eBay

rocketscollectibles · ‎05-28-2024

I sold a old pack of trading cards sealed and the buyer opened it. Apparently the cards inside had defects and sticked together. Buyer contacted me agressive. I tried to explain that this is a risk to open old packs and quality issues is common with those. It was also written in the listing to educate buyers in case its bought for opening. Buyer was even told about it prior purchase (he contacted). He did not appreciate my reply (most likely expected me to just refund) and jumped to leave a negative. No photos provided, no return open. Left a huge negative and now just ghost my messages. He was just all-minded up to leave that negative and hurt me. He do not care about anything i say. I have more to sell and now it's dead, no one will buy until this feedback disapear.

Cards quality inside a brand new product is totally out of my control and fully at openner risk. His feedback is mainly about the quality issue of the cards inside. Blaming me for it. Blaming me for not taking responsibility of it. Blaming me for my reply. While he's the one not answering my messages, while item is basically as described, brand new and sealed. Plus a warning about the risk of opening. It's all legit.

Anything against policies to take responsible the seller for it? Don't it's considered a product review or something?

I requested a feedback removal to ebay but i'm curious if anyone had this situation before.

brettjet38 · ‎05-28-2024

BDNR - Buyers do not read (descriptions)

Buyer Remorse

If you want to list items with "issues" use Condition and create your own when listing, it shows up on the app on the main page, unlike Item Description which you have to click on in order to read, many buyers do not read that part of the listing.

ilikehockeyjerseys · ‎05-28-2024

https://www.ebay.com/sellerhelp/feedback

You have to use that link to request feedback removal.

eBay has become more strict with feedback removal, so I wouldn't get your hopes up.

It is technically the buyer's subjective review of the transaction, unless they did something like swear, insult you, or make a false claim. eBay does sometimes remove feedback if it is something out of a buyer's control, but I think the fact that you listed these as brand new will probably make that impossible to get removed. All collectors know that older packs can have sticky cards, but from eBay's POV an item known to have some sort of damage or defect item isn't a brand new item, even if it is sealed.

Just reply politely in a way that says yeah of course they stuck together you dingus it's noted in the listing and maybe emphasizes the value of how its a reasonable tradeoff because sealed packs of this product are otherwise difficult to find. Basically, make yourself seem reasonable, make the flaw seem reasonable (which it is), and emphasize the value in the sealed packs. It's basically a chance to market your product in a positive way to future buyers.

rocketscollectibles · ‎05-29-2024

You link is .com and does not work .ca

rocketscollectibles · ‎05-29-2024

I contacted ebay from the support chat and they requested me to send email. Which i did. Received reply saying the feedback was not against policies. With a generic text to educate me about how to deal with buyers complaining. That's non-sense. I don't understand how a seller can be blamed for product quality issues inside while it's brand new and sealed. We can't know about it. And buyer altered product so drastically decrease item value (some people collect sealed, and would pay full value for brand new and sealed), cant take a return. It's also very sus that the buyer did not open a return or provide any photo and he is ghosting me, i suspect his feedback has exageration and not all cards inside are fully damaged as he said. Frustrating that feedback is allowed.

byto253 · ‎05-29-2024

Does .ca have a link for feedback removal? If they do, I would still follow that process. In my experience one part of eBay is not that co-ordinated with another.

Whether the feedback is appropiate or not according to eBay terms - we can't really say without seeing the listing and the feedback. If listed as new, it is tricky since the description from eBay is that it is new and would not allow damaged product inside a sealed package, and a description does not get precedence over the condition selected.

Not sure of the options for card listings but I believe some vintage or collectable categories do not have a condition to select.

pjcdn2005 · ‎05-29-2024

I don't think a similar link is on.ca but you could have signed into .com and used that link.

But even if you had, I doubt that it would have removed.

rocketscollectibles · ‎05-29-2024

In all honesty i'm not even sure if the buyer opened the pack or not. He provided no photos or anything and just ghost my replies. He jumped to drop a neg on my first reply when i said it's common for them to be sticky due to age. As said in a previous reply it's sus he do not open a return. He wrote in feedback all cards are sticked together while if it's opened, it's almost impossible. He maybe did not even open it and talking about the pack sealed. It's obvious abusive buyer behavior and abusive feedback. He ghost me so i cannot do anything.

ricarmic · ‎05-29-2024

I would be surprised if other potential buyers will see the negative feedback, if you look at your feedback not signed in, you'll see as long as the default setting of "most relevant" is selected your negative probably doesn't even show up on the first page or two of feedbacks.

I can't look to see for you as I don't recall your "other self" but only a persistent looker in the new world is going to see it.

Based on the fact in my world, I can't even get them to read the whole titles anymore, I think the majority of buyers don't do exhaustive research anymore, at least for low value stuff....

But of course I could be wrong....

ilikehockeyjerseys · ‎05-29-2024

They will see the feedback on the Desktop version if they read the listing.

eBay now displays feedback at the bottom of a listing for an item. If it is a multi-quantity listing, eBay defaults to a feedback tab called "This Item" that displays what previous buyers have said about the item.

Most people don't read listings, but until OP gets a few positives that "hide" the negative in that view, people will see it if they read the listing.

With that said, I don't see it as a problem. The OP said that the sticky cards were something that they mention in the listing. If they reply politely and make it obvious that they offer great customer service and are not crazy, most people won't care. If someone doesn't order because a buyer reported sticky cards, that's probably a good thing because they would have also been upset with the sticky cards.

The only way around it would be to create an entirely new listing. The downside is that they would lose any watchers, views, and 'Best Offer' placement they accrued through the time the original listing was up. It's never a good idea to 'sell similar' on a listing that has a lot of activity, because the activity is self-perptuating. Having a lot of watchers, offers, and buyers early on gets you a guaranteed high spot in the Best Match search - but there is no guarantee that a similar new listing will accumulate the same amount of traffict to get it that spot again.

flipistics · ‎05-29-2024

@rocketscollectibles wrote:
I contacted ebay from the support chat and they requested me to send email. Which i did. Received reply saying the feedback was not against policies. With a generic text to educate me about how to deal with buyers complaining. That's non-sense. I don't understand how a seller can be blamed for product quality issues inside while it's brand new and sealed. We can't know about it. And buyer altered product so drastically decrease item value (some people collect sealed, and would pay full value for brand new and sealed), cant take a return. It's also very sus that the buyer did not open a return or provide any photo and he is ghosting me, i suspect his feedback has exageration and not all cards inside are fully damaged as he said. Frustrating that feedback is allowed.

In regards to your original problem, unfortunately there isn't a lot you can do. Report the buyer. If you're top rated, you can accept the return and refund half. For the feedback, respond to it (now that eBay has ruled that it will remain) and just say something along the lines that older sealed packs of cards often have these issues, that it was specifically stated in the ad, and that the buyer was additionally told this prior to purchase and acknowledged it. Keep all emotion out of the response. Do not accuse the buyer of anything, just state the facts.

In regards to the more general comment you made however (and I realize it doesn't apply in your specific case above because you apparently disclosed it),

@rocketscollectibles wrote:
I don't understand how a seller can be blamed for product quality issues inside while it's brand new and sealed. We can't know about it.

What do you think a buyer SHOULD do if they receive an item that is being sold as new and has issues? If it's older (or possibly even newer depending on policy), the buyer can't send it back to the manufacturer. There's no warranty. The buyer should absolutely NOT be out the money. An item that's sealed but broken or defective is part of the risk that a seller takes, and the risk should be priced into what the seller pays for the item. Again, this is a general comment, not something specific to the pack of cards you sold since you told the buyer that it was likely and they agreed.

ilikehockeyjerseys · ‎05-29-2024

I understand that everybody hates getting bad feedback, especially when they feel it is not justified. Myself included. But at the end of the day, you have to just accept it and move on. It's not a big enough deal to merit the amount of time and energy you may have spent dealing with this. Unless it is an issue where you genuinely made an error and you can contact the customer to resolve, I wouldn't spend more than 5 minutes on it. Craft a reasonable reply, fill out the feedback removal form (you have to sign in to the .com site) and move on.

eBay has no way to prove or disprove the claim made by the buyer. The point of feedback is to allow buyers to give their subjective view of the transaction. Subjective being the key term. They used to be a bit more open to arbitrating on a case by case basis, but these days they seem to only remove things if it is completely cut and dry. For example, I assume they would remove a feedback where a buyer says the item was never sent if you have tracking that shows delivery. They will not remove a feedback where the buyer says the item wasn't how I expected because of x or y reason, even if x or y reason contradicts what was written in the listing.

Your only option at this point is to basically ask the buyer if they would remove it via feedback revision in exchange for a refund. Personally, I would not do that.

It sucks, but it really is not a massive enough deal to merit wasting time, energy, or emotion on beyond the aformentioned 5 mintues to deal with it.

rocketscollectibles · ‎05-29-2024

What do you think a buyer SHOULD do if they receive an item that is being sold as new and has issues? If it's older (or possibly even newer depending on policy), the buyer can't send it back to the manufacturer. There's no warranty. The buyer should absolutely NOT be out the money. An item that's sealed but broken or defective is part of the risk that a seller takes, and the risk should be priced into what the seller pays for the item. Again, this is a general comment, not something specific to the pack of cards you sold since you told the buyer that it was likely and they agreed.

There is always a risk of opening brand new very old item. It is at opener risk to open. If you buy something very old, with a warning of the risk in the listing, in addition being told about the risk in private, you receive and you can see by yourself that it's sticky, and still you open. You are clearly responsible of your actions. The issue with this item is that people think they can open that $100 pack and send to grade the cards and make an easy $1k of profit, so when they open they can't accept the risk they took and blame the seller. It's literally like buying a lotery ticket and blaming the marchand for receiving a losing one.

byto253 · ‎05-30-2024

Agree about the risk with opening old items. But it is a nuance and reality that the eBay Condition options do not provide for, unless it is in a category that condition is not required. Anything listed as "New" all comes under the terms of "A brand-new, unused, unopened, undamaged item in its original packaging (where packaging is applicable)" and that is the top precedence in a dispute. Caveats and conditions in the description from a seller do not override that default description.

So if "new" was the selected condition, the risk is on the seller if there is an issue when it is opened up, regardless of age or description information. I don't really like that as it is crude tool and does not provide for situations like the cards. It also makes sellers have to find work arounds to protect themselves.

I sold a new in package vintage MP3 player and the buyer bought it to use, but the battery was shot and would not charge - 25 or so years old. And the battery type is truly unobtainable. As I listed it as new, I was on the hook and ended up refunding 75% of the purchase price as the buyer kept it as a wall hanger.

There are some vintage categories where there is no condition to select, just a box for "Condition description". e.g. Vintage Camera provide that. Not sure if there is anything in collectables or vintage areas that would be appropriate for cards. It is frustrating that it is hit and miss finding categories that only use this general description. A picture of that is below. For me I don't understand why vintage cameras provides it but vintage audio does not.

A lot of sellers of vintage audio will list a working item as for "for parts or not working" and state something like "tested and working when shipped but cannot guarantee operation due to vintage age".

I do understand that the selected description takes precedence in a dispute as to many seller's would want to list as "New" but then abuse the system with wording in the description. But there needs to be a better option for vintage sealed items, where it can be expected there is a high risk of product degradation inside the packaging that a seller cannot check on.

brettjet38 · ‎05-30-2024

https://www.ebay.ca/help/policies/selling-policies/seller-performance-policy/seller-performance-defe...

6 min article

Seller performance and feedback policy

We know that a seller’s reputation on eBay is an important factor in helping build a successful business. For this reason, we always want your seller performance ratings and feedback to properly reflect the service you provide to your buyers, and will adjust these in situations where we find that you were not at fault.

Based on the information we have, we'll automatically adjust your performance ratings, or remove feedback in some situations. You can also request a manual adjustment if you have additional information, such as tracking data showing that an item was delivered, that illustrates that you weren't at fault when something went wrong. For more details on when we adjust ratings or remove feedback, please see our full policy guidelines below.

Frequently Asked Questions

How do you measure my seller performance?

We measure seller performance using data from your seller account on your defect rate, late shipment rate, and cases closed without you resolving them.

For full details of how performance is evaluated, please read our Seller standards policy and Service metrics policy.

What kinds of defects can be removed, and how?

We automatically remove defects in certain situations, including where we find the buyer was at fault, if the problem was caused by an eBay site issue, or if there was an issue outside of your control like shipping service delays, or items being delayed because of an extreme weather event.

If you've had a defect removed for any of the reasons mentioned above, please note it can take up to two days for you ratings to be adjusted.

Read our full policy

Seller performance and feedback policy overview

Most sales go smoothly. When you follow selling best practices and make sure the items you list are in stock, you work with a customer when an issue arises, and you ship within your stated handling time, your buyers will have a great experience and are more likely to buy from you again.

Occasionally, there may be an issue with a transaction. When certain transaction problems happen, you can track them in your seller standards dashboard.

This policy outlines when we adjust your performance evaluation and feedback.

How is selling performance measured?

Seller performance standards focus on what matters most to buyers—getting the item they ordered on time, and effective customer service to resolve any requests for help.

This is measured in 3 metrics:

Defect rate
Late shipment rate
Cases closed without seller resolution

For full details of how your seller level is evaluated, please read our Seller standards policy article and Service metrics policy.

Can defects, late shipments, or feedback be appealed?

We automatically remove defects, adjust your late shipment rate, and remove feedback in the instances described in the guidelines below.

Things to keep in mind:

Automatic adjustments happen daily, but please allow up to 72 hours for them to show in your seller standards dashboard or your feedback profile
Appeals aren't considered if tracking shows the item is still in transit, if there is an open eBay Money Back Guarantee request, or a refund hasn't been issued for a returned item
You may qualify for automatic 5-star detailed seller ratings and other protections outlined in the Seller Protection Policy

Activity on eBay is required to follow this policy, the eBay User Agreement and all applicable laws, as well as respect the rights of third parties. If it doesn’t, eBay may take action consistent with applicable laws and the eBay User Agreement, and may even be legally required to do so. Such actions may include, as an example only: Removing the listing or other content, issuing a warning, restricting activity or account suspension.

What are the guidelines?

Automatically removed

We automatically remove defects, adjust your late shipment rate, and remove feedback when:

The buyer didn't pay for an order and you cancelled it using Buyer hasn't paid as the reason
The defect, feedback, or late shipment was the direct result of an eBay site issue or program error
The delivery estimate shown in the listing was shortened, but tracking shows the item was delivered by the carrier's longest delivery estimate
We take action against a buyer for violating the Abusive buyer policy
We take action to close an eBay Money Back Guarantee case or appeal request in favor of the seller
We instruct you to hold a shipment or take action to cancel the transaction
We can determine through valid tracking that the defect, feedback, or late shipment was the direct result of systemic delays in shipping or communication. Examples include wide-scale shipping carrier delays, items stuck in customs, or power outages due to extreme weather. Actual qualifying events are listed on our announcement board

Not eligible for removal

The following scenarios aren't eligible for removal:

We may remove a feedback comment that violates eBay policy, such as containing profanity or links, but the feedback rating or any defects aren't necessarily removed
Late shipment appeals for transactions without tracking to verify on-time order fulfillment or delivery

Manual review

There are some circumstances where a defect, feedback, or late shipment can be manually reviewed. Sellers may appeal in these cases, but must make the request within 90 days of the transaction.

Examples include:

You upload tracking, prior to the defect occurring, that confirms the item was shipped within the handling time or the item was delivered by the latest estimated delivery date, but the late shipment rate wasn't automatically updated because the tracking isn't integrated with eBay
In cases where there is an attempted delivery, we consider this "delivered" for the purposes of adjusting late shipment rate or removing feedback
The feedback comment contained inappropriate content (such as profanity) as described in our Member-to-member contact policy. While inappropriate comments will be removed, the rating will remain

Why does eBay have this policy?

We adjust seller performance metrics when we have objective information available in our system, or through carrier tracking that shows the seller fulfilled all elements of the transaction and the defect, feedback, or late shipment was not accurate.

brettjet38 · ‎05-30-2024

Item condition

Used

Condition description

Let the buyer know what makes your item unique, including any interesting features or flaws.

When I am selling USED/NEW inventory or sealed I always use "used" and list the details including the condition and any issues in the space provided.

The above is from the Buttons category.

If you list it as "NEW"

You are obliged to follow eBay policy if a Buyer has an issue with the item's condition if it was sealed and has issues when opened, regardless of what your description says, it was listed as NEW

That is all eBay will look at...

You will automatically lose any claim, as for your FB I doubt you will get it removed unless it violates eBay policy.

rocketscollectibles · ‎05-30-2024

I was not really talking about ebay condition/return rules. But well if you guys want to talk about rules. It is also in policies that a buyer returning a item must be in the exact same condition than received. The item was sold as brand new and sealed and was brand new and sealed. It would must be returned unopened. Which is not. The buyer altered the item and the value of it. So even if talk about rules, it's grey zone.

Your item didn't match the listing, or it arrived faulty or damaged

Accept your return request and offer a full refund – You'll return the item in the same condition in which it was received

mrdutch1001 · ‎05-30-2024

Condition/return rules/ what does it matter in hindsight? Sometimes we just have to eat/live with a bad feedback and get on with life. Nothing in this discussion is going to have any affect on the feedback. Feedback is only an opinion, a feeling about the transaction and/or the item and for the most part a mostly useless aspect in the selling/buying world and whether good, bad or ugly, feedback is what it is and what is done is done. At this point it doesn't really matter anymore, IF the buyer is unwilling to return the item(wherein a partial refund could be issued) and the buyer has no further interest in any discussions on the matter. All the positive feedbacks outweigh any bad ones and other potential buyers wiill see the feedback for what it is...Best to forget it and move on... and the best way to move on is to accept what is, make any adjustments with other listings to help avoid future confrontations, adapt an attitude wherein you can better deal with such situations without the public angst, and carry on!

C'est la vie!

lotzofuniquegoodies · ‎05-30-2024

@mrdutch1001 wrote:
Condition/return rules/ what does it matter in hindsight? Sometimes we just have to eat/live with a bad feedback and get on with life. Nothing in this discussion is going to have any affect on the feedback. Feedback is only an opinion, a feeling about the transaction and/or the item and for the most part a mostly useless aspect in the selling/buying world and whether good, bad or ugly, feedback is what it is and what is done is done. At this point it doesn't really matter anymore, IF the buyer is unwilling to return the item(wherein a partial refund could be issued) and the buyer has no further interest in any discussions on the matter. All the positive feedbacks outweigh any bad ones and other potential buyers wiill see the feedback for what it is...Best to forget it and move on... and the best way to move on is to accept what is, make any adjustments with other listings to help avoid future confrontations, adapt an attitude wherein you can better deal with such situations without the public angst, and carry on!
C'est la vie!

@rocketscollectibles

@brettjet38

@mrdutch1001

Only as an aside, but it would interesting how often or if ever eBay actually enforces that little addendum about items being returned properly and in the same condition they, for the sake of argument, arrived in? I know there are have been situations where items have been returned by a buyer and item is showing still in transit, the refund is just processed, basically before the goods had a chance to actually arrive and be inspected. Similar that a seller has limited control of items arriving on time to a buyer it works the same way in reverse. Especially if the buyer did not mark any shipping label properly that could be the cause of an item being delayed. And if a buyer sends something back to a seller, packs it less than as good as it left should that buyer still qualify for a refund? More stuff for the hmmm department!!!

When eBay does little to make any kind of claims process (claims require the cooperation of MULTIPLE parties) with the courier etc easy, sounds like eBay is just washing their hands of these situations and leaving sellers blowing in the wind.

In checking the eBay help pages there isn't even an actual policy in handling processing a claim from the sellers perspective. Amazon, Staples, Rona, LD have one.

-Lotz