02-08-2020 09:59 AM
02-08-2020 11:27 AM - edited 02-08-2020 11:29 AM
This is nothing to do with ebay, it is to do with how the State sees it. If it is based on the shipping address, it is the buyer's problem to do the work to recover the $$$ acquired by the state when it shouldn't have been.
For Canadian snowbird customers, if we're shipping to their Canadian address, they pay HST/GST, if they're in Florida or Arizona, they don't pay taxes because we are shipping to an out of country address, it doesn't matter what country they are a citizen of.
My point is the same thing applies to our Canadian taxes, which are address based. If someone is using a freight forwarder based in Canada, we have to charge them taxes because the shipping address is in Canada, again it doesn't matter where they actually live. So the Japan based person would have to pay the relevant Canadian taxes if their freight forwarder was based somewhere here in Canada because we are shipping to a Canadian address.
02-08-2020 11:43 AM
Buyer's choice to use a forwarder not eBay's. Mail forwarders can lobby their State governments to allow exemptions for their clients.
The buyer can switch to a mail forwarder in a different state that doesn't charge the internet tax or to one where they can get a tax exemption.
02-08-2020 12:57 PM
@ricarmic wrote:This is nothing to do with ebay, it is to do with how the State sees it. If it is based on the shipping address, it is the buyer's problem to do the work to recover the $$$ acquired by the state when it shouldn't have been.
02-08-2020 01:16 PM - edited 02-08-2020 01:17 PM
@ricarmic wrote:it is based on the shipping address,
For Canadian snowbird customers, if we're shipping to their Canadian address, they pay HST/GST, if they're in Florida or Arizona, they don't pay taxes because we are shipping to an out of country address, it doesn't matter what country they are a citizen of.
02-08-2020 01:35 PM
02-08-2020 02:35 PM - edited 02-08-2020 02:37 PM
@gwrocen wrote:
@ricarmic wrote:it is based on the shipping address,
For Canadian snowbird customers, if we're shipping to their Canadian address, they pay HST/GST, if they're in Florida or Arizona, they don't pay taxes because we are shipping to an out of country address, it doesn't matter what country they are a citizen of.I don’t quite follow this.I understand that if a Canadian is in Florida or Arizona they do not paythe Canadian tax because you are shipping out of the country.However, by the same way foreigners are required to pay the state tax basedon where the shipping address is in a US state, the Canadians must have to paythe Florida or Arizona state taxes since that is where their shipping address is.Is that correct? And if it isn’t, why would the Canadian be exempt and the Japanese isn’t?How would the Canadian get out of paying the Florida or Arizona state tax?The Japanese is registered with eBay as a resident of Japan with a shipping address in California and the Canadian is registered with eBay as a resident of Canada with a shipping address in Florida or Arizona.The Canadian buyer does not have to pay state taxes and yet the Japanese does?
Yes if the Canadian snowbird resides in California, then yes they would also be paying the Californian tax. I guess my example was confusing because I was only speaking to the Canadian tax perspective. Here it is again, hopefully more clear (Note that I've picked a state that charges tax, I don't think FL or AZ are yet).
A Canadian:
-In summer lives in Ontario and I ship to the ON address. Buyer pays 13% HST to Canadian governement via me.
In winter lives in California and I ship to the CA(lifornia) address. Buyer pays ?% taxes to CA governement via Ebay.
A Japanese buyer:
-uses a freight forwarding company in Ontario and I ship to the ON address. Buyer pays HST 13% taxes to Canadian government via me.
OR
-uses a freight forwarding company in California and I ship to the CA address. Buyer pays ?% taxes to state government.
My point was that the situation at hand already existed in our world regarding Canadian taxes, the US states are just the latest area to employ it....and neither of them have anything at all to do with eBay, eBay is stuck in this situation (which I bet has cost them millions in application development work to implement) and I bet they hate it as much if not more than us!
02-08-2020 05:40 PM
Hi,
Look you paypal fee and you will see paypal take % on taxe on each transaction .
Seller waste maney each time , it not just a problem for buyer !!!
02-08-2020 05:50 PM - edited 02-08-2020 05:51 PM
Yes however this was always true when we sold something to Canada.
If I sell something to a Canadian, I'm paying the PAYPAL fee on the item, shipping and taxes, same as now is the case for many of the folks in the USA....
02-08-2020 06:07 PM
02-08-2020 06:33 PM
If you're really concerned about "windfalls" to state treasuries. . .
https://www.salestaxinstitute.com/sales_tax_faqs/foreign_visitor_sales_tax_refund
02-08-2020 09:50 PM
Yes, that eBay sellers are paying 3.4% of US Internet Sales Taxes to Paypal has been discussed here on the Canada Seller Board too.
We actually pay more in PP fees on the IST than American sellers, because PP charges higher fees on non-domestic payments.
It is my personal conspiracy theory, that eBay is using this as a stick to push sellers into using their Managed Payments system, which they intend to replace PP with in a year or so.
MP is more expensive that PP, because they charge the 30c non-refundable fee on every single transaction, not on every payment as PP does.
That is, if you buy 10 items at $10 each for a total of $100, PP would charge the seller 30c plus a (domestic) fee of 2.9%, totalling $2.90+.30= $3.10
Managed Payments would charge you 10x30c = $3.00 plus $2.90= $5.90.
It is of course equally likely that this was an unintended consequence that happens to benefit eBay, and which they have chosen to accept because, Hey! Free Money!
02-09-2020 01:00 AM - edited 02-09-2020 01:05 AM
My point was that the situation at hand already existed in our world regarding Canadian taxes, the US states are just the latest area to employ it....and neither of them have anything at all to do with eBay, eBay is stuck in this situation (which I bet has cost them millions in application development work to implement) and I bet they hate it as much if not more than us!
I don't think eBay is hurting even if they spent "millions" to implement.
The USA meaning of one billion is a thousand million, or one followed by nine zeroes (1,000,000,000).
https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/EBAY/ebay/net-worth
How much a company is worth is typically represented by its market capitalization, or the current stock price multiplied by the number of shares outstanding. eBay net worth as of February 07, 2020 is $30.25B.
02-09-2020 09:12 AM
02-09-2020 02:09 PM - edited 02-09-2020 02:15 PM
@ricarmic wrote:
Unfortunately though what happens is the company sets aside so much $$ each year for "fixing" software applications and "development" of software applications.
The development piece is the piece we hope implements changes that benefit us or the buyers. It can also include "fixes" that take a lot of $$$ to implement and can be prioritized/deferred.
When some unavoidable ie prioritized large "problem" like implementing the IST comes in, it will pull $$$ away from the development side, so stuff they wanted to do gets diverted.
I think it is a bigger problem for them than most situations because I think the states have a lot of different rules from each other, it is almost like up to 50 different "countries" implementing it....
02-09-2020 03:36 PM
@gwrocen wrote:The income generated each year from eBay fees is in the tens of billions.
No "s" required.
eBay revenue (from all sources not just seller fees):
2019 - 10.8 billion
2018 - 10.7 billion
2017 - 9.9 billion
2016 - 9.3 billion
before then PayPal was part of the equation.
Sale of StubHub by eBay will reduce revenue in 2020 by over 10%
Another interesting stat:
2019 sales to the USA by ebay sellers is down 6.3% with over half that drop blamed on the internet sales tax rollout reducing buying power.
Number of active eBay Buyers in 2019: 183 million (2018 there were 179 million)
-..-
02-09-2020 05:09 PM
@ypdc_dennis wrote:
No "s" required.
eBay revenue (from all sources not just seller fees):
2019 - 10.8 billion
2018 - 10.7 billion
2017 - 9.9 billion
2016 - 9.3 billion
before then PayPal was part of the equation.
Sale of StubHub by eBay will reduce revenue in 2020 by over 10%
Another interesting stat:
2019 sales to the USA by ebay sellers is down 6.3% with over half that drop blamed on the internet sales tax rollout reducing buying power.
Number of active eBay Buyers in 2019: 183 million (2018 there were 179 million)
Thanks for posting that interesting data.
https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/EBAY/ebay/net-worth
But more interesting was that in 2015 eBay's net worth
was over $80billion (80,000,000,000) before eBay got rid of PayPal.
Prior to that from early 2011 to 2014 eBay's net worth fluctuated
between $37B and $76B.
Even eBay makes mistakes when trying to buy into the tech-driven future.
In September 2005 they paid $2.6 billion for Skype, thinking perhaps
that telephony had something to do with online auctions.
Four years later, (2009) they sold Skype for $1.9 billion."
Must depend on who is in charge and how business savvy the CEO and CFO are.
02-10-2020 08:17 AM - edited 02-10-2020 08:18 AM
@ricarmic wrote:
Unfortunately though what happens is the company sets aside so much $$ each year for "fixing" software applications and "development" of software applications. Generally because it affects the bottom line, this budget is not exceeded, although for the IST maybe it was, it would likely be noted on the financial statements if it was.
@gwrocen wrote:
Even eBay makes mistakes when trying to buy into the tech-driven future. In September 2005 they paid $2.6 billion for Skype, thinking perhaps that telephony had something to do with online auctions. Four years later, (2009) they sold Skype for $1.9 billion."Must depend on who is in charge and how business savvy the CEO and CFO are.
I guess the point I was trying to make with the above was that it looks like eBay can afford to lose $700,000,000.00 (seven hundred million) because of poor business decisions but they cannot afford to shoulder the cost of collecting the state tax so they immediately download that expense of PayPal fees onto the backs of all sellers worldwide.
02-10-2020 10:40 AM
That's about the how of it all...
eBay doesn't like to sweat the small stuff, which is why eBay is in such a mess...eBay never deals with the small stuff...
02-10-2020 02:28 PM