Pitney Bowes: unjustified extra fees: huge scam: who will stop this scam?

This "third party" Pitney Bowes is running a disgusting scam on eBay! How can customers make ebay aware that this is a fraud ? This third party does not represent official customs an does not give US or Canadian customs any money, they put it all in their pockets. By using fraudulously the term "custom fees", they are not only lying to ebay buyers, but also to official authorities who are not getting these extra "custom fees". Sellers! Why do you make business with these people? they are stealing money from you and from your customers! If ebay cannot or will not take action, this fraud issue will be taken directly to the federal governments of both countries to unveil the scam. Enough is enough!

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Pitney Bowes: unjustified extra fees: huge scam: who will stop this scam?

I see...so you don't understand their point of view so it is ok to label them.

 

Message 41 of 213
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Pitney Bowes: unjustified extra fees: huge scam: who will stop this scam?

I dislike the word scam, but I sincerely believe that that GSP is one.

 
For a scam to be effective, it has to be legit some of the time.  That is, it can't scam 100% of the people 100% of the time.
 
It has to deliver now and then…………… just as the GSP apparently does.
I've been buying here for many many years, and with a few exceptions my transactions have gone smoothly.
 
There was no need for the GSP.
 
The question is:  What is the GSP giving it's customers in return for their money?
The GSP is making purchases more difficult on almost every level.
1) Shipping is more expensive.
2) Taxes are collected 100% of the time on items over $20.
3) Shipping time is longer.
4) Returns are difficult.
5) All other problems which may arise are more complicated as well.
6) There are added service charges.
7) Packages may be getting opened en route.
 
If I thought about I could probably add to that list.
 
So just what exactly is the service that buyers are paying P-B for?
 
 
Message 42 of 213
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Pitney Bowes: unjustified extra fees: huge scam: who will stop this scam?

Just because sellers are using the GSP when it's not the best choice for shipping internationally doesn't make it a "scam".

 

If a seller uses UPS Standard (ground) to ship an item to Canada and the buyer gets slugged with all manner of fees upon receipt, does it make it scam or just a poor choice by the seller?  I'd opt for the latter.

 

An eBay employee on the .com site's International Trading Board even went out of his way today to point out this nugget from the GSP information page:

 

http://pages.ebay.com/sellerinformation/shipping/globalshippingprogram/update_faqs.html#who-should-u...

 

Who should use the Global Shipping Program?

The Global Shipping Program is a great solution to streamline your operations if you’re currently selling internationally, your items have an average selling price of $50 or more, and you’re shipping parcels. It’s also the perfect way to get started selling globally regardless of the average selling price of your items.

I'd quibble a bit with that last sentence, but given how absolutely flummoxed some U.S. sellers seem to be about shipping internationally, I can see why it's being promoted that way.
 
Note that technically speaking, a First Class International item is not considered a "parcel" but a "packet" or "package".  This is an important distinction.
Message 43 of 213
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Pitney Bowes: unjustified extra fees: huge scam: who will stop this scam?

Surprisingly, "scam" is not defined in my trusted Collins English Dictionary.

 

Looking at online definition for "scam" none of them seem to apply to the service for a fee provided by Pitney Bowes

 

https://www.google.ca/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=scam+definition&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&gws_rd=cr&...

 

Basically, a "scam" is a dishonest scheme; a fraud.

 

Banks charge $40.00 or so when someone writes a cheque without funds in the account (NSF).  Would that be a scam?

Message 44 of 213
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Pitney Bowes: unjustified extra fees: huge scam: who will stop this scam?

When I bought items which included shipping by the GSP, no one had a gun to my had forcing me to push the button.

 

However, if I wanted the items.............. and I did............ then the only way to acquire them was by also purchasing something that I knew was very bad for me.

 

Calling the GSP a service is a misnomer.

 

It's a con: A scam............... An unnecessary and unwanted processing of parcels prior to delivery disguised as a service.

 

It's fooling some of you too.  Smiley Happy

 

Message 45 of 213
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Pitney Bowes: unjustified extra fees: huge scam: who will stop this scam?

There must be something about eBay buyers, perhaps they only buy on eBay and never anywhere else.

 

Try asking the Canadian customers of LL Bean, New Egg, Cabala's and numerous other major etailers who ship to Canada under the exact same terms as the eBay GSP system (ie: all duties and taxes paid up front).

 

I'd guess that many of them see it as a great convenience, no more going to the Post Office to pick-up packages, no more having someone knock on the door demanding payment, no more wondering what you will have to pay etc.

 

Of course these companies actually know what they are doing and I doubt any of them use Pitney-Bowes thus their buyers also get extremely fast delivery times.

 

 

 

 



"What else could I do? I had no trade so I became a peddler" - Lazarus Greenberg 1915
- answering Trolls is voluntary, my policy is not to participate.
Message 46 of 213
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Pitney Bowes: unjustified extra fees: huge scam: who will stop this scam?

Same thing has just happened to me. 

 

I spoke to HMRC who told me that I could expect to pay import VAT and a clearance fee - which I have done - in the UK- but no customs duty was due because the item didn't cos enough and excise duty is only payable on alcohol etc.

 

I paid Pitney Bowes $22.82 'import charges'  I also paid $23.90 P&P .  All this on a $75 item. 

 

HMRC advised me to report them to Trading Standards which I am in the process of doing.  I've also contacted BBC Watchdog - if enough people do this they might investigate.

Message 47 of 213
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Pitney Bowes: unjustified extra fees: huge scam: who will stop this scam?

When I search for your item on eBay.uk, I find:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-WESTERN-LEATHER-BELT-W-SILVER-BUCKLES-/181191460952?ViewItem=&item=1...

 

Both the shipping charge and the "import charge" are shown in the listing.  "import fee" include VAT which is payable at time of Customs clearance.

 

If you did not agree with the fees, why did you bid?

 

What is the problem?

 

 

Message 48 of 213
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Pitney Bowes: unjustified extra fees: huge scam: who will stop this scam?

While on eBay.uk, I checked "global shipping" and the system brings me back to .com:

 

http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/shipping-globally.html

 

During checkout, the buyer sees the final charges, including:

  • The item price

  • The shipping charges

  • The import charges

The shipping charges include any US shipping charges that you specify, as well as applicable international shipping, handling, and other fees.

The import charges include applicable customs duties, taxes, brokerage, and other fees.

In addition to the final charges, the buyer sees the amount paid to the seller and the amount paid to the global shipping provider. You receive the item price and the domestic shipping and handling amount that you specified directly from your buyer.

 

Quite frankly I fail to understand why Her Majesty Revenue & Customs (HMRC) would object to having VAT collected.  I suspect someone there was ill informed and Her Majesty wants the money!

Message 49 of 213
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Pitney Bowes: unjustified extra fees: huge scam: who will stop this scam?


@recped wrote:

 

Try asking the Canadian customers of LL Bean, New Egg, Cabala's and numerous other major etailers who ship to Canada under the exact same terms as the eBay GSP system (ie: all duties and taxes paid up front).

 

I'd guess that many of them see it as a great convenience, 

 

 

 


recped, I was curious to see if this was true as you've posted the same thing several times, and so I processed an item at one of the stores you suggested.

 

The reason they are doing  things this way is most likely because the items they are selling are also subject to duty, and not only tax.

 

Also note that they have free shipping, no brokerage fees, handling fees, or anything else.

 

In other words, the added cost to land an item is a fraction of the GSP.

 

The only added costs are tax and duty.  Nothing more, and so they are well aware that their customers would hit the road were they to start gouging them with GSP-type shipping costs.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Message 50 of 213
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Pitney Bowes: unjustified extra fees: huge scam: who will stop this scam?

I think recped was very clear in his message: a lot of the whining by some Canadian buyers is the result of lack of experience and knowledge in purchasing cross border other than on eBay.

 

Canadians who have purchased from LL Bean and other US retailers shipping to Canada on a tax prepaid basis do so for the quality of the products and service and convenience not to have to pay taxes/fees at time of delivery

 

For example, from LL Bean:

"By ordering goods from L.L.Bean, Inc., you authorize our Customs Broker to act as your agent to transact business with Canadian Border Service Agency (CBSA) to clear merchandise, pay duties and taxes, and to handle any merchandise returns and refund claims on your behalf. You further waive and transfer your right to receive the actual amount of refund of duties and taxes to our Customs Broker. All duty and tax paid will, in turn, be refunded to you directly by L.L.Bean, Inc. If any portion of your order is being shipped to an address outside of Canada, Canadian duties and taxes will not apply to that portion."

 

And that is basically whet Pitney Bowes does on behalf of American sellers using GSP

 

To suggest "most likely because the items they are selling are also subject to duty, and not only tax" proves recped was correct.  There is a lot of ignorance out there and assumptions made that have nothing to do with facts.

 

It does not change the fact that GSP is not suitable for most small transactions by most Canadian buyers.  However, it would be nice if posters would get their facts straight instead of assuming... assuming and assuming.

Message 51 of 213
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Pitney Bowes: unjustified extra fees: huge scam: who will stop this scam?


@i*m-still-here wrote:

@recped wrote:

 

Try asking the Canadian customers of LL Bean, New Egg, Cabala's and numerous other major etailers who ship to Canada under the exact same terms as the eBay GSP system (ie: all duties and taxes paid up front).

 

I'd guess that many of them see it as a great convenience, 

 

 

 


recped, I was curious to see if this was true as you've posted the same thing several times, and so I processed an item at one of the stores you suggested.

 

The reason they are doing  things this way is most likely because the items they are selling are also subject to duty, and not only tax.

 

Also note that they have free shipping, no brokerage fees, handling fees, or anything else.

 

In other words, the added cost to land an item is a fraction of the GSP.

 

The only added costs are tax and duty.  Nothing more, and so they are well aware that their customers would hit the road were they to start gouging them with GSP-type shipping costs.

 

 

 

 

 

 


It has nothing to do with Duty being applicable, of you imnport anything into Canada over the free limit it's subject to duty (unless exempt under NAFTA), who the shipper is makes no difference.

 

The brokerage fees and shipping are INCLUDED in the selling prices, you pay them just not as a seperate line item.

 

These companies operate in this manner vecause buyers like it, they like to know exactly what their complete total will be when they hit the submit button in checkout.

 

It also makes the whole return process much easierm these etailers all have local Canadian addresses for customer returns, buyers don;'t have to worry about recovering taxes they paid or Canada Post fees (incidently higher than what PB charges through GSP).

 

Most import of course, no involvement of Pitney-Bowes!

 

My main point is that GSP type system can and does work well and results in a high level of customer satisfaction if done properly.

 



"What else could I do? I had no trade so I became a peddler" - Lazarus Greenberg 1915
- answering Trolls is voluntary, my policy is not to participate.
Message 52 of 213
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Pitney Bowes: unjustified extra fees: huge scam: who will stop this scam?

recped, are you saying that the price of items is calibrated according to the country one lives in?

 

In other words, is the price for American buyers lower than it is for Canadian buyers as it would have to be if brokerage etc. fees are included for us but not US buyers?

 

 

Message 53 of 213
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Pitney Bowes: unjustified extra fees: huge scam: who will stop this scam?


@whateversnottakenalready wrote:

Same thing has just happened to me. 

 

I spoke to HMRC who told me that I could expect to pay import VAT and a clearance fee - which I have done - in the UK- but no customs duty was due because the item didn't cos enough and excise duty is only payable on alcohol etc.

 

I paid Pitney Bowes $22.82 'import charges'  I also paid $23.90 P&P .  All this on a $75 item. 

 

HMRC advised me to report them to Trading Standards which I am in the process of doing.  I've also contacted BBC Watchdog - if enough people do this they might investigate.


Are you saying that you paid PB import charges and also had to pay VAT and a clearance fee when the package reached the UK? If so, how much was the VAT and how much was the service charge in the UK?

Message 54 of 213
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Pitney Bowes: unjustified extra fees: huge scam: who will stop this scam?


@recped wrote:

@i*m-still-here wrote:

@recped wrote:

 

Try asking the Canadian customers of LL Bean, New Egg, Cabala's and numerous other major etailers who ship to Canada under the exact same terms as the eBay GSP system (ie: all duties and taxes paid up front).

 

I'd guess that many of them see it as a great convenience, 

 

 

 


recped, I was curious to see if this was true as you've posted the same thing several times, and so I processed an item at one of the stores you suggested.

 

The reason they are doing  things this way is most likely because the items they are selling are also subject to duty, and not only tax.

 

Also note that they have free shipping, no brokerage fees, handling fees, or anything else.

 

In other words, the added cost to land an item is a fraction of the GSP.

 

The only added costs are tax and duty.  Nothing more, and so they are well aware that their customers would hit the road were they to start gouging them with GSP-type shipping costs.

 

 

 

 

 

 


It has nothing to do with Duty being applicable, of you imnport anything into Canada over the free limit it's subject to duty (unless exempt under NAFTA), who the shipper is makes no difference.

 

The brokerage fees and shipping are INCLUDED in the selling prices, you pay them just not as a seperate line item.

 

 

 


recped, I'm still wondering what you're seeing that I'm missing.

 

When I checked this morning the item prices were the same for Canada and the States.

 

Where are the buried brokerage fees?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Message 55 of 213
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Pitney Bowes: unjustified extra fees: huge scam: who will stop this scam?

"Also note that they have free shipping, no brokerage fees, handling fees, or anything else."
Keep in mind that "Free Shipping" means "the cost of shipping(and anything else) is included in the asking price of the item".
This is why eBay is pushing Free Shipping. Not that it changes the cost of the item to the buyer, or the fees paid to eBay (they actually get less if Free Domestic Shipping is used, even if the item ships internationally) but because buyers love to think/pretend they are getting something free.
Message 56 of 213
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Pitney Bowes: unjustified extra fees: huge scam: who will stop this scam?

recped has brought up the fact that some American companies charge taxes upon purchase by way of justifying the way the GSP pre-clears items, but there is no comparison.

 

He has done this a number times and so I was curious and finally checked it out.

 

LLBead, for example, charges duty and taxes which amount to the cost of First Class shipping and nothing more.

 

For example, the cost to an American for a shirt is $50, and the cost to a Canadian for the sams shirt is $50 plus duty and tax.

 

Yes, the added costs are buried, but since U.S. and Canadian item costs are the same brokerage fees must amount to diddley-squat.

 

The way these companies pre-clear items (at least the one I checked out) is nothing like the way the GSP pre-clears eBay items and only supports the "GSP-scam" theory and not the other way around.

Message 57 of 213
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Pitney Bowes: unjustified extra fees: huge scam: who will stop this scam?

"recped has brought up the fact that some American companies charge taxes upon purchase by way of justifying the way the GSP pre-clears items,"

 

????

 

That is not the way I read the posts by recped.  That is not what he wrote and I do not think it is what he meant.  He is not "justigying" GSp in any way.

 

Rereading his posts leaves a pretty clear message.  I do not see why or how it is being misunderstood.

Message 58 of 213
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Pitney Bowes: unjustified extra fees: huge scam: who will stop this scam?

I should have been more precise in my original post.

 

recped has brought up the fact that some American companies charge taxes upon purchase by way of justifying the pre-clearance of items (which is what the GSP does), but be sure to note that there is no comparison.

 

recped is not justifying the GSP, he is saying the pre-clearing items makes sense and customers like it.

 

He has done this a number times and so I was curious and finally checked it out.

 

LLBean, for example, charges duty and taxes which amount to the cost of First Class shipping and nothing more.

 

For example, the cost to an American for a shirt is $50, and the cost to a Canadian for the same shirt is $50 plus duty and tax.

 

Yes, the added costs are buried, but since U.S. and Canadian item costs are the same brokerage fees must amount to diddley-squat.

 

Note that the way these companies pre-clear items (at least the one I checked out) is nothing like the way the GSP pre-clears eBay items and only supports the "GSP-scam" theory and not the other way around.

 

 

 

Message 59 of 213
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Pitney Bowes: unjustified extra fees: huge scam: who will stop this scam?


@i*m-still-here wrote:

 

Yes, the added costs are buried, but since U.S. and Canadian item costs are the same brokerage fees must amount to diddley-squat.


Customs-related charges with the GSP are also "diddley-squat".  Assuming 13% HST for all these items, I came up with the following "brokerage fees" for these items:

 

281163314090  Item price:  US$67.89, balance of import fees: US$3.88

 

141042248494  Item price:  US$35.00, balance of import fees:  US$6.24

 

181208414679  Item price:  US$119.00, balance of import fees:  US$4.33

 

310734161890  Item price:  US$139.95, balance of import fees:  US$4.63

 

Not a terribly scientific investigation, but in none of these cases is the amount owing above taxes more than what Canada Border Services/Canada Post would charge for an item sent through the mail.

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