eBay Fall Annoucement

[lotzofuniquegoodies]

For sellers on dot com.

2021 Fall Announcement is now available on dot com. It includes updates to the eBay User Agreement.  As of yet nothing showing on dot ca.

Your Fall Seller Update is here - The eBay Community

-Lotz

[lotzofuniquegoodies]

Tape delay as noted:

2021 Fall Seller Update (ebay.ca)

[intimewithmusic]

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@lotzofuniquegoodies wrote:

For sellers on dot com.

2021 Fall Announcement is now available on dot com. It includes updates to the eBay User Agreement.  As of yet nothing showing on dot ca.

Your Fall Seller Update is here - The eBay Community

-Lotz

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FEAR HEAR Lotz: I just looked it over. It looks like a Supreme Court Affidavit not something that says "Hey Sellers Let's get on our Christmas season selling hats! 🙂

Sorry in advance for typos.....

My head is spinning. Don't drive after reviewing it. 

Whatever you do don't click on the link that lists all of the "CA Category" changes assuming CA means Canadian. Couldn't actually find the whole word anywhere. 

Looks like fees going up. Were we paying 14.55% for Books & Magazines before? Seems like a lot.  Is it a coincidence that was the category most Sellers complained about an overload of new Item specifics?

If I list the book "How to Play Bass Guitar" in "Guitars & Basses" the final value fee is 5.85%. If I list the same book in "Book & Magazines" the FV fee is 14.55%. 

I've just taken a glance but at first glance this Fall Seller Update looks like it covers changes that will spead out into the next year and is a lot to digest and implement at the beginning of 4th quarter. 

If, you want this explained by others as I do you might choose to listen to the Ebay for Business Podcasts and for seller perspectives the YouTube gerus  "The Auction Professor" and "Prime Time Treasure Hunter" to break it down. 

Bottom line how much more work will be necessary and how much more money will this all cost? From what I can tell based on research for 2021 the average seller with a store currently pays approximately 14-15% of their gross revenue including shipping paid by the buyer for Final Value fees and, including their store subcription.  

Let's call fees on the gross to September 1, 2021  15%.  You have to wonder if you calculate a value for your time is the profit from selling still worth it? There is the sourcing, the prepping, the location, the listing, the shipping and the bad debts etc . All of that is part of any normal business.  But with all this red tape after doing all that work how much per hour are we receiving for the updating of the work we already completed? 

It would seem more sensible if Ebay morphed into two different platforms one with all the new stuff and a "grandfathered" site  leaving everything that was already listed on "GrampaEbay" just the way it was.

   Then they started a whole new Seller Platform called "BabieBay" or "Ebay Version 2"  that already had all this great new search stuff and categorization in place.  You could list with confidence your listing was going to "survive" until your item sold and the fees were "platform appropriate". 

  That would have eased the burden on scores of folks who were close to retiring from Ebay instead of forcing them through all these heavy complex changes causing so many to give up. 

   After reading the recategorization details it appears that you will need to enter those "Recommended Item Specifics'  after all.   What I understand is those determine the category they will relist your items in. this could be important if your category has a Final Value fee of 5.85% and the one they put you in is 14.55%.   

   I hope I'm wrong and fees are going down like Ebay said about Managed Payments.  It's right there in the Ebay For Business 2019 & 2020 podcasts.

   I hope that all this "extracurricular unpaid time consuming Ebay work" that is keeping us from listing our stuff and running our own good businesses works out in the Seller's best interest. 

    Time time time time time...will tell.

   ITWM

[mrdutch1001]

IF fees are increasing = NO surprise to me. eBay said A LOT of things would be better for sellers with the MP system - I believed NONE of it, and so far I am still a hold out = I did not sign up for MP & I will not until ALL of this big mess gets sorted.

[ypdc_dennis]

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@intimewithmusic wrote:

... Were we paying 14.55% for Books & Magazines before? ...

If I list the book "How to Play Bass Guitar" in "Guitars & Basses" the final value fee is 5.85%. If I list the same book in "Book & Magazines" the FV fee is 14.55%. 

After reading the recategorization details it appears that you will need to enter those "Recommended Item Specifics'  after all.   What I understand is those determine the category they will relist your items in. this could be important if your category has a Final Value fee of 5.85% and the one they put you in is 14.55%.   

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Canada is 12.35% for books under MP.

https://www.ebay.ca/help/selling/fees-credits-invoices/selling-fees?id=4822

Books at 14.55% is the ebay.COM fee. It has been higher on the USA side since the Fall 2018 update had a big fee increase for media categories on ebay.com. Some discussion back then: https://community.ebay.com/t5/Marketplace-Updates/A-32-FEE-INCREASE-For-Media-Sellers-Starting-Sept-...

The Spring 2021 update added another 0.2% to most ebay.com categories (Canada had no increase). So Canada currently has fees on books that are 2.2% lower (on the other hand the US sellers have cheap USPS media mail).

-;-

[deeeight]

me neither, I did cancel my premium store subscription yesterday. Ebay's losing their guaranteed 59.95 a month from me. They still have not deleted my remaining listings and the rare time something sells here, the payments are still processing just fine into my paypal account. Guess ebays too addicited to their percentage to actually follow through on the threat they made. Meanwhile on FB marketplace I did about $790CAD in sales in past 48 hours (and another $450 coming up later today) with ZERO fees deducted, all paid via Interac E-transfer or cash (for locals seeing my listings),  and the most complicated extra step is looking up different box shipping rates for CPC or NetParcel to tell the buyers what the total is going to be. And because I am not losing any fees... I can lower my prices and still make more profit than using **bleep**bay.

[intimewithmusic]

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THE TOPIC IS "eBay Fall Annoucement" Are you up for higher fees and work to revise more active listings while keeping on your smiley 4th quarter seller face?"

@ypdc_dennis wrote:

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@intimewithmusic wrote:

... Were we paying 14.55% for Books & Magazines before? ...

Reply from InTime WithMusic

 Link from @ypdc_dennis 

-Books at 14.55% is the ebay.COM fee. It has been higher on the USA side since the Fall 2018 update had a big fee increase for media categories on ebay.com. Some discussion back then: https://community.ebay.com/t5/Marketplace-Updates/A-32-FEE-INCREASE-For-Media-Sellers-Starting-Sept-...

   Thank you @ypdc_dennis for the stats comparing ca to com but it doesn't make any difference. I find it horribly terrifying the only thing in my review you chose to debate was was a few cents in two different documents.   Sellers don't care. They only care what THEIR fees cost. 

  You said nothing about:

 1. The 2021 drill down from simple to extreme complexity of the update. Actually you didn't mention the update at all. 

2. The hike in Seller store fees

3. The additional work caused through category re-classification

4. Lost business caused by category reclassification

5. Scrapped my proposal of a "Grandfathered Ebay" to help those financially reliant & unable to comply.

The figures  Ebay sent me yesterday were the ones I reported on. The ratios I report are from in house actual expenses not from Ebay seller updates. My ratios are generated in house from  paid invoices.

    15 % total fees is 100% accurate based on my categories and my store subscription.  As a brick and mortar centre owner who sold musical instruments on consignment for 25 years I can say for what you get 15% is a lot. And "a lot" does not include the burden of upgrading Ebay's data structure without compensation.   

   The 2021 Fall Seller Update I received (and all Canadian sellers received) was directed to the USA.  As Canadians we are expected to accept it even though it does not apply.  EG: As in my question answered by Tyler about coded coupons. "Coded coupons will never come to Canada.  Canadians don't qualify for the perks just the "works" including the Coded coupons. 

 My topic is not a debate.  "eBay Fall Annoucement" and my discussion is " depending on the categories you list in, "Most of our total fees last year met or surpassed 15% of gross revenue". 

On top of your time, total expenses and most importantly, Seller "enthusiasm" has Ebay Canada gone too far or worse, not far enough? 

IT

[mrdutch1001]

"Are you up for higher fees and work to revise more active listings while keeping on your smiley 4th quarter seller face?"

.....and does it really matter???

If a seller wishes to continue to sell on eBay those are exactly the things sellers will have to do...OR go elsewhere...

Online selling has changed greatly since the early days of eBay...and IF eBay is not the environment a seller wants to be wrapped up in, well eBay is not the only game in town, and there are other choices...

[lotzofuniquegoodies]

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@mrdutch1001 wrote:

"Are you up for higher fees and work to revise more active listings while keeping on your smiley 4th quarter seller face?"

.....and does it really matter???

If a seller wishes to continue to sell on eBay those are exactly the things sellers will have to do...OR go elsewhere...

Online selling has changed greatly since the early days of eBay...and IF eBay is not the environment a seller wants to be wrapped up in, well eBay is not the only game in town, and there are other choices...

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The quandry for many long established ebay sellers is to move to another platform can involve the labour to move 100's or even 1000's of listings. Not really a straight forward process. If it was it would be a excellent marketing concept. That does not to include the costs if there are cancellation fees involved and then the learning curve of a new platform. Insert <Macaulay Culkin face>.  Probably much more but was just skimming the surface.

As a side it would make for a good time to check for inventory errors....eBay or otherwise... but other than that.....

-Lotz

[ricarmic]

I've mentioned this before in other threads but any full time business would be prudent to utilize more than one online site, for continuity reasons.

I am not current because it has been years since I had my own site, so I might be incorrect but the problem of creating one's own site is generating and maintaing the exposure which generally costs time and money.

Migrating in the current world is not as catastrophic as in the past. In 15 minutes I can have my entire inventory on one other site and with a couple hours work on yet another.

I, like any business, focus the majority of my time on the site that returns the best $$ for the time and cost involved. I maintain the other contingency sites in the event that that changes.

So far, despite the myriad of trials and tribulations here (and on the other sites by the way), in my wee stamp world ebay is still my main focus at this time.

So far I don't see anything in the fall announcement that I think will change that.

What works for me might not work for others of course.

[lotzofuniquegoodies]

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@ricarmic wrote:

I've mentioned this before in other threads but any full time business would be prudent to utilize more than one online site, for continuity reasons.

I am not current because it has been years since I had my own site, so I might be incorrect but the problem of creating one's own site is generating and maintaing the exposure which generally costs time and money.

Migrating in the current world is not as catastrophic as in the past. In 15 minutes I can have my entire inventory on one other site and with a couple hours work on yet another.

I, like any business, focus the majority of my time on the site that returns the best $$ for the time and cost involved. I maintain the other contingency sites in the event that that changes.

So far, despite the myriad of trials and tribulations here (and on the other sites by the way), in my wee stamp world ebay is still my main focus at this time.

So far I don't see anything in the fall announcement that I think will change that.

What works for me might not work for others of course.

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For any sellers that sell OOAK type items the legwork, time and trouble to create listings can be substantial. Ebay used to be very good with those sorts of items. Now it is definitely not their focus.

-Lotz

[ricarmic]

Definitely that was the case in the beginning, trying to be all things for all people which appears to have been the attempt for a long time now is really a difficult thing to do.

My own observation between here (which has a huge draw of all sorts of folks for all sorts of things) and the other more specific/dedicated sites, is that the style and nature of the buyers is different.

Oftentimes for me stuff that sells very well here, goes very slowly there, stuff that sells very slowly here sells very well there, at least in my "domain".  Because of the "style" of stuff I sell, it might also explain why my results here seem to be better than others in my field that have better results and more focus on other sites.

[pjcdn2005]

At the risk of being scolded because I haven't commented on your whole post, please explain what you mean by:

2. the hike in seller store fees?

I don't recall seeing anything about fees going up on this update. Could you please show me where it says that.

As far as the rest of the update.. I think that it is ridiculous that they seem to be constantly changing categories and item specifics on each update and I can understand why some sellers are upset about that.  But other than that, the update doesn't seem to have a lot of things to get upset about. Perhaps I'm missing something.

[intimewithmusic]

@pjcdn2005 

Im sorry. I don't bite. No worries. The store subscription increase I mentioned was the least important thing in my post.  I thought it was $2/mnth.  Having said that I may have made an error.  To clarify;

I followed the link in this thread posted by @lotzofuniquegoodies .   Not sure he meant to post that one. It is the link to the ebayUSA version of the rollout. The link Ebay sent me was to the ebayCanada version. 

This entire update is an endless series of "drill downs". Not realizing I had ended up on the US site the store fees came up at $21.95 for a Basic subcription. I'm paying $19.99 so that was what led me to believe store subs were going up.  I'm not sure if they are. 

Again, my post was intended to open a discusion about the viabilty of operating a small Ebay business given the gradual increases of costs and time spent maintaining things particularily for the part time seniors who may not be technically savvy. 

Not meaning you  but most people these days don't read more than a sentence or two. before they let the guns fly.  

What I am sure of is that in 2021 the combined Ebay fees have gone up at least for me. I sell in quite a few categories and as a book keeper I track all expenses. The Ebay fees I'm taking about include;

• Store subscription
• Insertion fees
• Advanced listing upgrade fees
• Promoted listing fees
• International fees
• Final Value Fees

The other cost of having an Ebay store not listed is shrinkage.  We have to consider our cost of returns and fraudulent claims like chargebacks etc that are not covered by ebay.  2021 to date for me worked out to 14% Ebay expense and no returns or fraud cases so no shrinkage.  Griff at Ebay said that Sellers should allow 2% of their gross for shrinkage self insurance. I have pretty good luch there (knock on wood) so I added 1%. That gives me a figure of 15% to do business with Ebay. 

I feel this is a lot because during the 20 years I owned a music centre the margin of cost of sales/gross profit was 25-30%. Out of that you had to pay all expenses inc luding location, staff, operating expenses and if anything was left you paid yourself out of the net. 

Whether we can profit with a 15% grab off of the top boils down to your cost of goods and how lean you run your business.  I have witnessed 100s of my colleagues in brick & mortar go under due to thin margins myself included.  Most Ebayers don't keep a detailed set of books so I hope that my lengthy posts might help someone. Unfortunately most read only a sentence or two of what I'm offering. Many don't want to admit they don't know where their businesses are going. 

Canada has so many online "handicaps" I think it's important to keep expenses in check or at least let Ebay know when it's too much. Ebay Canada is not the best. It's not Ebay USA but it's the best we have. I think they want to hear this. The end result is more business and more sellers staying in business. 

We're on the cusp of the implementation of Canadian online provincial taxation. With the recovery ahead and the focus on online shopping it's not far down the road.  It only took the USA twelve months to implement and it changed the entire buying platform.

  Let's go into that market lean and profitable, not further burdened by even higher expenses.  We should also speak out about the difficulty competing with shipping to other countries. 

  With respect to the update anyone who is interested can go to YouTube and search "Ebay Fall Seller Update 2021 ".  If you sort by view count  Auction Professor is on top. He went live at lunch and has 23K views. He takes the time to read through everything (including the User Agreement) and interprets them with a business perspective. He had over 50K Ebay listings.  For an enthusiasitic seller it's worth the listen. 

[intimewithmusic]

Very well said.  I like Ebay. I have a web site that I administrate. I could easily add Shopify but I am loyal to Ebay. I like that they treat me well and that they do a lot of the dirty work. I have experience in collections and that was really disenheartening. Imagine reposessing a kid's instrument that mom stopped making payments on... I appreciate whenever Ebay steps in to help me out. That is why, if you go to my site store you end up in my Ebay store. 

In 1981 I went to work for an amazing very famous music company. I liked that too but then my paycheques started bouncing.  It seems the owner began to divert funds to another business. He became deer blind in developing it and forgot about us employees. It was very sad.  Even though our cheques were bouncing we were still going to work.  The company saw no value in our loyalty.  In then end both businesses collapsed. 

It could be that Ebay sellers are also changing. I think new sellers are more interested in doing serious business.

IT

[intimewithmusic]

Wish I'd seen this corrected link before LOL...

[intimewithmusic]

Those other selling platforms must also keep updating and changing. I wonder how hard it is to keep up with that? I'm trying to keep things simple. I haven't listed elsewhere. It would probably be good to have a bit of experience with that.

I have a stamp collection and a comic collection to sell. They don't fit my Ebay niche so there's no reason not to try another platform. 

Do you think those are good items to experiment with? 

IT

[ricarmic]

@intimewithmusic 

My thoughts regarding listing on multiple sites is that you need to decide why you are doing that.

My reason is for continuity incase anything catastrophic happens here, because this is my full time job and I need to try to protect my income source in that event.

Generally the cost of the continuity sites is higher both in time and $$ at least for me, because I'm generally maintaining a skeleton inventory just to keep me somewhat current regarding how the site works and selling enough to at least cover the fees etc. 

You are correct that every other site I've ever sold on has had evolution, changes etc, sometimes handled better than here, sometimes disastrous! 

I don't have experience selling different "branches/product lines" of stuff under one id since I've always been a stamp guy, however sometimes I've listed coins, etc that were collateral stuff in estates I've purchased and they've sold fine.  One advantage of selling different product lines under your current ID is that you bring your feedbacks, selling rates, etc to whatever you list irregardless of the category and I think that would probably favour your visibility.

As a new ID (here or) on any site people have to find you which is almost always a challenge and takes time and $$$ in and of itself.

Does that help?

[intimewithmusic]

From what I'm hearing there are three different reasons to use other platforms. Yours is as sort of a "parachute" in the event of something happening such as server failure, data loss or a major hack of some kind.  The other reason people tell me via forums etc is they cross list for exposure. It's not necessarily to reach more people but to reach more of the right people. Coins, vinyl records and rare books are good examples. 

I'm with you on the parachute concept.  Listing on one platform has enough "irregularities" for me. 🙂 Reverb has been interested in getting me onboard however they are mostly musical instruments.  I'm 90% music but I'm more about memorabilia than instruments.  Ebay is a good but only a "generalized" fit. I lose money in some categories such as original photography which brings about the third reason. "Stigma".

Vintage photos sold by collectible sellers do well but I find my original photos may prove better on a dedicated photgraphy platform.  So far I haven't seen any original entertainment photographers use Ebay.  Most sellers of contemporary photographs are reprint flippers selling illegal reprints. Not sure how they get away with it but Ebay doesnt stop them.  Is it the FV fees? I don't know but it's created  a "stigma" among the legitimate photographers against Ebay.  The well known ones like Dee Lippingwell sell direct from their sites. The unknowns like myself mostly use dedicated photo sites. 

Item value can be interesting. My dad didn't hesitate to sell his 1969 mint Chev Impala convertible on Ebay. I didn't even know he had done it! No problem.  A few weeks ago I was asked to consign a painting of Louis Armstong depicting many differnt scenes around New Orleans. It was 5 feet wide and a shipping nighmare.  It was beautiful and valued between $50K and $80K.  The high end art market isn't my thing. there are experts of course in that field and again theres a stigma in the art world about Ebay.  To my shagrin and loss of a $15K commission I referred him to a proper auction house.  Can you imagine if you got a credit card chargeback? 🙂

Thanks for your input.

IT

[intimewithmusic]

I wish I knew more about stamps. Very easy to ship and list but what % goes to Domestic, USA and International?  Now that investors are taking an interest in collector cards are stamps affected the same way? 

Ebay USA frowns on untracked shipping all the while Ebay Canada, for good reason, looks the other way giving us all a break to make us Canadians competitive.  EBay USA went to the extent of enlisting USPS to sync &  track stamps practically free in the form of EBay Standard envelopes: They just announced new enhancements to that program.

EBay Quote: "Saves up to 70% vs. USPS® First Class Package Service
Available for trading cards, coins and currency, postcards and stamps
Integrated tracking and easy to print using eBay labels
Shipping protection plan up to $50 on combined items, in case of loss or damage
Drop off at regular USPS locations, no acceptance scan required"

There's nothing in the 2021 Fall Seller Update indicating any change's planned for Canada Post tracking.