eBay, Canada Post and Insanity

 As anybody that has read my messages over the last few weeks know, I am about fed up with both eBay and CPC. From losing parcels, to ridiculous delivery estimate dates, to unwarranted defects, to buyers who don't seem to know what they are doing...etc...etc..etc.

 

 I had a buyer from Finland message me saying the order that I sent on Sept. 29 was still not there on Oct.27. The estimated deliver date to Finland it was Oct 5-Oct.7. Later the same day it showed up. It was sent light packet international. It has been my experience that four weeks is not too uncommon for overseas shipments. However, thanks to eBay putting the expected delivery dates in flaming neon (well they may as well) I have had more buyers asking me then ever where their items are because "By golly eBay said it should be here by this date").   Um really? To top it all off some buyers use the "item not received" question which in turn gives you an automatic defect because it automatically opens a case. How fair is that?

 

 I recently had one shipment to the U.S. that I ended up reshipping as it was a no show. The second order I put tracking on at my expense. The customer messages me to let me know that not only did it show up, the first order did as well. This was 41 days after the initial shipment!!!

 

 Shipping tracked packet works on a very few of my orders as it is too expensive for most of what I sell. I had one tracked packet that I had to file a lost claim on because even though I handed it over the counter at CP it was never scanned into the system therefore didn't exist. Thankfully it finally showed up once it hit USPS. At least one postal company was doing it's job.

 

 I have another order sitting on my desk that I mailed Oct.13 to Quebec. I got it back two weeks later saying that the address didn't exist. I had another one to Ontario three weeks ago that had the same problem. Funny though because after contacting the customer I find out the address is correct so I reshipped  and they received it. I haven't reshipped this one as I have repeatedly tried to contact the customer with no results. I will be forced to cancel the order because of address issues even though chances are the address is fine. Naturally I will most likely incur another defect due to a very unhappy customer. Then there is the matter of orders coming back to me because CPC can't tell the difference between the sender and receiver address. I do highlight the "To" now to make sure..though I've still gotten one back.  Sigh.

 

 I lost my top rated seller status because of two defects that should NOT be on my account. I am going to call eBay and try to get them removed. However I am not sure I should bother because I expect I will be receiving many more. I can't imagine that I will still be an eBay seller once the new defect for ship time comes into effect, unless of course eBay comes to their senses.

 

In the meantime the only thing I think I can try is to go through my shipping and change everything to economy or standard. I refuse to change my handling time as I do believe buyers pay attention to that and if I list a longer handling time my business will become even slower then it is.

 

 It would seem eBay is confused on what to rate sellers on and CPC is falling apart at the seams. Not looking very optimistic by any means!

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I talked to CS today about getting the defect removed. They said they couldn't remove it as the customer received the item past the estimated delivery date. The only reason eBay knows the customer received it after the estimated delivery date was because I reshipped with tracking. Because of this the shipping date shown was after the initial delivery date estimate. I know this as the customer did not leave FB so did not answer the evil delivered by date question.

 

 I talked to this customer of course and they are upset that in asking a question they caused me to get a defect which of course was not their intention.

  Because I try to be a good seller, one who wants to make sure the buyer is satisfied and gets what they ordered I am penalized when the postal/customs services are not doing their jobs.  Thank you eBay. So I lost my TRS and my customer got both orders which showed up on the same day. Great for them.

 I told the CSR about the 4-7day delivery estimate given on shipping overseas. They agreed that it did seem unreasonable so offered the extending handling time and changing shipping options workaround. I told them I didn't think I should have to use any workarounds. That if eBay was already offering them (the workarounds) then they themselves are as much as admitting this new shipping defect that is coming our way in February is one huge mistake. Since delivery dates are already being made an issue it is making an impact on sellers right now. I don't think I've ever..and I mean EVER had so many buyers asking and or pointing out delivery times to me before.  

 The CSR told me they are going to wipe our slates clean defect wise come Feb. but I won't be surprised if a lot of us small sellers are gone before then. I doubt I will be able to take too many more hits. Only high volume sellers will be left at this rate. I'd rather take a negative from a customer then be held responsible for an order sitting at customs for a week or CPC taking their sweet old time processing our mail. Please rate me on things I can control. I ship the same or next business day. Why would I want to extend my handling so much that buyers will shop somewhere else? Wonderful advice eBay 😞

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I feel your pain.  I too had a buyer enquire as to where his parcel was.  It arrived 2 days later but I got a defect.  When I called the CSR said I created a bad selling experience for the buyer as they did not get it on time.  I said they bought it at 11 AM and it was in the mail that day at 3 PM, I can't be any faster.  Canada post didn't deliver it until almost 2 weeks later.  It was coming from BC to Ontario.  I have now changed my handling time to 2 days and changed my shipping to economy 1 to 15 days.  If Ebay wants me to play the game, I have to.  I spent hours revising 900+ listings.  I still will mail the same or next day, nothing will change except my listings and the buyers expectations. 

 

The defect should go to Canada Post not me.  What a stupid system they are now implementing.  

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Re: eBay, Canada Post and Insanity

I feel your pain and frustration. Is it possible there is a problem with the place you are using to mail your items? If you dispatch from the same outlet all the time, can you try another? If you use a mailbox, can you take it into the outlet? Or call Canada Post to complain there is sketchiness happening? 

 

Calling eBay Customer Service, for me, is always a gamble. There is at least a 50 per cent chance the person I am speaking to will be so utterly hopeless that I want to strangle myself with the phone cord before the call is over.

 

Would you consider walking us other Community members through the process that you use, step-by-step, for international shipments? Maybe there is something unintentional that is causing delays. I'm not having the same ill-fortune with untracked items KNOCK ON WOOD but I have noticed form personal experience that once things do a little awry, it all seems to head that direction like a magnet had been glued to someone's back, Looney Tunes style. 

 

Anyway, hang in there. 

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Re: eBay, Canada Post and Insanity

Calling Canada Post is not a whole lot better!

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Re: eBay, Canada Post and Insanity


@mjwl2006 wrote:

I feel your pain and frustration. Is it possible there is a problem with the place you are using to mail your items? If you dispatch from the same outlet all the time, can you try another? If you use a mailbox, can you take it into the outlet? Or call Canada Post to complain there is sketchiness happening? 

 

Calling eBay Customer Service, for me, is always a gamble. There is at least a 50 per cent chance the person I am speaking to will be so utterly hopeless that I want to strangle myself with the phone cord before the call is over.

 

Would you consider walking us other Community members through the process that you use, step-by-step, for international shipments? Maybe there is something unintentional that is causing delays. I'm not having the same ill-fortune with untracked items KNOCK ON WOOD but I have noticed form personal experience that once things do a little awry, it all seems to head that direction like a magnet had been glued to someone's back, Looney Tunes style. 

 

Anyway, hang in there. 


 I have been taking my items both tracked and untracked straight to our local post office and not an outlet. I used to throw them in the mail bin with no issues. Now it doesn't seem to matter what I do. Strangely enough another seller I know in town has had no trouble at all and she uses mainly stamps to mail to the U.S. and she just throws them in the letter bin.

 

 There truly is not much to walk you through though I do appreciate your willingness to try to help! I always ship the same or next business day and I almost always use PayPal shipping labels. Most of my orders ship without tracking because much of what I sell is low cost. I've started putting tracking on higher cost orders often at my own expense simply because of the ridiculous time I've been having. I don't find tracked packet safe either as the one shipment I had didn't get scanned once by CPC and didn't show up until it entered USPS hands.

 

 I have complained to CPC on the phone and in person but basically all I get are apologies and no solutions. I really am not sure what else I can do. I am not new to this. I just closed down another store that I had for a few years and before that I sold with another seller. I have been on eBay 11 years as both buyer and seller.

 

 I have had some success in the past when talking to eBay CSR, but this time, like you, I could have strangled myself with the phone cord by the time the call was over. Luckily I have a cordless phone 😉

 

 That didn't stop me from spewing all my pent up frustration though. I did it in a controlled fashion, no sense in getting verbally violent. I did have the CSR rather flustered by the time I was done. I turned some of my issues around and asked her what she would do, how she would feel etc.  I think she saw my point even though I realize it's all for nothing.  She did tell me that we should all send our 'suggestions' to eBay as they really do read them. LOL!!!

 

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Re: eBay, Canada Post and Insanity


@dutchman48 wrote:

Calling Canada Post is not a whole lot better!


You've got that right!

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Re: eBay, Canada Post and Insanity


@musicyouneed wrote:

I feel your pain.  I too had a buyer enquire as to where his parcel was.  It arrived 2 days later but I got a defect.  When I called the CSR said I created a bad selling experience for the buyer as they did not get it on time.  I said they bought it at 11 AM and it was in the mail that day at 3 PM, I can't be any faster.  Canada post didn't deliver it until almost 2 weeks later.  It was coming from BC to Ontario.  I have now changed my handling time to 2 days and changed my shipping to economy 1 to 15 days.  If Ebay wants me to play the game, I have to.  I spent hours revising 900+ listings.  I still will mail the same or next day, nothing will change except my listings and the buyers expectations. 

 

The defect should go to Canada Post not me.  What a stupid system they are now implementing.  


Yes I do recall reading your post on the matter. It is so unfair! I was told that come Feb. we would all be fine because as long as we ship by our stated handling time we wouldn't get a defect. Of course that was until I reminded the CSR that that would only work if we ship with tracking so that we had an acceptance scan. I have to revise all my shipping to standard and economy as well though I hesitate at extending my handling time. I suppose it would be in my best interest given the time I've been having with shipping.  Good luck to you..to all of us!

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Re: eBay, Canada Post and Insanity

I've been reading your posts with dismay -- I think many of us smaller sellers are worried about our futures on eBay if we aren't in a position to afford tracking on most items (which is probably the norm unless you're selling diamond jewelry or antiques).  

 

I foresee that a lot of interesting "boutique" sellers are going to drop away from eBay, through no fault of their own after February.  Maybe this is what eBay wants -- get rid of all those funky "old style" eBay sellers and fill in the gaps with the big retailers.  

 

Like you, I rankled at the idea of extending my handling time and showing "economy" shipping services in order to avoid the worst consequences of this new policy.  However, I finally decided that although I'm risking having potential buyers looking askance at 2-day handling (whoops, there goes that back button again!), I am going to change all my listings but continue to ship mostly the same day (and to let buyers know that, via a post-sale email message).  I feel I have no choice if I want to have a chance of surviving a little longer here.  Who knows -- if we hang on long enough, eBay may change the rules again (as they always do), but in a way that won't be so detrimental to Canadian sellers.  Forgive me, I'm the eternal optimist.  I think you have to be to sell on eBay. 

 

My wry joke for the past 3 years has been that I always feel I'm only one Seller Update away from having to give up on eBay -- well, this may prove to be the one.   

 

The irony to me, that almost makes me laugh out loud, is that eBay has spent the last umpteen years telling us to reduce our stated handling time and use the best available shipping service -- and punishing us more and more for not doing so!  Now their advice is to do the opposite in order to "work around" their own policies?  How absurd is that? 

 

At least you still have some regular sales.  My have gone down over this year from generally 1 or 2 a day to 1 or 2 a week (if I'm lucky), with a few utterly inexplicable bulges of sales every once in a while that seem completely unconnected with anything I've done or not done.  

 

Incidentally, you mention the CSR told you the defect slate will be "wiped clean" come February 20th.  From what Raphael mentioned a week or so ago, I think that's incorrect.  It appears that eBay will migrate old defects into the new system that would have been defects under the new system, but delete those that would not have accrued under the new rules.  For example, defects due to neutral feedback should be removed, while defects due to late arrival of parcels will not.  At least that is how most of us understood Raphael's explanation.  It does need some clarification, which I intend to ask for the next time he's around on a Wednesday. 

 

I feel like I'm holding on with my fingernails along the outer wing of a rapidly moving but very rickety aircraft...

 

 

 

 

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Re: eBay, Canada Post and Insanity

The tracking requirement is poorly stated and misunderstood.

 

At the eBay 20th, is was stated directly  to me: "We just want some indication it was delivered". They are100% aware that sellers opt for the cheapest, non-tracked, form of shipping, and have no intention of altering that.

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Re: eBay, Canada Post and Insanity

Anonymous
Not applicable

eBay needs to stop "inventing" the so-call the estimate date for delivery.  Too often their estimate is insane and not possible!  eBay need to "retire" that, for sure!!

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Re: eBay, Canada Post and Insanity


@rose-dee wrote:

 

 

.... Like you, I rankled at the idea of extending my handling time and showing "economy" shipping services in order to avoid the worst consequences of this new policy.  However, I finally decided that although I'm risking having potential buyers looking askance at 2-day handling (whoops, there goes that back button again!), I am going to change all my listings but continue to ship mostly the same day (and to let buyers know that, via a post-sale email message).  I feel I have no choice if I want to have a chance of surviving a little longer here.  Who knows -- if we hang on long enough, eBay may change the rules again (as they always do), but in a way that won't be so detrimental to Canadian sellers.  Forgive me, I'm the eternal optimist.  I think you have to be to sell on eBay......

 

 

Incidentally, you mention the CSR told you the defect slate will be "wiped clean" come February 20th.  From what Raphael mentioned a week or so ago, I think that's incorrect.  It appears that eBay will migrate old defects into the new system that would have been defects under the new system, but delete those that would not have accrued under the new rules.  For example, defects due to neutral feedback should be removed, while defects due to late arrival of parcels will not.  At least that is how most of us understood Raphael's explanation.  It does need some clarification, which I intend to ask for the next time he's around on a Wednesday. 

 

I feel like I'm holding on with my fingernails along the outer wing of a rapidly moving but very rickety aircraft...

 

 


 

I am taking the opposite approach and will change nothing about what I do, or how I do it. As I understand it, rose-dee, we are both going into this new system of evaluation with: (a) 100 per cent feedback; (b) no defects; (c) a relatively low rate of returned buyer feedback, and that (d) we ship without tracking at least half if not most of the time. It will be interesting to take a ten-thousand foot view of the outcome by, say, next summer. My store 'contract' here is up for renewal at the end of May. 

 

The way I see these changes brought forward under the Fall Seller Update 2015, if what I do right now is as close to perfect as humanly possible as far as buyers and ebay are concerned, there is no reason to reasonably expect that will change. Therefore, I will change nothing and ignore it as best as I can. 

 

And if my status as a Top-Rated Seller with 100 per cent feedback and no defects does change because I am suddenly being measured against unreasonable standards that deliberately skew the score against Canadian sellers, well..... I don't want to be part of that kind of business environment. I don't need to be. As I have often said here since the update is announced, ebay needs sellers like me more than I need ebay. 

 

And the following isn't directed specifically at you, rose-dee, but all sellers: I won't presume to tell others how to manage their sales flow but I would strongly encourage people to think twice before extending their handling time as a guard against unfair judgement at the hands of The Question. As an online consumer, I can tell you that there are a number of factors I consider before making an online purchase. The first test is: is it exactly what I am looking for? The second is of equal weight to the third: how fast can I expect to get it for the price I am willing to pay? An extended handling time might save you grief at feedback but it will be pointless if no one buys what you're selling or goes into it with trepidation because they already expect to wait an eternity to receive it. What if, despite your efforts, all they remember at leaving feedback is that gut worry and not the date by which they actually got your untracked order? An extended handling time won't make any difference. They might still mark it 'no' because they don't remember, they check the longer handling time on the order, and figure it must not have come by then anyway....?

 

While I understand fully the reason that sellers are making the switch to extending handling times, my fear is that those sellers will all be shooting themselves in the foot to meet the anticipated demands of an increasingly fickle master. Remember, eBay is merely our venue, not our boss. Customers are top priority. Consider looking OUTSIDE ebay to see how fast competitors promise their orders dispatched and delivered, and please ensure you're not withdrawing from the race with new, extended handling times. Especially at this time of year when time is of the utter essence. We are not selling to and from a fishbowl here on ebay; there is a world outside of it, we are competing too with all of those venues and sellers on those venues as well. 

 

Best of luck to everyone here. I mean that. 

 

 

 

 

 

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The way I see these changes brought forward under the Fall Seller Update 2015, if what I do right now is as close to perfect as humanly possible as far as buyers and ebay are concerned, there is no reason to reasonably expect that will change. Therefore, I will change nothing and ignore it as best as I can. 

 

That is exactly, 100%, correct.

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Re: eBay, Canada Post and Insanity



rose-dee wrote:

  

Incidentally, you mention the CSR told you the defect slate will be "wiped clean" come February 20th.  From what Raphael mentioned a week or so ago, I think that's incorrect.  It appears that eBay will migrate old defects into the new system that would have been defects under the new system, but delete those that would not have accrued under the new rules.  For example, defects due to neutral feedback should be removed, while defects due to late arrival of parcels will not.  At least that is how most of us understood Raphael's explanation.  It does need some clarification, which I intend to ask for the next time he's around on a Wednesday. 

 


 

My second thought is that we do need clarification on this. R said 'replaced' and I would not trust a Customer Service Rep to understand the practical, real world application of that. When I call ebay for assistance, I am often patched to one particular operating centre that sounds as if people are literally piled atop each other and sharing equipment. And they sound absolutely panic-stricken from the second they answer the call. I can only hazard a guess as to what is going on there. My point is that if your CSR is speaking AT you and not to you, is NOT able to converse as they type, and sounds as stressed as if they are being chased by a mob through the streets at night, this is probably not advice you want to take to heart. 

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You're in a small town in rural Saskatchewan? Did you know that the delivery estimates provided by ebay do not accurately reflect point of origin OR receipt? If it takes your parcels a day or even two of extra handling time to make it to a major urban centre and then a weekend hits and then your order goes to customs where it sits again and then to a buyer outside a major urban centre itself, you are doomed from the start. 

 

If you have the time and inclination, check some 'remote or rural' delivery estimates via Canada Post versus your own listings using postal codes that are readily available here: https://www.canadapost.ca/business/tools/ds/default.aspx?ecid=murl08002548

 

I tried to make as big a stink as I could about this when the Update was announced but was told there was too much programming required to fix it and that 'it wouldn't matter for the few buyers and sellers affected' but if you are shipping from a remote location yourself..... 

 

http://community.ebay.ca/t5/Seller-Updates/2015-Fall-Seller-Update/td-p/312578/page/4

 

It's at the top. 

 

 

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Re: eBay, Canada Post and Insanity


@mr.elmwood wrote:

The tracking requirement is poorly stated and misunderstood.

 

At the eBay 20th, is was stated directly  to me: "We just want some indication it was delivered". They are100% aware that sellers opt for the cheapest, non-tracked, form of shipping, and have no intention of altering that.


I'm afraid I have to disagree -- I think we Canadians understand very well what we are looking at.  This may be very true for American sellers, who can more easily afford tracking and who, for the most part, are selling domestically, relying on only one postal service to get parcels to their destinations.  If I were a U.S. seller I'd be pretty pleased right now. 

 

Having some indication of delivery only works under the new rules if you use tracking, so it sounds as if you were being fed some "happy face spin" by eBay.  There is no way to get an indication of delivery that will meet eBay's new standards if you do use cheap, non-tracked shipping if CP/USPS doesn't do its job and the buyer happens to answer The Question.  

 

That's the reality that Canadian sellers are now facing.  With tracking, meeting that bar certainly is easy -- either at the very beginning (reception scan), or the end (delivery scan). Then whatever the buyer says is moot, you're invincible. 

 

For a smaller seller listing items that aren't of high value, using tracking even 50% of the time to try to work the odds in our favour is just not feasible as a business model.  

 

There are three crucial problem areas with this new policy that I see -- aside from the obvious lack of control Canadian sellers have over Canada Post and USPS:

(1) eBay is setting the delivery standards;

(2) eBay is going to be using a very small statistical base for evaluating sellers (i.e. only those buyers who answer The Question), and a reduced defect allowance; and

(3) eBay will now be specifically highlighting the delivery aspect when buyers leave FB.  When I bought something on eBay recently, I was shocked to see how prominent and inescapable The Question was on the FB display. 

 

I don't see how any of this is good news for Canadian sellers.  

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Re: eBay, Canada Post and Insanity

(You forgot to add that ebay is using delivery standards that it is aware are set too short in many cases due to programming deficiencies.)

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Re: eBay, Canada Post and Insanity


@mjwl2006 wrote:

 

I am taking the opposite approach and will change nothing about what I do, or how I do it. As I understand it, rose-dee, we are both going into this new system of evaluation with: (a) 100 per cent feedback; (b) no defects; (c) a relatively low rate of returned buyer feedback, and that (d) we ship without tracking at least half if not most of the time.

 

I use tracking only occasionally, for higher-priced items, and I have a small monthly volume, so from a simple statistical viewpoint, the odds are much higher that I will eventually get a "No" to The Question.  No matter what else I do, I won't be able to realistically alter that fact (unless perhaps I start putting a note in parcels pleading with buyers not to leave FB Woman LOL).

 

The way I see these changes brought forward under the Fall Seller Update 2015, if what I do right now is as close to perfect as humanly possible as far as buyers and ebay are concerned, there is no reason to reasonably expect that will change. Therefore, I will change nothing and ignore it as best as I can. 

 

The problem is that unless you use tracking,it isn't going to be your performance that will be now be measured, either by buyers or eBay, but Canada Post's (and USPS or other foreign postal service).  That is what is so different about this policy change. 

 

And if my status as a Top-Rated Seller with 100 per cent feedback and no defects does change because I am suddenly being measured against unreasonable standards that deliberately skew the score against Canadian sellers, well..... I don't want to be part of that kind of business environment. I don't need to be. As I have often said here since the update is announced, ebay needs sellers like me more than I need ebay. 

 

And the following isn't directed specifically at you, rose-dee, but all sellers: I won't presume to tell others how to manage their sales flow but I would strongly encourage people to think twice before extending their handling time as a guard against unfair judgement at the hands of The Question.

 

I suspect I have a far less impatient customer base than yours, who put a lot of thought into each purchase, so I don't think extending my 1-day handling to 2 days will make much difference.  I also have many unique items that can't be found elsewhere, so I really don't think my own buyers will be turned off by seeing an extra day (if they even bother to look at that aspect of shipping.  But you're right -- each seller has to weigh the risks and possible benefits of extending handling time based on what they understand about their products and customers. 

 

Remember, eBay is merely our venue, not our boss. Customers are top priority. 

 

While customers are of course our top priority as sellers, for a few years now I've questioned whether they are eBay's top priority (or ever have been, for that matter).  EBay is to my mind the very definition of a controlling boss who never leaves us alone to do a good job, always peering over our shoulders because they want to direct how we sell.  I'm sorry to disagree with you, but I believe they are anything but neutral.  If they were merely a neutral third party offering a platform for selling, then aside from some basic good behaviour rules, I think they would have got out of the way of buyer/seller relations long ago and dropped their obsession with seller punishment. 

 

Viewing eBay as a neutral venue may result in a nasty shock when the hammer falls.  I prefer to compare eBay to an overbearing, micro-managing, dictatorial and draconian mall owner who can't keep his fingers out of everybody's business and must forever be creating and re-creating rules and policies.  As you so rightly put it -- an increasingly fickle master.  I'll be doing whatever I can to stay out of his way and under his radar as long as possible, but I feel as you do, that my days here may be numbered.  I won't want to continue scraping away in the dark corners of eBay like a beggar for a few measly sales per month if eBay downgrades me to the point of oblivion through no fault of my own.

 

My apologies -- this whole thing is looming and the prospect of it has me in a rather sour mood today.  I guess we'll get the first "preview" tomorrow in our dashboards of what we'll be faced with in February. Woman Frustrated

 

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Re: eBay, Canada Post and Insanity

"I'm afraid I have to disagree"

 

Well, Rose, did you go to San Jose and talk with them face to face? I did. Did you talk with Mr Wenig face to face? I did.  What you want to believe is the opposite of what they said to me.

 

 

 

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Re: eBay, Canada Post and Insanity


@mr.elmwood wrote:

"I'm afraid I have to disagree"

 

Well, Rose, did you go to San Jose and talk with them face to face? I did. Did you talk with Mr Wenig face to face? I did.  What you want to believe is the opposite of what they said to me.

  


No, I wasn't there, but I'm sorry, I just can't see how one can put a positive spin on something that will so clearly be impossible to control the moment a seller decides not to use tracking. 

 

Were they aware they were speaking to a Canadian seller?  Were they fully cognizant of Canada Post tracked rates to the U.S. and beyond?  Even if they were, I think we all know how one-track minded Americans can be at times -- what's good for America must be good for everybody. 

 

I suppose we'll all find out the reality after February.  I hope your U.S. CEO's are right, but I won't be laying any bets just yet. 

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