PayPal not Refunding the PP Fee Comission?

A buyer recently decided to change their order so I did whats done and cancelled, refunded, relisted and they then purchased a slightly different order. This has got the job done for decades, I have to pay a .30 fee, but the buyer is happy - a sale is made and all sides make out better for it.


Last week PP did not refund the PayPal Fee and after calling they told me they now keep the full commission as well as the fixed portion.


In the User Agreement it states: "If you refund a transaction to a buyer or donation to a doner, PayPal retains the fixed fee portion of the fees paid." This makes sense. To the states it is 0.30, has been for some time. They do not get keep the commission on the transaction, they can't - the transaction never occured!


Does anyone know what's going on? I heard they attempted this in the states and everybody rightly freaked out. Please say they are not attempting it here, has anyone run into this?

 

(And when did they nerf this forum, its difficult to find things now. 😕

Message 1 of 12
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Re: PayPal not Refunding the PP Fee Comission?

The transaction actually occured, otherwise you would not be able to refund it!
Paypal did its job the first time; it's not their problem if you decide to reverse it, and they got fed up of eating their share for doing 2 operations (getting the payment, and then refunding it).  It's their own right not to refund what the service costs them.  It's been like that for more than a year!

Message 2 of 12
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Re: PayPal not Refunding the PP Fee Comission?

That is the policy for the past thirty years. And it is not in the terms of service new or old as far as I can find. If so, indicate where? As what is quoted above is literally taken word for word from the policy.


Working with them that is how it works, it is how it works at banking institutions and it is how it works in any sales forum. It is why there are two portions to the fee system, a fixed and a percentage. In this case the transaction is fixed cost 0.30 as stated on the PP website (or technically 0.60, .30 in and .30 out though they have never charged this) - know your rights! It is an incompleted sale and yes, everyone did their job.


So respectfully no. If you sell something on eBay and the buyer cancels a sale are you saying eBay gets to keep their sale fee? They don't! They refund it because its not a completed sale. It makes sense for everyone involved. The cost of the transaction is .30 and they charge and keep that.


Many things have been reversed in my sales in the past year, and the decades previous, and all retain the fixed portion and refund the commission. The tenative sale is not being cancelled out of malice, it is nor being cancelled because an item is defective or a case dispute was lost. In those situations PP retains both portions, as does eBay. It is in stark contrast and this is appropriately spelt out in the TOS if a claim is lost, "you will not receive a refund of the PayPal fees that you paid in connection with the sale." Note the plural, it refers to both the fixed and commission formula. This is also stated at the General section and offically spelt out as "Chargeback and DIspute fees." The sale was not invalidated or reversed according to TOS. Its used as a "deterent" (also a corporate excuse to keep funds but I digress). In those cases they keep the fixed fee and the commission, always have. To some extend that is logical, as long as the disputes system isn't a kangroo (no comment atm).


The buyer has a right to change their mind, this benefits everyone. Taking the commission in this manner is a different type of stick, and frankly its mafiaesque. And as far as I can see it hasn't been snuck into the terms of service.

 

Does anyone have any experience with this? They attempt things from time to time to see what folks will roll over towards and they attempted this in the states and folks rightfully stood up for their rights. The standard policy as its been for 30 years holds because it favours all parties.

Message 3 of 12
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Re: PayPal not Refunding the PP Fee Comission?

Unfortunately, they changed the rules during last year. I don't remember exactly when, but it's been like that for almost a year now.

 

Update: I just found the email they sent me on March 16, 2020. They say and I quote: "This is a friendly reminder that, as of May, 19th 2020, these changes will go into effect globally. (.....) In line with industry practice and according to our updated policy, we will not charge a fee to process refunds; however, fees from the original transaction will not be returned."

On their website: https://www.paypal.com/ca/webapps/mpp/ua/useragreement-full?locale.x=en_CA#accepting-payments

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Re: PayPal not Refunding the PP Fee Comission?

If that is the case, given a 13% bounce rate from customers and sale prices in the thousands  I can no longer afford to sell using PayPal. Its mandatory so I suppose selling wont be a thing. Out of work. It is a punishment akin to a punch in the face. Can you imagine that? Charges for things that don't occur, fees where money doesn't exist. History has been there before we're in for a rough ride. Well, its thought crimes next. Good bye folks. To the next life!

 

I'd still like to see where its in the TOS. Because I can't find it.

Message 5 of 12
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Re: PayPal not Refunding the PP Fee Comission?

 Soon you will no longer be in control of how you accept payment on eBay= there will be NO PayPal option for sellers= yes, buyers can still use PayPal but sellers will not have the option of any funds going to a PayPal account=ALL sellers will be opening bank accounts for eBay to deposit any sales monies=Sellers are being mandated into eBay's Managed Payment system and its goodbye Paypal ...

and you thought PayPal's no longer refunding fees was a deal breaker, me thinks you are in for a whole lot more surprises with Managed Payments!

Message 6 of 12
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Re: PayPal not Refunding the PP Fee Comission?

It's not in the eBay TOS because it is a PP rule, not eBay.  As another poster mentioned it has been in effect in Canada for almost a year and in he US for quite a bit longer.

 

  • We are establishing that if merchants refund (partially or fully) a transaction to a buyer or a donation to a donor, there are no fees to make the refund, but the fees originally paid by the merchant will not be returned. This change will become effective on May 19, 2020.

https://www.paypal.com/ca/webapps/mpp/ua/archive-policies-full?locale.x=en_CA

 

Message 7 of 12
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Re: PayPal not Refunding the PP Fee Comission?

Ebays Managed Payments system which collects fvf and payment processing fees does refund all fees for cancellations and when a buyer  is refunded voluntarily  (before eBay is asked to step in) except for the .30 transaction fee.

Message 8 of 12
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Re: PayPal not Refunding the PP Fee Comission?

"Soon you will no longer be in control of how you accept payment on eBay......

 

Before MP our only option was to accept  PP so we haven't been  'in control' on how we wanted to accept payment for years.

Message 9 of 12
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Re: PayPal not Refunding the PP Fee Comission?


@tryubik-useonlyasdirected wrote:

If that is the case, given a 13% bounce rate from customers and sale prices in the thousands  I can no longer afford to sell using PayPal. Its mandatory so I suppose selling wont be a thing. Out of work. It is a punishment akin to a punch in the face. Can you imagine that? Charges for things that don't occur, fees where money doesn't exist. History has been there before we're in for a rough ride. Well, its thought crimes next. Good bye folks. To the next life!

 

I'd still like to see where its in the TOS. Because I can't find it.


It's similar to what happens when you make a purchase on eBay that involves a different currency and then the purchase is either cancelled or refunded. If it is refunded within a certain time frame (I believe 24 hours)  it mirrors the original payment. Any delay it's based on the rate applicable to the date or refund. If you make a purchase in a Canadian store with a different currency and it gets refunded down the road its refunded based  on the original transaction exchange rate. If it's a small amount it would be pennies. Larger it could be a substantial difference or loss due to no fault of the buyer. How they process in MP is anyone's guess??? It's not like the seller can see what exchange rate was applied at the time of a transaction.

 

This all interconnects back to sellers having the capability to control their funds and moving them to US bank account and exchanging when THEY want.

 

-Lotz

Message 10 of 12
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Re: PayPal not Refunding the PP Fee Comission?

yes indeed = poor wording on my part...meant to indicate sellers  would soon not have to worry about what fees PayPal controls & charges,  but rather what fees eBay controls & charges ...

Message 11 of 12
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Re: PayPal not Refunding the PP Fee Comission?

In the link I gave, it's in the "Refunds, Reversals and Chargebacks" section under "General Information" - second paragraph.

 

If you refund (partially or fully) a payment for goods or services, there are no fees to make the refund, but the fees originally paid by you will not be returned. The buyer’s account will be credited with the full payment amount, we’ll retain the fees you paid, and the amount of the refunded payment will be deducted from your PayPal account.

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