Purchased label & insurance through eBay for Canada Post, item got lost and now no insurance payout

[envyemporium]

I sold and shipped an item worth over $1000 and purchased the shipping label with insurance for full coverage (total cost for the label was around $50 CAD for expedited + insurance) for Canada Post through eBay. The item got lost, and this was confirmed by Canada Post, so I refunded the buyer.

However, when I tried to make a claim with Canada Post they told me no insurance was purchased. This is strange because I had selected the insurance when buying the shipping label through eBay and I received an email confirming that I had, as it had the cost breakdown of the label purchase and insurance was listed there. This is the label I printed out and sent with the package.  After speaking to an eBay representative, they informed me that in my eBay invoice, the shipping cost was only around $22! which didnt make sense as the email which contained the shipping label said it was $50. Additionally, under 'My shipping label' section in the seller account, it also shows $50 for the the total cost of the label. 

I sent Canada Post's claim department all the screenshots and evidence I had which included the cost of the item, how much it sold, the shipping label and cost breakdown I received from eBay in my email. They informed me they could not do anything as in their system no insurance was purchased and that the issue was on eBays end as in their system this error is not possible. They also told me that for the tracking number on the shipping label my name was not even on it and that the sender was shown as 'eBay' which is highly irregular as they have not seen that before and that with all the cases they have dealt with through amazon,ebay, etc the sender name was the name of the client. This is an issue because even if Canada Post was to offer the insurance claim payout it would go to eBay and not me

I then tried to speak with eBay and explain to them what the Canada Post claims agent told me and was not given any help at all. I even had the number of the claims agent and had him willing to speak with eBay to confirm on their end what the situation was and an agent promised he would contact the Canada Post agent but he never did. I spoke with at least 4 different eBay customer service reps who all promised they would escalate this case and have it resolved or that a supervisor would call me back but I received no help or reply.

I've spent at least 8+ hours on the phone over the past 2+ months trying to resolve this issue, and for the most part Canada Post has been responsive and have actually escalated the case but eBay has done nothing to help and have outright lied to me on several occasions.

I attached a portion of the email I got from eBay which had the shipping label and cost

Is there anything I can do at this point?

[pjcdn2005]

tyler@ebay 

I've read about similar situations with ebay labels and insurance in the US and now in Canada.  With MP, sellers are having problems collecting USPS and Canada Post insurance.  In this case it sounds as if the insurance info may not have been passed on to CP.   In the US situations  the sellers were told by USPS  that there was no proof of value for the item even when an invoice was shown so their claims were denied.  The impression that I got was that since ebay is now the purchaser on record, anything that the seller shows is not going to be approved.   Perhaps you know more about this and if it is being looked into?

[byto253]

Does the transaction detail show anywhere that insurance was being purchased?  If it does then Ebay is clearly liable as it is their system and responsibility as the agent to ensure that insurance was purchased.  If you do have this, then I would consider small claims court.   In general courts have little sympathy for large sophisticated organizations that do not uphold their responsibilities for systems and processes that they set up.  

[mr.special-editions]

@envyemporium 

I'm sorry to hear what happened to you.  I had a very similar experience earlier this year, around the same value and it was all due to eBay labels.  I wrote it off as a loss because the time and stress trying to resolve it was not worth it.  I understand how frustrating this is and I will advise you the best I can.

When you purchased the eBay label you should have an email from eBay that indicates you selected insurance and due to the item being over $750 to qualify for eBay's seller protection you need to select signature (if the carrier does not capture the signature that's ok, eBay is supposed to recognize that as something out of your control)  What I noticed with eBay labels from March into April is my official eBay label receipts and the actual amount eBay charged me was almost always less than the receipt indicated (I was charged significantly less in many cases)  When I did the math, it was clear I was not being charged for insurance nor signatures.  You can confirm that with Canada Post by providing your tracking, appears you have done that.

I went back to my own solutions for small business account and use Canada Post directly through their snap ship.  I don't ever plan to use eBay labels again.   Another issue is the shipping account eBay set up for you is not actually your own account with CP.  That makes insurance claims that are hard enough to resolve almost impossible.

If Canada Post says they cannot see the extra insurance you paid for, then at best you will get back $100 + original shipping if you used Expedited, Xpress Post or Priority.

You can report this to the Canadian Anti-Fraud Centre (CAFC) you are allowed to report almost anything even if you only suspect something is off.  Call them and explain everything you said above, they will take your report give you a reference number and an email so you can submit all your documentation to them.  Unfortunately, this will not get your money back however when this happens, the more reports they get eventually action may be taken meaning police or even RCMP.  You can also file a police report with your local police department I would do this after your CAFC report (provide them your CAFC reference) your local police will provide you with your own report number and you can notify eBay with that.  There are other options however they would be for items valued at least $3000 and up.  

You have every right to continue to discuss this with eBay, I would suggest using chat as well that way you have transcripts to back you up.  Remember to always be polite, do not lash out in frustration under any circumstance as that will guarantee you do not get any form of reimbursement.

I have attached the eBay labels email receipt for the item I sold and was unable to claim insurance through Canada Post (eBay labels did not capture it but you will see on the receipt I selected it and Canada Post was confused about the account) I was disqualified for eBay sellers protection because the tracking and label did not have signature (again I selected it)

Good luck and I hope you at least get some form of compensation.  

[envyemporium]

Yes, the email that ebay sent me with the shipping label has these details which is part of the image I shared in the post. Additionally it does show on my shipping labels the total shipping amount which matches that of the email

[envyemporium]

wow I can't believe they get away with this! This is clearly an issue that needs to be resolved. There is no way I'm losing $1000+ I simply cannot afford to.

Did you try going to a small claims court?

[mr.special-editions]

 Just keep doing what you are doing.  Document everything, keep notes and follow up with the CAFC (I did this with my situation and one other this year.  At first I was reluctant to call, don't be they are there to help it's there job.  You can't get into any trouble for contacting them it's your right to do so, you can even contact them if you know someone victim to fraud) Tell them you’re calling because you feel you are a victim of fraud, explain exactly what you described above and you just want to report it and have it put on record and then take whatever advice they may give you (More sellers need to report fraud that happens to them, if its the buyer, eBay whoever reporting it means at least it may help another honest seller down the road and or possibly force changes to protect us).  Continue to follow up with eBay in a respectful way.

I can't advise you on small courts, you would need professional legal advice on that.  I believe there's a way you can speak with a Paralegal for free 30-60 minutes.  If you can find out if that's possible then take advantage of that they will have the advice you need.

The only other thing I can think of is if you get exhausted trying with eBay, you can try reaching out to some lawyers.  There's a chance someone may hear you out, lawyers do probono work and may be willing to assist you.

For business advice only sell products you can afford to lose on and make sure the items you sell have enough profit to cover you if and when this happens (it happens to all sellers) The time spent trying to recover the loss is sometimes better spent trying to make up the loss. 

***I'd like to point out at the very least you should hold your head high. The steps you took from taking care of your customer, to your follow up with Canada Post and posting here for help should be commended. Be proud of yourself for handling the situation in a very professional and respectful manner. This is how sellers should go about dealing with these issues.***

I support you, keep us posted.

[byto253]

LOL. I like the Canadian Anti-Fraud Centre (CAFC) idea.  I would first go through the contact process with Ebay for a bit so that when you contact them you have a clear track record of their non or inadequate response. Email at Tyler as well, the more efforts the better to shake this past the basic CSR level.

Same with small claims, build up the record of trying to work with Ebay and not getting anywhere so you can clearly demonstrate you have done everything reasonable, and more, to have the situation rectified.  That is very powerful in making a claim as it shows an action was not taken lightly.  Filing for small claims initially is an online process and meant to be accessible.   If you can get some free para-legal time, that is great but you do not need to have a lawyer to make a claim.   

My understanding of what it going on is:

- Followed Ebay's process for Ebay buying shipping labels;

- Remitted funds to Ebay for both postage label and insurance as per their process (documented);

- Canada Post confirmed that the package was lost (documented? - even if a note of the time of call and who you were speaking with);

- Canada Post has confirmed that Ebay did not purchase insurance and the shipment is showing on their system as from Ebay (documented? - even if a note of the time of call and who you were speaking with);

- Ebay did not fulfill their obligation to buy insurance and is responsible for the loss.

- Request reimbursement from Ebay. 

P.S.  I am not seeing the image in the first post. 

[intimewithmusic]

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@envyemporium wrote:

I sold and shipped an item worth over $1000 and purchased the shipping label with insurance for full coverage (total cost for the label was around $50 CAD for expedited + insurance) for Canada Post through eBay. The item got lost, and this was confirmed by Canada Post, so I refunded the buyer.

However, when I tried to make a claim with Canada Post they told me no insurance was purchased. This is strange because I had selected the insurance when buying the shipping label through eBay and I received an email confirming that I had, as it had the cost breakdown of the label purchase and insurance was listed there. This is the label I printed out and sent with the package.  After speaking to an eBay representative, they informed me that in my eBay invoice, the shipping cost was only around $22! which didnt make sense as the email which contained the shipping label said it was $50. Additionally, under 'My shipping label' section in the seller account, it also shows $50 for the the total cost of the label. 

I sent Canada Post's claim department all the screenshots and evidence I had which included the cost of the item, how much it sold, the shipping label and cost breakdown I received from eBay in my email. They informed me they could not do anything as in their system no insurance was purchased and that the issue was on eBays end as in their system this error is not possible. They also told me that for the tracking number on the shipping label my name was not even on it and that the sender was shown as 'eBay' which is highly irregular as they have not seen that before and that with all the cases they have dealt with through amazon,ebay, etc the sender name was the name of the client. This is an issue because even if Canada Post was to offer the insurance claim payout it would go to eBay and not me

I then tried to speak with eBay and explain to them what the Canada Post claims agent told me and was not given any help at all. I even had the number of the claims agent and had him willing to speak with eBay to confirm on their end what the situation was and an agent promised he would contact the Canada Post agent but he never did. I spoke with at least 4 different eBay customer service reps who all promised they would escalate this case and have it resolved or that a supervisor would call me back but I received no help or reply.

I've spent at least 8+ hours on the phone over the past 2+ months trying to resolve this issue, and for the most part Canada Post has been responsive and have actually escalated the case but eBay has done nothing to help and have outright lied to me on several occasions.

I attached a portion of the email I got from eBay which had the shipping label and cost

Is there anything I can do at this point?

---

______________________________________________________________________________________
Thank you for posting this.  I feel your pain..ouch.. 

This is for anyone shipping items over $100. I hope these ideas help someone else before they ship the item. 

I haven't read the comments below but  You paid Ebay.  Ebay took your money. As they say "The buck stops there". 

1. Get proof of how much you paid and what you paid for.  The forms we fill out when filing shipping info for labels are not only difficult  but label vendors keep changing the form flows. You may think you hit "SAVE" they decide to call it "ACCEPT".  So you hit "ACCEPT" and then a window pops open...."Are You Sure"? Sometimes the Save, Accept or "Are You Sure" are not even visible. They are below screen level and you have to scroll down.  Some go to another screen "Please choose method of payment"....

Label Form Time Outs

Unless you want your item stolen it's usually a bad idea to ship an item using the Ebay Title for a contents description. Trying to change the item title on a label purchase form can be extremely difficult and even impossible.  Sometimes it's easier to delete all of the info and relist it manually but beware!  When doing that you can accidentally delete stuff you filled in like "Add Insurance". 

Make sure when you purchased the label and paid for additional insurance you get what you paid for.  Most label formats ask you when you buy additional insurance what the categtory of the item is.

EG: 

 1. Ebay Title "Gibson Flying V Guitar used by Van Halen"

 2. Edit the description of contents for the label "Used Guitar"

 3.  Full value of item $1000 Purchase additional Insurance? (label includes $100 coverage)  Add $900 @ 2.25/$100 = $20.25

4.   For insurance purposes select the category of the item [Musical Instruments] If you didn't get asked this ypu probably didn't buy insurance or deleted the purchase.  

Finally  SAVE  and VERIFY that everything was registered....

   At this stage System gliches tend to occur. Examples include internet failure, software failure, your form timed out, your Ram or cache jammed up, my, I mean your enter key has a potato chip stuck in it, brief power failure between you and the vendor, and my favourite, human error.  Before you ship the item you must verify everything including the insurance and any special added features you chose were actually registered. You must have a receipt or the documentation added to your business account. If you don't then it hurts, becasue it takes weeks to get your money back but CANCEL (VOID) THE LABEL and call the vendor. Basically start over. 

Remedy

For items over $100 I prefer Snap Ship or Shippo who uses 3rd party insurance that I hear good things about. It requires you to make 2 insurance claims, one for $100 with CP and the rest with Shipsurance or whoever they are using. Having to make 2 claims that actaully pay off is better than making 1 claim that gets flushed down the toilet.  They both give you a receipt at the time of purchase confirming exactly what you paid for.  Extra insurance purchased on Shippo shows up on your account under "Orders". It does not show up on the Canada Post receipt you print out but it is registered at the time of purchase. (real time).  With Snap ship it shows up on the receipt. 

EASIER WAY

Pack the item. Do not print the label.    Take your Canada Post Venture card and the item to your nearest Canada Post outlet (or whatever courier you are using).  Have THEM print the label  for you,  Get a copy of it on your phone. Get a receipt

I've keep saying this  and hear it is again, (TO eBAY) "UNLESS THE LABEL VENDOR GIVES YOU A RECEIPT AT THE MOMENT OF PURCHASE SHOWING EXACTLY WHAT YOU PAID FOR DO NOT BUY FROM THEM. GO SOMEWHERE ELSE." 

I'm not saying Snap Ship and Shippo don't get complaints. I seem to find positive CURRENT feedback for them.  I don't listen to negative feedback on forums like this. They oftent come from someone who had an issue 3 years ago or someone who "knows someone who had a problem." Negative feedback about shipping services tends to get repeated for years.  You have to choose somebody. Shipping is not politics. You actually have to pick somebody.  Pick one that gives good customer service even if it costs a few bucks extra.   

ITWM

[mr.special-editions]

The seller took a very large loss and based on their post they have done an excellent job in trying to resolve it.  eBay labels is not capturing the insurance, it has nothing to do with ram or a potato PC and mis clicking.

Here's a possibility of why this might be happening (eBay labels and Canada Post not working correctly for insurance) 

When you use Canada Post Snap Ship, if you add insurance that amounts to $200 and over it automatically selects 'signature' (it greys out the signature option, you cannot take it off) this is not new, it was always this way and how I know is because I've used Snap Ship a lot and pre-covid you had to pay for signature, currently it's free.  An example if I sold an item and the amount was $230, I would just put in $199.99 as my insured value, as I may not want to pay the extra $2.25 for $30 nor the $1.75 signature therefore it would not trigger the signature requirement.  

See photos attached as examples

[intimewithmusic]

Coincidental CASE & POINT regarding customer service with Shippo

As soon as I left my forum post above I went to Shippo to print a label...

I filled out the entire form and when I got to "Choose a Service" none of the Canada Post options appeared. 

I checked the info that was transfered by Ebay and the info I entered. Everything good. No Canada Post. 

I messaged Support in the chat box. The rep gave me incorrect info.

While I was waiting I went to Snap Ship and printed the label and uploaded the tracking number to Ebay. The package was shipped........ then alon g came Ralph

   So the problem was that Ebay sent the address to Shippo and it had a hyphen in the postal code. s4p-1b7.

That was all it took to eliminate Canada Post from the shipping options. The 1st rep was obviously inexperienced. She said stuff that was irrelevant to the fix. "Oh I see, okay that is because you are shipping through ebay. Our Canada Post Master account will not work with Ebay. The terms of that agreement is changing very soon."    Huh? ...Oh...k.. 

The problem didn't occur when I was purchasing the label from Canada Post because their system uses "Autoform". It inserts it's own corrected postal code. 

Although Shippo didn't vend the label they solved the problem caused by Ebay within 36 minutes. No phone call was required on my part.  I think that's good customer service!

I never used to have address issues with Ebay. This is the 2nd one in a month. The other was too many characters in the address line. Why isn't Ebay catching this when the buyer registers their address? 

[mr.special-editions]

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@intimewithmusic wrote:

   So the problem was that Ebay sent the address to Shippo and it had a hyphen in the postal code. s4p-1b7.

The problem didn't occur when I was purchasing the label from Canada Post because their system uses "Autoform". It inserts it's own corrected postal code. 

---

You need to correct an issue like that if you use Shippo, you just remove the dash.  Postal codes can be in XXX XXX or XXXXXX format

Becareful with Autoform via Snap Ship, it can change things such as the city which could possibly cause you a headache.  For example if a buyer puts in Toronto and Canada Posts auto-fill changes it to Etobicoke which is part of Toronto.  It's best practise to change it back to what the buyer provided, Toronto.    

[intimewithmusic]

Hi 

  First of all I said clearly the tips I was giving were to help others avoid what taslim604 is having to go through. I was not explaining  what happened to taslim604. As he says this is what this problem has put him through"

Quote "I've spent at least 8+ hours on the phone over the past 2+ months trying to resolve this issue, and for the most part Canada Post has been responsive and have actually escalated the case but eBay has done nothing to help and have outright lied to me on several occasions."

His plight is not over. Personally I think he's done what he can do so far. If he persists I think he will likely be reimbursed. The problem is we're talking about a reimbursement of $1000 plus shipping plus reversal of dings to his account. He may have to keep pulling teeth for awhile. 

There are a lot of reasons a label purchase goes sideways. I did not say that is what happened in taslim604's case. I said the info may help someone else navigate the form filling process properly before they buy a label and ship the item out. 

No matter who you choose to buy the label from do not ship your item without confirming the label includes all necessary features AND you have a proper receipt for them which is given in real time at the time of purchase.  

This simple step may save you from taslim604s agaony. 

  I stand by what I said. 

[intimewithmusic]

With all due respect here are two words why I can't agree with your advice to go ahead and unilaterally modify an address supplied to a Seller by Ebay even in a small way;

Seller Protection

A few weeks ago something similar happened with an expensive order I had going to Australia. The shipping was also expensive. The address Ebay provided would not work to generate a label. Because the item was expensive I called Ebay. It appeared to me that either it was a scam attempt or the buyer had accidentally cut and paste a word into their address that wasn't acutally part of the address. When I tried to print the label the error message was "Too Many Characters in the Address".  Now again, it was Ebay that provided the address in the first place.  Here is what the Ebay CSR said;

  I agree that it looks like the buyer has made a mistake in provide us with a correct address. she agreed that it appeared there was one extra word. so I asked her " should I go ahead and delete the word so I can print the label. She said,

"You are at liberty to do that however , if you change an address we have provided you, and the shipment is damaged or goes missing we can't promise you Seller Protection. 

I don't recommend any seller take it upon themselves to correct a mistake in an address. Here is how we fixed it;

I suggested toher that I contact the buyer through Ebay messaging first and ask for his permission to modify his address. She said yes do that. Then Ebay has a record of the buyer being in agreement with the fix you make.  I did that. No issues. He bought something else a week later. 

I understand Mr.specialedition that a hyphen in a postal code may be splitting hairs however, most of the counter defenses and denials I've read about recently made to Sellers  seem to be based on a minor technicality. 

I hope that taslim604 will let us know what happens in the end. I hope his insurance is backed up and he gets paid.  for the rest of us who ship high value items we need to learn from these situations. 

ITWM

[intimewithmusic]

It's my understanding Canada Post, USPS and others are still charging for signature confirmation when the fee isn't free. It's free during covid because they are not getting signatures even though you paid for one. Tyler has stated in order to receive Seller Protection, even though you won't get a signature, pay fo it anyway. That way the "excersise" of going through that hoop will qualify you for SP. Not sure if the link to that thread will be flagged for html but here it is;

https://community.ebay.ca/t5/Seller-Central/Covid-CP-still-not-doing-signature-confirmation-but-USPS...

ITWM

[pjcdn2005]

Removing a hyphen does not affect seller protection. That is simply correcting the format, it's not changing an address.  

[mr.special-editions]

Removing the dash on a postal code in Canada will not in anyway comprise your sellers protection in regards to shipping to the address provided. eBay didn't send the postal code to Shippo that way, your buyer put it in that way when they gave their shipping information to eBay (you can check on your sales record page) Having Shippo correct it is no different then you correcting it. If you want to be 100% safe you could inform your buyer and inconvenience them by cancelling, refunding then asking them to repurchase and correct the dash in their postal code. For me all I see is creating a problem for your buyer out of nothing. If they were missing information such as a street address (I've seen those areas blank before) therefore taking such action would be advised.

Let's get back to helping @envyemporium  This is an important thread. taslim604 came to the forums with a problem, he has gone about trying to resolve it in a very professional and respectful manner. He clearly explained the issue which is with eBay labels not capturing the insurance, this is not a one time issue many other sellers using it are running into the same problem or will if eBay doesn't correct it. I can personally confirm that the $2400 in shipping I spent March-April 2021 ALL trackings where I purchased insurance, eBay did not capture it and Canada Post only saw I had the free minimum of $100 insurance. Ok great I saved money because I was undercharged by eBay but it could of cost me A LOT of money if I had to claim insurance through CP.  That is what has happened to the OP and eBay is at fault.

[intimewithmusic]

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@pjcdn2005 wrote:

Removing a hyphen does not affect seller protection. That is simply correcting the format, it's not changing an address.  

---

Hi. 

There is more going on here than a "hyphen". Poor Seller customer service, not poor Ebay customer service, and the fact Ebay is putting Sellers at risk by not verifying shipping addresses.

This isn't just a problem for the Seller. It's a problem for the Buyer and the next Seller.   Fine, just look after yourself. Don't bother to contact them. Leave their shipping address incorrect in the system waiting to jeopardize their next purchase.

You may cause "Lotz", "Mrspecialeditions" or possibly and unfortunately "reallynicestamps" to have the same time wasting problem. Now they have to waste their time troubleshooting another failed label. You got what you want so it's OK..unless you made a mistake editing Ebay's data and lost your SP but it's just a hy-phen. To me that sounds like poor customer service for your buyer and a grave disservice to the next Seller. 

   At the same time we're hearing complaints about Ebay's poor customer service when in fact most Ebay CSRs are knowledgeable, polite and helpful to get your problem fixed. It is not their fault Ebay is not verifying these addresses. Most companies immediately verify email address by sending a follow up email.  Ebay is not verifying shipping addresses.  Who is the 1st to find out a buyer has a wacky addy?  You.

If the buyer made a mistake entering their postal, area code or zip code it's possible something else is wrong with the address.  This tends to happen more with overseas buyers so if you ship solely domestic or to the USA you won't run into as many wacky addys.  When I contacted my Australian customer he realized he duplicated the mistake on numerous selling platforms.  He was grateful and made a $280 purchase one week later. 

Fine, just look after yourself. Don't bother to contact them. Leave their shipping address incorrect in the system waiting to jeopardize their next purchase.  Poor service leaves money on the table. 

IT

PS. It's frightening one of the largest high tech internet platforms on the planet includes a Canadian postal code entry field that accepts 7 characters. 

[richardcm]

Postal Code was designed as a 7 alphanumeric field with space required. CP site will correct. eBay site programming is incompetent always. Code is always based on USA site and other countries made to fit but not work properly.

[intimewithmusic]

 I thought the Zipcode would be the excuse. It's none the less shocking that a company claiming to be a professional vendor of Canadian shipping labels wouldn't squeeze out that gap. Everyone else has. Even the specific label vendors except UPS won't allow it. That's why UPS comes up as the only vendor option if Shippo is forwarded the faulty code from Ebay. Smart on their part.