Unexpected returns from the EU

Hi, I got 3 returns from the EU within 1 month only.  I contacted the buyers, they had no idea the package reached their postal offices.  All of the packages (from 3 different countries!) were marked as "not claimed". Anyone had a similar problem recently? 

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Unexpected returns from the EU

Which Countries? 

 

They each have a different system...

Message 2 of 53
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Unexpected returns from the EU

It's exactly what I mean - different systems, identical problem. The countries are Denmark, Netherlands and Poland.  

Message 3 of 53
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Unexpected returns from the EU

Technically you are not required to refund anything on an Undeliverable shipment.

In Real Life of course,  you may or may not want to refund your shipping costs.

 

https://www.ebay.ca/help/policies/ebay-money-back-guarantee-policy/ebay-money-back-guarantee-policy?...

Message 4 of 53
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Unexpected returns from the EU

And these messages: "I'm very much surprised to hear that. I'm not aware of any PostNL attempt to deliver the package. Is it technically possible to re-ship the package for free?". Sure, no problem, because the shipping is free here, in Canada, right?  

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Unexpected returns from the EU


@reallynicestamps wrote:

 

In Real Life of course,  you may or may not want to refund your shipping costs.


I re-ship for "free". The returns always happened, but there was no problem with 1 package a year, but 3 in one month only? The last package had a note "a notice left, but the recipient never claimed the package".  

 

 

Message 6 of 53
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Unexpected returns from the EU

I would refund an amount minus all costs, technically you are not requred to refund any amount and if they are asking you if you can re-ship for FREE...

 

...get out while the going is good.

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Unexpected returns from the EU

marnotom!
Community Member

Were these items sent as untracked or tracked small packets?

Message 8 of 53
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Unexpected returns from the EU

All by CP SP, not tracked. What's strange, all 3 were shipped in the first week of January!  All reached their destination (local postal office) and all returned as "unclaimed". 

 

I had many returns in the past (some were returne 1.5 year after I shipped them), some were "funny" (??): a Japanese customer insisted I write his name in Hebrew. The Japanese post returned because of an "unknown recipient". Another customer from Manhattan provided an address like "a nice old house with blue door, next to X intersection". Return: "not recognized as a valid postal address". Etc, etc .....    

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Unexpected returns from the EU

marnotom!
Community Member

I wonder if the HS code, etc. for these items didn't transmit properly and customs in these countries was left wondering how to handle the items.  Maybe the recipients received notice that they were to pay VAT for the items and, thinking that it wasn't the items you shipped out, ignored the notice.

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Unexpected returns from the EU

Yep, I am thinking this is a VAT thing also, they got notified about the Taxes and did not claim the package, this is actually a common thing in the UK on packages going inbound...

 

...there are still some Buyers who do not get why they should pay VAT/TAX.

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Unexpected returns from the EU


@brettjet38 wrote:

 

...there are still some Buyers who do not get why they should pay VAT/TAX.


Well, if they paid VAT at Checkout, I can see why they'd be miffed about having to pay it again.

Message 12 of 53
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Unexpected returns from the EU


@marnotom! wrote:

@brettjet38 wrote:

 

...there are still some Buyers who do not get why they should pay VAT/TAX.


Well, if they paid VAT at Checkout, I can see why they'd be miffed about having to pay it again.


@marnotom! 

One of the requirements (it's listed on many of the Intl websites like Royal Mail etc) is a VALID email addy and land/cell number. Not all numbers in eBay are valid. If there is no way for the postal service/customs to contact the customer there have been cases where items get door tagged once and if not picked up (for whatever reason) they are just returned. Not all buyers check their eBay mail religiously so they may be missing the contact from the postal service. The gobblegook email does not always get ported to the customs paperwork. Why it is critical in the body of the bill to note the customs was collected in advance by eBay with the amount. Proof would be attaching the itemized packslip to the customs documents(highlighting helps). 

 

If customs can't see proof VAT was collected or customer can't prove they just re-bill.

 

-Lotz

Message 13 of 53
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Unexpected returns from the EU

The last one from Poland had a label indicating the recipient has to pay duty - so maybe it happened as you suggest. Will wait until the buyer contacts me (I shipped the item 3 months ago!). 

Message 14 of 53
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Unexpected returns from the EU

I've been pasting any VAT (or other) reference numbers into the second line of the online customs form @lotzofuniquegoodies . Always ship with tracking Internationally. And always use my own biz phone number to protect Buyer privacy and security.

 

Never had a problem - at least no failures to pick up or complaints about dupe VAT - so are you saying these practices aren't enough?

Message 15 of 53
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Unexpected returns from the EU


@lotzofuniquegoodies wrote:

@marnotom! wrote:

@brettjet38 wrote:

 

...there are still some Buyers who do not get why they should pay VAT/TAX.


Well, if they paid VAT at Checkout, I can see why they'd be miffed about having to pay it again.


@marnotom! 

One of the requirements (it's listed on many of the Intl websites like Royal Mail etc) is a VALID email addy and land/cell number. Not all numbers in eBay are valid. If there is no way for the postal service/customs to contact the customer there have been cases where items get door tagged once and if not picked up (for whatever reason) they are just returned. Not all buyers check their eBay mail religiously so they may be missing the contact from the postal service. The gobblegook email does not always get ported to the customs paperwork. Why it is critical in the body of the bill to note the customs was collected in advance by eBay with the amount. Proof would be attaching the itemized packslip to the customs documents(highlighting helps). 

 

If customs can't see proof VAT was collected or customer can't prove they just re-bill.

 

-Lotz


@38e_avenue 

 

One other piece of information that is important to consider with shipping internationally certain countries have special requirements for documentation. Some need a specific number of copies. Others only in certain languages or a translated copy. Certificates. Item restrictions. Here is the CP tool for checking those requirements.

 

https://www.canadapost-postescanada.ca/cpc/en/support/personal/international-destinations-listing.pa...

 

VAT Particulars:

Value Added Tax (VAT)

On July 1, 2021, the European Union (EU) made changes to their Value Added Tax (VAT) rules. The EU removed the VAT exemption of €22, and VAT is now required for all commercial items imported into the EU, with the exclusion of gifts and goods subject to excise duties.

The EU customs authorities have created a portal called the Import One-Stop-Shop (IOSS) to manage the payment of VAT. For shipments under €150 in value, commercial customers can charge the VAT at the time of purchase (rather than collecting at the door) and use the IOSS portal to remit VAT payments monthly, directly to the EU. The IOSS is not allowed for gifts or for goods subject to excise duties (such as tobacco or alcohol). If using the IOSS scheme, the IOSS number and the 6-digit HS code are mandatory. 

Prepaying the VAT is not required and if the IOSS number is not provided, VAT, Duties and any additional fees will be collected from the recipient prior to delivery.

-Lotz

Message 16 of 53
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Unexpected returns from the EU

All the returned packages had "vat paid" with number included in the address. 

 

I am thinking seriously about terminating all international sales, except of Canada (I sell on US Ebay, so Canada counts as international 😃 ), UK and Australia.   

Message 17 of 53
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Unexpected returns from the EU


@doc_scribe wrote:

I've been pasting any VAT (or other) reference numbers into the second line of the online customs form @lotzofuniquegoodies . Always ship with tracking Internationally. And always use my own biz phone number to protect Buyer privacy and security.

 

Never had a problem - at least no failures to pick up or complaints about dupe VAT - so are you saying these practices aren't enough?


@doc_scribe 

 

I've been using Shippo for going on 4 years. It includes the optional more detailed form with a field for notes. That has been my system and has worked to date for me.  Knock on plutonium. 🙂 The bonus confirmation is including a copy of PS attached to the customs label which shows collected by eBay as double proof. Just had the one shipment to Cyprus where customer needed a replacement copy of document(s) to satisfy customs Gods before it was released without him repaying. The bonus form also allows you at your discretion to choose Return or Abandon. Is it really worth returning a 15.00 item with 25.00 shipping?

 

Example:

lotzofuniquegoodies_0-1679941695802.png

 

 

-Lotz

Message 18 of 53
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Unexpected returns from the EU

Thank you all for your advices. Starting today, will take my paper work more seriously (all invoices and tax receipts inside AND outside). I hope it helps .... 🙄

Message 19 of 53
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Unexpected returns from the EU


@lotzofuniquegoodies wrote:

@marnotom! wrote:

@brettjet38 wrote:

 

...there are still some Buyers who do not get why they should pay VAT/TAX.


Well, if they paid VAT at Checkout, I can see why they'd be miffed about having to pay it again.


@marnotom! 

One of the requirements (it's listed on many of the Intl websites like Royal Mail etc) is a VALID email addy and land/cell number. Not all numbers in eBay are valid. If there is no way for the postal service/customs to contact the customer there have been cases where items get door tagged once and if not picked up (for whatever reason) they are just returned. Not all buyers check their eBay mail religiously so they may be missing the contact from the postal service. The gobblegook email does not always get ported to the customs paperwork. Why it is critical in the body of the bill to note the customs was collected in advance by eBay with the amount. Proof would be attaching the itemized packslip to the customs documents(highlighting helps). 

 

If customs can't see proof VAT was collected or customer can't prove they just re-bill.

 

-Lotz


Yes the packing list with highlighted tax info on the OUTSIDE of the package seems to do the trick (mostly).

 

I ship to the EU via APC or PostNL, I was having issues with double tax collection but since doing the packing list thing I haven't had a problem that I'm aware of. Prior to that quite a few were held for VAT which of course buyers refused to pay.

 

At least with Canada Post there is a chance to get an actual return, the shippers I use DO NOT do returns.

 

I also try to always use a DDP service, I suspect Canada Post Small Packet shipments go via the DDU stream so it's imperitive that customs in the destination country can easily see that VAT has already been collected.

 

 



"What else could I do? I had no trade so I became a peddler" - Lazarus Greenberg 1915
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