IS IT LEGAL FOR eBay TO DIVERT TAX MONEY THROUGH MY PayPal ACCOUNT?

Does anyone know what the US and Canadian laws would be on this?  Can eBay legally deposit and withdraw the tax,  that eBay is required to collect,  through MY PayPal account?  I am really bothered by this.  We do not have a nexus in the US and are not registered to collect taxes from anyone.    I would like this to be spelled out very clearly.

Can anyone help on this?

Thanks.

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Re: IS IT LEGAL FOR eBay TO DIVERT TAX MONEY THROUGH MY PayPal ACCOUNT?

I'm keeping this thread alive. It continues to irritate me. 

I have not given permission for Ebay to stick their tax  money into my Paypal account. It's MY account, not theirs. 

And then to be further insulted by paying a fee on their funds, what arrogance!

They could easily program a work-around for this issue, but choose to take the easy route. Their new in-house payment system will eliminate this problem, so why bother.  

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Re: IS IT LEGAL FOR eBay TO DIVERT TAX MONEY THROUGH MY PayPal ACCOUNT?

You may be right.

EBay is slowly introducing their own Managed Payments program, and sellers who have had many years of satisfactory service through Paypal are grumbling about the change.

 

So far the only thing I've really heard about MP is that the fees are higher than PP, because it charged 29cents on each purchase instead of on each transaction (which may have several purchases bundled).

 

And Paypal has stopped refunding US sellers their percentage* fees on failed transactions. But that's on PP, not on eBay.

 

But if Managed Payments does not charge 2.9%** on Internet Sales Taxes that would be an encouragement to switch over.

 

It's convoluted....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*That could mean losing 30cents (which has always been non-refundable) plus up to 4.4% of the payment. On a failed $100 sale, that would be $4.70 gone, no matter who, if anyone, is at fault.

**3.4% to Canadian sellers.

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Re: IS IT LEGAL FOR eBay TO DIVERT TAX MONEY THROUGH MY PayPal ACCOUNT?

Ebay could just issue a equal credit every month on our fees we pay to them to offset the fees charged by paypal. Paypal is making money from Canadian sellers that could very well add up to a substantial sum every year and in my opinion it's nothing more than a cash grab by a greedy company. The sad thing is it's another example that ebay does not really care about sellers at all.
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Re: IS IT LEGAL FOR eBay TO DIVERT TAX MONEY THROUGH MY PayPal ACCOUNT?

Actually I disagree that this is a "cash grab" by Paypal. They are simply processing the money and taking their cut, which is their due. It's what they do.
The issue is Ebay's alone. They are placing their collected tax into our accounts. They should be putting these funds in their OWN accounts, and paying any resulting fees themselves.
Just think how many sales are made to US states, then calculate the Paypal fees being charged. It adds up to quite a sum!
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Re: IS IT LEGAL FOR eBay TO DIVERT TAX MONEY THROUGH MY PayPal ACCOUNT?


@renata6 wrote:

I'm keeping this thread alive. It continues to irritate me. 

I have not given permission for Ebay to stick their tax  money into my Paypal account. It's MY account, not theirs. 

And then to be further insulted by paying a fee on their funds, what arrogance!

They could easily program a work-around for this issue, but choose to take the easy route. Their new in-house payment system will eliminate this problem, so why bother.  


Hello  @renata6

 

I liked your post and I agree with it!

 

eBay is not only saving money by putting the cost of PayPal fees

for the collection of US State taxes on the backs of sellers ALL OVER THE WORLD,

eBay is also collecting a commission from each state for collecting

and remitting each state’s taxes.

@femmefan1946

I recently had taxes from the state of Texas added to my Japanese buyer’s invoice

and processed through MY PayPal account.

I decided to research Texas regarding commissions paid to registered Texas tax collectors

and remitters.   Texas allows a commission of 5%. 

So eBay not only saves on PayPal fees, but eBay also collects a 5% commission

from the taxes remitted to the  state of Texas. 

Between savings on PayPal fees and the commissions, the total amount could be HUGE!

 

I have not researched any other states but my assumption would be

that other states would allow a similar commission for anyone who processes

the collection and remittance of state taxes.

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Re: IS IT LEGAL FOR eBay TO DIVERT TAX MONEY THROUGH MY PayPal ACCOUNT?

Some do and some don't.

Ontario gave  retailers a commission on collecting and remitting taxes when I was working retail, but another seller who is currently an ON sales tax collector says this is no longer true. In Ontario.

 

I notice too that some freight forwarders in the USA are registering with the state they have their plant in to be excused from collecting the sales taxes on the obvious basis that the item is not staying in the state nor purchased by a state resident. If this is possible in Texas, the error is that of the forwarder, not specifically eBay. But it may not be possible there.

 

It's like GSP.  Many resellers here complain that they cannot learn how much duty and sales tax they are paying when their seller uses GSP for shipping. But the GSP  plainly states that the program is meant for B2C not B2B transactions.

 

There is a Big Picture.

EBay should not be shouldering sellers with the fees Paypal charges us.

But there are a lot of nuances within the Big Picture.

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Re: IS IT LEGAL FOR eBay TO DIVERT TAX MONEY THROUGH MY PayPal ACCOUNT?


@clemowbooks  wrote:

I notice too that some freight forwarders in the USA are registering with the state they have their plant in to be excused from collecting the sales taxes on the obvious basis that the item is not staying in the state nor purchased by a state resident. If this is possible in Texas, the error is that of the forwarder, not specifically eBay. But it may not be possible there.

 

 

There is a Big Picture.

EBay should not be shouldering sellers with the fees Paypal charges us.

But there are a lot of nuances within the Big Picture.


@clemowbooks

The error is not the freight forwarder's.   The freight forwarder is not charging the Japanese buyer any taxes.   The error is that eBay who knew that our buyer was from Japan  still went ahead and charged the Texas sales tax as if he were a Texas resident. 

 

Also PayPal knew that this buyer was from Japan because we were charged 3.9% commission on the PayPal payment even though the freight forwarder is in Texas.  Why did PayPal charge us the international rate and not the US rate of 3.7% since the parcel landed in Texas.  Also, why is PayPal charging us the "international" 3.9% fee on the tax portion when that tax money did not go to Japan, but stayed in the USA because it was collected by eBay, a US entity,  for the state of Texas, a US state?

 

Would be pleased if you could elaborate and comment on what you mean by the "Big Picture" and the "nuances". 

 

We agree with your statement that "eBay should not be shouldering sellers with the fees PayPal charges us".

 

 

Message 127 of 152
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Re: IS IT LEGAL FOR eBay TO DIVERT TAX MONEY THROUGH MY PayPal ACCOUNT?

Unless the forwarder notified Texas and got a pass on collecting taxes, eBay has to charge them since they are the address the seller ships to.

Forwarders do not register with eBay, or AZ , or WalMart  that they are reshipping goods.

And they may not be able to register with TX either.

Message 128 of 152
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Re: IS IT LEGAL FOR eBay TO DIVERT TAX MONEY THROUGH MY PayPal ACCOUNT?

The error is that eBay who knew that our buyer was from Japan  still went ahead and charged the Texas sales tax as if he were a Texas resident. 

 

Also PayPal knew that this buyer was from Japan because we were charged 3.9% commission on the PayPal payment even though the freight forwarder is in Texas.  Why did PayPal charge us the international rate and not the US rate of 3.7% since the parcel landed in Texas.  Also, why is PayPal charging us the "international" 3.9% fee on the tax portion when that tax money did not go to Japan, but stayed in the USA because it was collected by eBay, a US entity,  for the state of Texas, a US state?

 

The buyer was registered in Japan but ebay has no way of knowing if the item is staying in the US or if it is being forwarded.  The buyer could currently be in Texas or perhaps they purchased it as a gift for people in Texas...there are many different scenarios. The fact is that the package is on record as being shipped to Texas and that Texas has a marketplace facilitator tax so they are obliged to collect and submit the tax.  If ebay was the one forwarding the package they would know that the package was leaving the country so I  doubt that tax would  have to be charged. 

 

The buyer has a non Canadian Paypal account which is why you were charged the international fee.  If they were in the same city as you and used their Japanese PP to pay for something, you would be charged that same fee. It has nothing to do with where the buyer is right now.

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Re: IS IT LEGAL FOR eBay TO DIVERT TAX MONEY THROUGH MY PayPal ACCOUNT?

nuance
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Re: IS IT LEGAL FOR eBay TO DIVERT TAX MONEY THROUGH MY PayPal ACCOUNT?


@femmefan1946 wrote:
nuance

Not sure what you mean

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Re: IS IT LEGAL FOR eBay TO DIVERT TAX MONEY THROUGH MY PayPal ACCOUNT?

Those are the nuances - the details- that are as important as the overall view.
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Re: IS IT LEGAL FOR eBay TO DIVERT TAX MONEY THROUGH MY PayPal ACCOUNT?

The freight forwarder is not charging the Japanese buyer any taxes.

 

Well, actually.

You don't know that.

In the end the customer pays all the fees.

Most freight forwarders make sure the customer's country gets the duty and sales taxes required for the import.

Customs brokerage is part of their service.

Those import fees are charged to the customer. With the GSP, eBay's own freight forwarder, those are collected even before the original seller ships.

The Texas sales tax was paid by somebody. I'm confident that somebody was the forwarder, who then added that cost to his customer (your buyer)'s  bill.

 

So, yes.

The forwarder undoubtedly is charging the Japanese buyer the TX sales tax.

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Re: IS IT LEGAL FOR eBay TO DIVERT TAX MONEY THROUGH MY PayPal ACCOUNT?


@clemowbooks wrote:

The freight forwarder is not charging the Japanese buyer any taxes.

 

Well, actually.

You don't know that.

In the end the customer pays all the fees.

Most freight forwarders make sure the customer's country gets the duty and sales taxes required for the import.

Customs brokerage is part of their service.

Those import fees are charged to the customer. With the GSP, eBay's own freight forwarder, those are collected even before the original seller ships.

The Texas sales tax was paid by somebody. I'm confident that somebody was the forwarder, who then added that cost to his customer (your buyer)'s  bill.

 

So, yes.

The forwarder undoubtedly is charging the Japanese buyer the TX sales tax.


Are you sure about this?

Why would the Texas sales tax on the Japanese buyer's eBay purchase be paid by the forwarder? 

So eBay charged the Japanese buyer the TX sales tax on the invoice for his eBay purchase - the tax amount he paid which was funneled through my PayPal account and then the Japanese buyer gets dinged again for the Texas sales tax by the freight forwarder because the forwarder paid the tax for the Japanese buyer?  Japanese buyer had to pay TX sales tax twice???  

If that is the case, they are really being fleeced by the American States. 

When imported items go through foreign countries' customs, that is where they get assessed for their own country's duties and taxes.  That's the same that happens for us by Canadian customs.  It's our country's customs that collects the duties and taxes - not some freight forwarder in some other country.   At least, whenever I've had to pay any duties on my foreign purchases (and I've dealt with UK, Australia, New Zealand, Christmas Island, USA, and several others) , the payment went to Canadian Customs not to some other outfit in another country.

GSP is a totally separate set of conditions.

Message 134 of 152
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Re: IS IT LEGAL FOR eBay TO DIVERT TAX MONEY THROUGH MY PayPal ACCOUNT?

Why would the Texas sales tax on the Japanese buyer's eBay purchase be paid by the forwarder?

Because they are a registered business in Texas.

What the forwarder does with the items they process is not the state's concern.

 

Not to sound snarky, but have you ever run a retail B&M business as an owner or manager?

There are all kinds of unexpected costs. For example, the City of Ottawa does not include businesses in municipal garbage pickup. Each business has to arrange for disposal privately.  It's not part of the municipal business taxes that are collected.

 

When imported items go through foreign countries' customs, that is where they get assessed for their own country's duties and taxes.

  • The raw materials were taxed when they were sold at the mineface.
  • Then they were taxed when they were processed into a product (VAT- value added tax).
  • Then they were taxed when the manufacturer sold them to the wholesaler.
  • And again when the wholesaler sold them to the retailer.
  • And when the retailer sold them to the consumer.
  • Then if the consumer was overseas, that nation charged duty and tax on the import.
  • If the foreign consumer is a reseller, the item is taxed when he sells it to his customer.

 

Now, before you get all upset about that, at many of those points, the taxpayer can deduct the payment as an expense on his own taxes.

Canadian taxpayers have a deduction for federal and provincial taxes on our annual returns, for that matter.

 

If you can look at it in another way, stretch your imagination and in that paragraph that shows where taxes are charged, insert instead a trucker moving the  raw material to the refinery to the factory to the wholesaler to the retailer to the customer to the freight forwarder to the oveseas customer. 

Taxes like trucking are a cost of doing business.

And like trucking, taxes do provide benefits to the society- roads, schools, food inspection, hospitals, postal service, police and fire protection.

 

The only problem with the Internet Sales Tax is that eBay is not paying the Paypal fees for money they are passing through our PP accounts.

 

These are new taxes and there is a settling in period, during which errors and omissions will be identified and corrected, like sales tax being charged on clothing in a state where clothing is not taxed, which was reported on dotCOM this week.

 

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The forwarder wouldn’t charge the buyer state tax for their eBay purchase...they aren’t selling the item, they are simply shipping it. 

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@clemowbooks wrote:

Why would the Texas sales tax on the Japanese buyer's eBay purchase be paid by the forwarder?

1.Because they are a registered business in Texas.

What the forwarder does with the items they process is not the state's concern.

 

2. Not to sound snarky, but have you ever run a retail B&M business as an owner or manager?

3.  When imported items go through foreign countries' customs, that is where they get assessed for their own country's duties and taxes.

  • The raw materials were taxed when they were sold at the mineface.
  • Then they were taxed when they were processed into a product (VAT- value added tax).
  • Then they were taxed when the manufacturer sold them to the wholesaler.
  • And again when the wholesaler sold them to the retailer. ?????????????????
  • And when the retailer sold them to the consumer.
  • Then if the consumer was overseas, that nation charged duty and tax on the import.
  • If the foreign consumer is a reseller, the item is taxed when he sells it to his customer.

Now, before you get all upset about that, at many of those points, the taxpayer can deduct the payment as an expense on his own taxes.

Canadian taxpayers have a deduction for federal and provincial taxes on our annual returns, for that matter.

 

The only problem with the Internet Sales Tax is that eBay is not paying the Paypal fees for money they are passing through our PP accounts.

 


@clemowbooks

 

1. I didn't realize that a"freight forwarder" was in the business of paying state tax on other  people's purchases.   I thought they were a shipping company.  confoundedthinkingSmiley Surprised

2.Yes, our family has many years of experience in the retail business and in the hospitality business.

2.  We were in the retail business for many years but because we had a registered sales tax exemption number we never had to pay tax on the wholesale merchandise we ordered from our warehouse for retail sales.  Even when we went to trade shows and went to various wholesale warehouses to pick up inventory in person for our retail business we never paid any sales tax for our inventory.   We purchased inventory under our legal tax exemption number and we never paid any sales tax on our inventory.    We collected the sales taxes (pst & gst) from the end user and remitted it to the appropriate government.

I don`t know where you got your taxation rules from but here's the rules that apply in our province:

Taxes and Reporting
When you sell wholesale you do not charge sales tax on the order (the retailer will tax the customer for each item at time of purchase and that will be paid as sales tax on that item.)
PST and inventory-

http://kbaccountingservices.com/blog/Saskatchewan+Provincial+Sales+Tax+PST/6

Any purchases that are intended for resale, such as inventory, are PST exempt. Your PST number will be required by the supplier to verify the tax-exempt status.

Inventory items for resale, which will be taxed, are not applicable. These will ultimately be taxed when the end user purchases the items.

The rule of thumb, PST is charged once.

Some more information:

https://www.thebalancesmb.com/how-to-charge-and-remit-pst-in-saskatchewan-2948449

 

 

 

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@pjcdn2005 wrote:

The forwarder wouldn’t charge the buyer state tax for their eBay purchase...they aren’t selling the item, they are simply shipping it. 


@clemowbooks

 

I concur.  They are like an independent Post Office that handles overseas bulk shipping.

Thanks @pjcdn2005 for this straight forward clarification.

 

What is a freight forwarders role?
Freight forwarders play a vital role in the movement of goods from one place to another. ... While the movement of goods for individual customers is usually managed by postal and courier services, 'freight forwarding' commonly refers to the bulk movement of goods, also referred to as cargo or freight.
Fedex, UPS, and DHL are all examples of a "freight forwarder".
 
How did we get sidetracked into this discussion??? Smiley LOLSmiley Frustrated
This isn't even the topic!!unamused
Message 138 of 152
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Re: IS IT LEGAL FOR eBay TO DIVERT TAX MONEY THROUGH MY PayPal ACCOUNT?

Is there a part of Goods AND SERVICES that you don't understand?

Value Added taxes like the GST tax both the product and the service. You pay a sales tax on the labour when you hire a company to fix your roof.

And there is (often) a sales tax on a service like shipping.

The old Ontario sales tax -pre GST- did not tax on labour, but the newer GST does and I believe so does the current ON HST.

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Re: IS IT LEGAL FOR eBay TO DIVERT TAX MONEY THROUGH MY PayPal ACCOUNT?

As far as I know the US has a sales tax, not a goods and services tax.  Some states do charge use tax on shipping but since a forwarder is providing just a service...not a service with a sale, I doubt that they charge tax.  Even if they do, it wouldn’t be on the item being sent.

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