Nothing seems to sell anymore

[krf654]

Is it just me or has anyone noticed that EBay is not what it used to be. Nothing seems to sell anymore, except the poor quality cheap merchandise from China! Too bad those large quantity sellers are allowed. Facebook auctions are the new trend. Selling is fantastic.
That's the way I am going now.

[stonehook_molds]

In follow-up to my previous post, we did not leave because eBay wasn’t working for us, but because we were no longer willing to work for eBay. We could read the writing on the wall and we knew that the opportunity of being in partnership with eBay, a notion that existed at one time, was no longer being offered.

And, I don’t like being micro-managed, as it interferes with and ultimately damages my business. I didn’t like being told a couple of years ago that any direct communication with my customer would leave me open to the possibility of a damaging star rating. It didn’t sit well with me when I became aware that refunding a nervous buyer, who was worried about their first delivery ever from Canada, had earned me a defect. And it makes no sense to me that a buyer can’t purchase an item of mine that is listed in “Home and Garden”, with a cheque or money order, but could if they wanted to purchase an item listed in the “Adult Only” category.

And that’s my point – I could cite so many eBay policies that have personally hurt our sales, over the years, that when they started to make it clear that they were also prepared to hurt our reputation, we were done. We were not willing to be simply reduced to being eBay sellers, we are a completely separate business who were paying for a service, that in my opinion is not being rendered effectively or productively.

So, over the last couple of years we began to expand our online sales presence – and we now only sell on venues that consider themselves a marketplace where an independent business can ply their trade. And we have a couple of websites that we pay (an amount equal to our monthly eBay fees) to advertise.

For us it has been a good business decision, but one I will admit wasn’t easy as I still have a lot of affection for this place. It opened our company up to the world and that was life-changing.

Best of luck everyone and here's hoping for stellar sales.

Lisa

[sylviebee]

Your post is well written and like last time it sounds like you really understand your business, and that's why I'm left with several questions.

Other sellers complain that sales are down, but that's not your complaint.

You are one of a very few sellers who has a Top Rated Plus badge on .com!

That means that you've done everything right by eBay standards.

You must have been making some money here and for very little effort could continue to do so but you have decided to walk away ............... (for now).

When I read between the lines it sounds like, in addition to the fact that you don't like the paypal monopoly, your real complaint is that you are upset with a system that punishes sellers unfairly.
It's very offensive to get defects when one is going the limit and doing everything right to satisfy buyers.

The defect system makes no sense. That's why I've opted to ignore it. 

I'm aware of it enough to know what I have to do to avoid defects as much as possible, but no more than absolutely necessary.

Getting slapped unfairly is difficult to swallow because it's human nature to expect justice, and for you it's offensive enough to leave the venue entirely.

I'm not sure that's a sound business decision, but I do understand that some may be so stressed by the unfairness of it all it's best just to walk away.

[73rhc]

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong. But I got this from an eBay manager. Sellers cannot ask for payment options, other than within the policy. However, this manager said that buyers can, albeit non recommended, send money orders, cash or suggest other methods of payment.

I've been on eBay since 1997 (2000 under my current username) and at no time was it ever implied that there was some sort of partnership.

As for the star rating and defect system, it's just plain paranoia to leave when you've had no incidents. Are you going to sell your car because of your fear of getting a speeding ticket?

[pierrelebel]

"this manager said that buyers can, albeit non recommended, send money orders, cash or suggest other methods of payment."

That is correct.

Many buyers (Canadians and Americans) still pay by personal cheques (checks) and money orders.  A few also use Interac email Money Transfer if they are in a rush.

[stonehook_molds]

No, I don't have a paranoid bone in my body. I began to equate our continuation on eBay with someone staying in a bad marriage simply because of the economic advantage, or remaining in a horrible job situation, where you constantly feel like you could lose your position at anytime for irrational, arbitrary reasons, simply because you fear change. We didn't commit hari-kari, we just moved on.

And, if you check eBay's payment policies you will see the long list of restricted payment options (except for some categories) that include: sending cash or money orders through instant, point-to-point cash transfer services such as Western Union or MoneyGram; mailing cheques or money orders; paying through bank-to-bank transfers; etc.

As well, according to their guidelines:

These rules apply to all transaction-related correspondence between a seller and buyer, as well as to the listings.

In addition, you aren't allowed to make statements such as:

• "Contact us for payment information."

• "Contact us for other payment methods."

• "Contact us for your preferred payment method."

[73rhc]

I know the policy very well! Again!!! the seller cannot ask for other forms of payment. THE BUYER CAN ASK AND IT'S OKAY!!!!

No paranoia here. Nope.

[pierrelebel]

"the seller cannot ask for other forms of payment."

That is correct. 

You may also notice that many sellers - those willing to accept payment by mail - include their mailing address within the listing description or payment instructions.  Adding a mailing address is allowed by eBay as long as there is no solicitation.

[73rhc]

Is there something that you are not telling us? Sounds fishy to leave for these unfounded reasons!

[kashka]

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@rockcliffmachine wrote:

In follow-up to my previous post, we did not leave because eBay wasn’t working for us, but because we were no longer willing to work for eBay. We could read the writing on the wall and we knew that the opportunity of being in partnership with eBay, a notion that existed at one time, was no longer being offered.

And, I don’t like being micro-managed, as it interferes with and ultimately damages my business. I didn’t like being told a couple of years ago that any direct communication with my customer would leave me open to the possibility of a damaging star rating. It didn’t sit well with me when I became aware that refunding a nervous buyer, who was worried about their first delivery ever from Canada, had earned me a defect. And it makes no sense to me that a buyer can’t purchase an item of mine that is listed in “Home and Garden”, with a cheque or money order, but could if they wanted to purchase an item listed in the “Adult Only” category.

And that’s my point – I could cite so many eBay policies that have personally hurt our sales, over the years, that when they started to make it clear that they were also prepared to hurt our reputation, we were done. We were not willing to be simply reduced to being eBay sellers, we are a completely separate business who were paying for a service, that in my opinion is not being rendered effectively or productively.

So, over the last couple of years we began to expand our online sales presence – and we now only sell on venues that consider themselves a marketplace where an independent business can ply their trade. And we have a couple of websites that we pay (an amount equal to our monthly eBay fees) to advertise.

For us it has been a good business decision, but one I will admit wasn’t easy as I still have a lot of affection for this place. It opened our company up to the world and that was life-changing.

Best of luck everyone and here's hoping for stellar sales.

Lisa

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Congrats on your success and with leaving this venue behind! I especially loved your line ".. eBay wasn’t working for us, but because we were no longer willing to work for eBay." My situation was very similar.I read the writing on the wall also..this is my business and not Ebays'..When I joined they were just a " venue"  and then they began wanting to micromanage you to death and wanted in on every aspect of your selling..well..no thanks.

Now I sell elsewhere,sell more, make more money..and god forbid,I communicate with my buyers like the old days...even to the point of exchanging Christmas greetings.And you know..those customers come back and buy more items.No worry about defects,scamming buyers or constant policy changes just for the sake of change ..just good old buy and sell.Life is good.

May your sales keep increasing 🙂

lisa

Oh..and 73hrc,the situation doesnt have to be "fishy" if one wants to go and sell elsewhere just because they want to have sole control of their business.People can make choices as that is one of the things left that ebay can't charge a fee on or give you a defect for.

[maggiebvintage2010]

rockcliffmachine - congrats!  Visited some of your sites - your products look great and I see something I'd like.  I'll be buying from you in the near future.  It's great to hear of a success story where seller outgrows venue.  Love your entrepreneurial spirit.

[reallynicestamps]

And it makes no sense to me that a buyer can’t purchase an item of mine that is listed in “Home and Garden”, with a cheque or money order,


The buyer can offer any form of payment she wants. No matter what the category. (The seller is not required to accept it.
)
I wouldn't accept a personal cheque for example, but would accept a money order.

It just takes forever to get them. Best are the International Postal Money Orders that can be cashed immediately at the PO , unlike other brands that have to go into the bank and take days to clear. 
But I like the instant gratification of PP.


but could if they wanted to purchase an item listed in the “Adult Only” category.

The reason the seller can ask for MOs or other forms of payment for 'adult' items is that Paypal will not process such payments, which goes back some years to court cases revolving on gambling sites, money laundering and pornography. PP decided that 'family friendly' was the way to grow and has refused 'naughty' money ever since.

[73rhc]

"Oh..and 73hrc,the situation doesnt have to be "fishy" if one wants to go and sell elsewhere just because they want to have sole control of their business.People can make choices as that is one of the things left that ebay can't charge a fee on or give you a defect for."

It's still sounds fishy to me. And that's my opinion, if you don't like me opinion, oh well...

It is a bad business decision to leave a site where you are making a profit and have never had a problem, but fear it. Why can't you sell elsewhere and here, as well? Many do!

So you are telling me that you have "sole control" on other sites?! Please do tell!

[rose-dee]

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@rockcliffmachine wrote:

No, I don't have a paranoid bone in my body. I began to equate our continuation on eBay with someone staying in a bad marriage simply because of the economic advantage, or remaining in a horrible job situation, where you constantly feel like you could lose your position at anytime for irrational, arbitrary reasons, simply because you fear change. We didn't commit hari-kari, we just moved on. 

---

I can completely understand your reasoning.  Good for you that you were able to branch out and leave eBay behind.  You have some great products -- what a shame that eBay can't provide a comfortable place to keep a seller like you.  

Those of us who feel that establishing customer relationships and offering flexible terms is important for the development of our businesses have a hard time with the "new eBay", where it seems every aspect of the selling/buying stream and the seller/buyer relationship is micro-managed and automated, and where even inadvertent errors are subject to immediate and irrevocable punishment.  

Ironic, isn't it, that in its effort to make "perfect sellers" out of us all, eBay has actually managed to drive some of the most valuable and experienced sellers away.  

I have to say that for many of the reasons you've cited (and more besides those), for me eBay is on probation over the next year as far as I'm concerned.  Like you, I'm doing so well elsewhere (and am so much happier being in control of my own decision-making again) that it makes eBay look like a very unpleasant and draconian place to sell, and well, frankly, more and more pointless in comparison.  

Best of luck to you!

[73rhc]

"Those of us who feel that establishing customer relationships and offering flexible terms is important for the development of our businesses have a hard time with the "new eBay", where it seems every aspect of the selling/buying stream and the seller/buyer relationship is micro-managed and automated, and where even inadvertent errors are subject to immediate and irrevocable punishment. "


Inadvertent errors are subject to immediate and irrevocable punishment? Really? Irrevocable? I used to hate when certain posters would say "eBay us not for everyone" but in this situation it applies to you and all who believe in this paranoia. Where the possibility is the doom and gloom. Like I said before, sell your cars because maybe, just maybe one day you might get a speeding or parking ticket.

Seems that some sellers have gone soft. Toughen up or shutdown your business'. It's nit a social club and it's certainly not for you! Arrrrrgh!

[rose-dee]

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@73rhc wrote:

It is a bad business decision to leave a site where you are making a profit and have never had a problem, but fear it. Why can't you sell elsewhere and here, as well? Many do!

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Well, I can't speak for the others here, but I can answer this very easily from my own perspective.  The business equation for me is actually quite simple: it has been taking more and more of my time for a smaller return to stay on eBay than investing that time and effort in other selling modes or venues.  

This wasn't true of eBay up until about late 2012 early 2013 -- it was a somewhat complex site to sell on, but not onerous.  However, after that time, rules and policies ballooned, so staying at the top of the heap as a seller has meant a greater and greater commitment of time and effort simply to keep up with changes and developments that directly impact my ability to continue to sell well.  

EBay now gives no quarter: if you aren't aware of policies and rules and make a mis-step, tough, you get thrown to the bottom of the ladder.  The only way to prevent that, and to keep one's head above water, is to be vigilant, pro-active, keep studying eBay "legislation" so that you clearly understand how it applies to your selling activities, and stay ahead of the curve.  All of that takes a lot of time, but the point is that the relative return on that time and effort continues to go down.  Add to the convoluted and complicated edifice of policy that eBay has built up the almost ludicrous shape-shifting and dysfunction of this site, and it's a wonder anybody bothers to stay.  Heck, they can't even make their checkout/payment system work across their sites! 

I'd have no grievances with eBay if the metamorphosis this venue went through over the last 3 or 4 years resulted in steadily increasing profits for sellers like me.  In fact what I've found is that more and more input on my part is yielding less and less in terms of the bottom line.  

If there aren't some major changes on eBay over the next year to remedy some of the serious defects and flaws on this site, including the mess they've made of rules and policies, it's going to be very hard for me to continue to justify putting more and more effort into selling here while my profits are proportionately lower.  

Simply put, in comparison, the input/output equation on the two other sites from which I sell is far better and with far fewer restrictions involved.  

[jt-libra]

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@73rhc wrote:

Seems that some sellers have gone soft. Toughen up or shutdown your business'. It's nit a social club and it's certainly not for you! Arrrrrgh!

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Why so nasty??

[rose-dee]

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@73rhc wrote:

Seems that some sellers have gone soft. Toughen up or shutdown your business'. It's nit a social club and it's certainly not for you! Arrrrrgh!

---

Actually, remaining a top rated seller on eBay has meant toughening up -- a lot.  A little application of paranoia does in fact help.  How else can we avoid the pitfalls unless we're keenly aware of them, especially when (for a smaller seller) a few mis-steps can mean being thrown down the competitive ladder?  

To use your analogy, unless you have a healthy respect for (= some fear of) the law, and pay attention to speed control signs and parking restrictions, you're going to get so many tickets that you won't be able to drive that car anyway.

I see so many newbie sellers who come to these boards with problems -- often rather serious ones  -- that could so easily and obviously have been avoided by a combination of self-education and a healthy dose of the fear of eBay.  How does being oblivious to the rules and deliberately blind to the dangers of being downgraded by eBay further anybody's business interests? 

It's those who think there are no pitfalls and carry on happily ignorant of the rules who will fall into them, sooner or later.  And when that happens, and the seller's status is downgraded, the ability to climb back up out of the pit is even harder.  

No, I prefer to be hyper-aware and stay above the fray rather than blithely strolling around pretending there are no dangers.  On eBay, that's the only way to continue to make a decent profit nowadays.  And that, my friend, takes work, tough work, and even courage.  

[sylviebee]

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@rose-dee wrote:

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if you aren't aware of policies and rules and make a mis-step, tough, you get thrown to the bottom of the ladder.  The only way to prevent that, and to keep one's head above water, is to be vigilant, pro-active, keep studying eBay "legislation" so that you clearly understand how it applies to your selling activities, and stay ahead of the curve.  All of that takes a lot of time, but the point is that the relative return on that time and effort continues to go down.   

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I completely understand rockcliffmachine's decision to leave eBay.   Note that they also have their own site in addition to selling on other venues.   Rock........set themselves up to have the freedom to leave.  They are in control of their business and kudos to them.

I've been doing the same for many years.  I've been uncomfortable with eBay's rating/FB systems all along and saw that running a business that depended on eBay's viewing me as a worthy seller is way too risky and stressful.

Most sellers have painted themselves into a corner and eBay is their only viable choice.

rose-dee........ I agree that it does take a lot of time to keep on top of eBay's rules etc.,   You are starting to question if it's worth the effort.

To me it's me it's been clear for a long time that it's pointless.

Efforts are much better spent  making sales.  I'm here to make money not know the rules inside out.

I am not saying that one shouldn't be aware of how the system operates, but hyper-vigilance and worrying about "defects" and how to avoid them aren't productive.

In fact, the most likely outcome is that you'll just end up outraged at the unfairness of it all, because it's grossly unfair and everyone knows it.

Some can't live with that.  

Leaving eBay if you're stressed by it all and have set yourself up to do so makes complete sense to me.

[jt-libra]

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@sylviebee wrote:

 rose-dee........ I agree that it does take a lot of time to keep on top of eBay's rules etc.,   You are starting to question if it's worth the effort.

To me it's me it's been clear for a long time that it's pointless.

Efforts are much better spent  making sales.  I'm here to make money not know the rules inside out.

I am not saying that one shouldn't be aware of how the system operates, but hyper-vigilance and worrying about "defects" and how to avoid them aren't productive.

In fact, the most likely outcome is that you'll just end up outraged at the unfairness of it all, because it's grossly unfair and everyone knows it.

Some can't live with that.  

Leaving eBay if you're stressed by it all and have set yourself up to do so makes complete sense to me. 

___________________________________________________________________

I wholeheartedly agree.  An excerpt from a post I wrote on another thread this morning:

"...... I've come to accept that it's just a matter of time until I fall off this tightrope that eBay has us walking and my selling career will be in the dumps or sorely damaged.  There is nothing more I can do, or am willing to do, to satisfy their ever-changing and new requirements."

[sylviebee]

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@jt-libra wrote:

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___________________________________________________________________

I wholeheartedly agree.  An excerpt from a post I wrote on another thread this morning:

"...... I've come to accept that it's just a matter of time until I fall off this tightrope that eBay has us walking and my selling career will be in the dumps or sorely damaged.  There is nothing more I can do, or am willing to do, to satisfy their ever-changing and new requirements."

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.. And yet you have your Top Rated Seller Badge intact!  Even if you lose the badge it doesn't mean that selling on eBay wouldn't be worth your while.

While I fully understand why someone would leave eBay altogether, I'll probably never go.  I'm way too greedy for that.  eBay has its uses.