your rate of sales, and mine, we can get 4-5 a month, every month for a year, and still be under the 5%. Is your rate of defects anywhere near that? Anywhere near half of that?

Mine was at 3.7% a month or so ago. Since then, some have dropped off. I have had none in the last couple of months. Does that mean I will get 12-15 in one month? Not likely.

This is why we have a tolerance level of 5%, to catch the nonsense stuff that eBay just does not want to deal with.

The Class A sellers, on this board have zero to be concerned with, because yer all concerned ahead of time. You are all sharpening yer pencils ahead of time. You are all doing better listings, following better protocol, being far more pro-active, ahead of time.

Isn't that exactly what the Mother Ship wants?