eBay

pierrelebel · ‎09-10-2015

http://www.ecommercebytes.com/cab/abn/y15/m09/i10/s05

eBay Changes Seller Defect Rate as Part of Fall Update

http://www.ecommercebytes.com/cab/abn/y15/m09/i10/s06

sylviebee · ‎09-11-2015

In response to myself: I did have it wrong and maybe it looks more like this.

If the seller ships with tracking and it's scanned within the accepted time frame then the it's an automatic 5.

If, on the other hand, it's shipped without tracking and the buyer rates shipping time as slower than the stated time, then there's a defect.

In that case, if there is an issue at all it will be be for those people in areas not close to PO hubs.

BUT....... all in all the system on the whole seems to be not as bad as the posts here indicate.

tobyshitzu · ‎09-11-2015

It clearly says both the .com and our global trs are affected the same way with the new shipping time metric

tobyshitzu · ‎09-11-2015

Its exactly as indicated here for anyone who doesn't use tracking. Completely at the mercy of buyers opinion of on time, including overseas ones for us.

The one neutral I have on the this account was a kid, who never bought anything on ebay before or since, who thought the normal time was too slow. 3% of ones who answer say that and trs gone

rose-dee · ‎09-11-2015

@toby**bleep**zu wrote:

The one neutral I have on the this account was a kid, who never bought anything on ebay before or since, who thought the normal time was too slow. 3% of ones who answer say that and trs gone

Actually, it's 5% for Global TRS, so if a seller is mainly concerned about the 20% discount, there's a small additional leeway.

Here's the applicable text from the FAQs:

To qualify for Top Rated seller status in the Global Standards program, Canadian sellers can have a maximum of 0.5% of transactions with defects and a maximum of 5% of transactions with late shipments.

To qualify for Top Rated seller status in the US Standards program, the threshold will be a maximum of 0.5% of transactions with defects and a maximum of 3% of transactions with late shipments.

sylviebee · ‎09-11-2015

@toby**bleep**zu wrote:
Its exactly as indicated here for anyone who doesn't use tracking. Completely at the mercy of buyers opinion of on time, including overseas ones for us.

The one neutral I have on the this account was a kid, who never bought anything on ebay before or since, who thought the normal time was too slow. 3% of ones who answer say that and trs gone

When I first read the posts here I panicked but now I'm not sure why.

The way it is now, if you ship with or without tracking ratings are completely at the mercy of buyers opinion of time.

With the new system, if you ship with tracking you're home-free, and if you ship without tracking the buyer has a bit of a guide for ratings and this should only be a problem for those living in more remote areas.

It looks like shipping cost (among so many other ratings) will be gone and that should more than balance things out in most cases.

So, if the only new rating we will have to worry about is shipping time when the EST is shorter than it should be, then we should all be posting on Raphael's thread requesting the eBay.ca approach the CPO to increase those times a little or live up to its own standards.

momcqueen · ‎09-11-2015

sylviebee wrote: .... The way it is now, if you ship with or without tracking ratings are completely at the mercy of buyers opinion of time.With the new system, if you ship with tracking you're home-free, and if you ship without tracking the buyer has a bit of a guide for ratings and this should only be a problem for those living in more remote areas. It looks like shipping cost (among so many other ratings) will be gone and that should more than balance things out in most cases. So, if the only new rating we will have to worry about is shipping time when the EST is shorter than it should be, then we should all be posting on Raphael's thread requesting the eBay.ca approach the CPO to increase those times a little or live up to its own standards.

This is fairly close to what I said at first too. But the longer I thought about it, the angier I became. There is now only three things that a seller can do wrong in ebay's eyes to garner a defect. And one of these three things is to ship without tracking like most Canadians have NO choice but to do. Under the new rules, negative feedback is cool; items not received are cool; wrong items are cool -- no defect. Cancel a sale because you lose the item? Defect. That's fair; it is within a seller's control. Ignore a buyer's request to help with a problem? Defect. Again, within the control of a seller. Ship domestic lettermail and have it perceived as late? Defect. Still totally out of a seller's control. Anything goes BUT that and this is the crux of my enormous beef with this update. Sellers can now do any lousy thing they want to a buyer as long as the tracking on that package shows it was delivered on time and that is a raw deal for buyers. Not to mention an unfair one to Canadian sellers that do not have the same access to tracked services as do our American counterparts. Where were ebay Canada staff when this was on the table?

For me personally, nothing in the way I conduct my business will change as a result of this update. I've always shipped on time and exceeded expectations. I offer same-day handling and use tracking wherever feasible. I have no defects, and it is impossible for me to provide better service than I do now. I do every darn thing that ebay tells me to do and I do it with a smile. If, as a result of these changes, I start getting defects for matters that are TRULY out of my control, well, I'll just take my business elsewhere.

I'll say it one last time: ebay needs sellers like me more than sellers like me need ebay.

And, with that, I withdraw to matters at hand.

rose-dee · ‎09-11-2015

sylviebee wrote:

The way it is now, if you ship with or without tracking ratings are completely at the mercy of buyers opinion of time.

________________________________________________________________________________________

Yes, that's true, except that the whole way seller standards are measured, and the allowable rates for defects will change with the new policies.

So for example, we are currently allowed a 2% and 5% defect rate (TRS and standard, respectively) for shipping time DSRs, but that is only one metric of several, and the shipping time DSRs must be a 1 (i.e. the lowest possible rating). I would think a seller would have to be extremely bad at shipping for a customer to give a "1" DSR.

If a Canadian seller is interested in hanging on to TRS, these new rules are going to be onerous.

rose-dee · ‎09-11-2015

@mjwl2006 wrote:
There is now only three things that a seller can do wrong in ebay's eyes to garner a defect. And one of these three things is to ship without tracking like most Canadians have NO choice but to do.

The net result of these new rules, in my view, will be not only to allow some of the dross of U.S. sellers to rise near the top, but concurrently push so many of us Canadian sellers to the bottom (or near bottom) of searches -- a double whammy for us.

Essentially eBay has created a two-tier system on its site with these changes: one for American sellers who will find it easier to sell, easier to ship, and easier to maintain their TRS discounts; and another level for those of us in the basement, a.k.a. 2nd class passengers on the eBay ship.

sylviebee · ‎09-11-2015

For me it's very simple and I truly don't understand the panic on this board and regret that I reacted to it. It's contagious!

I have 4 defects and I'm hoping they make it retroactive because every one of them will disappear with the new system.

Not that complicated.

pjcdn2005 · ‎09-11-2015

Approximately what percent of your transactions do you use tracking for?

sylviebee · ‎09-11-2015

@pjcdn2005 wrote:
Approximately what percent of your transactions do you use tracking for?

It says 61%, but that number has been increasing steadily and it used to be much less.

My decision to ship with or without tracking is mainly about cost. If it costs an extra dollar or two and the item is more expensive I'll usually choose tracked packet.

However, for me, transit time, except for a very few occasions when something goes wrong en route, is not a problem.

In fact, items almost always get to their destinations faster than I would predict and I have to assume it's because I'm close to a hub.

I realize that it's not the same for everyone, but I do time my drop offs so that will at the PO in time for the next pick up following payment.

pjcdn2005 · ‎09-11-2015

You're in a better position than some sellers as many here rarely or never use tracking.

Those sellers have to totally rely on their buyers leaving feedback and answering the shipping time question.

They may not have problems with an item not being delivered on time but it is one thing to have proof with online tracking to show when an item arrived and it is another thing to rely strictly on your buyers reporting whether or not an item arrived in time.

If an item arrives in time but there is no tracking or confirmation from the buyer, then that transaction is not taken into account.

For example, a seller had 100 sales, none of them with tracking.

65% of their buyers usually leave feedback so I'll assume that all 65 answered the shipping time questions.

Their shipping time percentage would be based on 65 responses. If there were 2 late delivery comments they would

be judged on 2 out of 65, not 2 out of 100.

Time will tell how things will work out but it bothers me that the 35 transactions that may have gone perfectly are not counted at all.

sylviebee · ‎09-11-2015

pj, I'm not sure that really hit on what I was saying in my post.

I can't recall ever receiving a low rating for shipping time regardless of how I shipped the item.

There is no good reason to believe that will start when they implement the changes in the future.

I do realize that I might have an advantage due to location, but if sellers are not currently having a problem with low ratings for shipping time there is no reason to believe that will change, and even if does a "little" bit the benefits far outweigh the potential drawbacks.

For example: In my case I have 4 defects and with the new system I'd have zero defects.

I really think people are worrying over nothing.

cumos55 · ‎09-11-2015

2 out of 65 is 3.076 %

Borderline for eBay US where the percentage acceptable is 3 %

and still acceptable for eBay Canada where the percentage acceptable is 5 % for Global Standing

Canadian sellers do get a break when it comes to late deliveries.

If there was no tracking....

Wonder what happens when feedback is left before the expected delivery date... and the buyer says it was "late"... or tries to say it was late....

Do they then wait until after the delivery date... and then say it was delivered late...

zee-chan-jpn-books · ‎09-11-2015

@sylviebee wrote:

Is it possible to maintain TRS status without a 1 day handling time?

My handling time has always been listed as 5 days and I have had TRS for a few months. Realistically speaking I ship in 2-3 business days. 1 day is simply not feasible with my full time job and the long hours + commute.

Though I'm really considering increasing my handling time to 10 business days as the workaround rose-dee mentioned, so that the overly optimistic estimated delivery dates eBay shows buyer can be further back...

I'd say 96% of my shipments are untracked. Like most people mentioned, upgrading to international tracking sometimes cost more than the item's cost (how much I paid for them). The only time I use tracking (expedited parcel) is when the package weighs more than 500g to USA. The price difference between small packet air and expedited parcel is usually only about $2-3 so I'd upgrade it for the heck of it.

I "only" have one INR defect right now, and most buyers nowadays don't leave feedback so I don't have a good grasp of actual amount of time it takes for my items to reach them... I mean, the ones that bothered to leave me feedbacks all left 5 stars feedback (which I'm grateful for)... but what about the ones that don't leave feedbacks? Would eBay start prodding them and ask if their items arrived "late"?

But yeah I'm not really gonna change anything I do right now. I don't have time for that and I think I wasted enough brain cells thinking about it today already

PS. I just passed my 500 eBay transactions mark this week! It's probably nothing to most of you here but to me it's quite an accomplishment. I thought it'd be a hobby that I'd give up pretty quickly and I never expected to get TRS to begin with

zee-chan-jpn-books · ‎09-11-2015

http://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/sc/sr152/ThresholdInfographic_final2.pdf

By the way, I just wanted to make sure I'm interpreting this correctly...

Seller-cancelled transactions for items that are out of stock or cannot be fulfilled for any other reason, and cases that are closed without seller resolution.

This I think is silly to count as a defect and I know it already counts as defect right now with the current system. In the past there was a few times that I relisted something I sold by accident. I was able to resolve all of these by mutual cancellation and offering buyer full refund right away, or to switch to a pricier item at no additional cost to them. All buyers are happy and gave me positive feedback back then. Let's say this happened again... under the new system, there's no defect for resolved INR... then can't a seller just pretend to have shipped the item, then refund the INR case a few weeks later to avoid a defect?

rose-dee · ‎09-11-2015

@zee-chan-jpn-books wrote:

By the way, I just wanted to make sure I'm interpreting this correctly...
"Seller-cancelled transactions for items that are out of stock or cannot be fulfilled for any other reason, and cases that are closed without seller resolution."

This I think is silly to count as a defect and I know it already counts as defect right now with the current system.

EBay's point of view on out of stock situations has been that, even though a seller might happily refund (or provide a substitute), and may believe the buyer is satisfied, it is not an entirely perfect experience for the purchaser and may encourage him/her to look elsewhere to shop next time.

There is some merit in that position, especially now that there are few enough other defects to restrain negligent sellers. Every seller can make a mistake once in a while in this regard, but eBay doesn't want it to become a habit as a result of sloppy inventory management. Hence the defect, I imagine as a deterrent. This is, after all, something that is -- or should be -- within the control of the seller.

"Let's say this happened again... under the new system, there's no defect for resolved INR... then can't a seller just pretend to have shipped the item, then refund the INR case a few weeks later to avoid a defect?"

I'm not sure how a seller can "pretend" to have shipped an item and get out of being caught for it. Don't forget that buyers can now indicate late arrival if they decide to leave (negative) feedback, which will be worse for a seller than getting a defect if there is no tracking to prove that an item was sent/received. I think it's more likely that in an out of stock dilemma, sellers may send a poor substitute, or something totally unrelated to the original listing, simply to have sent anything at all, and refund promptly when the buyer complains the item is not as described (no defect if a INAD return is resolved by seller).

Just as has happened over the many years I've been on eBay, I have no doubt some sellers will find loopholes, workarounds and clever ways out of complying with these new policies. Then, as usual, eBay will find ways of refining or altering the policies to prevent the abuse. We should also remember that eBay now has the ability to monitor communications via eBay Messages, which they didn't have previously. I'm sure that in itself will resolve a lot of issues between buyers and sellers under the new policies.

zee-chan-jpn-books · ‎09-11-2015

For me it's certainly not a common occurrence... maybe 5 transactions? That's 1%, and sometimes it happened because the item was sold and somehow still got relisted... but that was at least a few years ago.

I think it's more likely that in an out of stock dilemma, sellers may send a poor substitute, or something totally unrelated to the original listing, simply to have sent anything at all, and refund promptly when the buyer complains the item is not as described (no defect if a INAD return is resolved by seller). <--- that sounds like a workaround people might use.

I think that with the seller-cancelled transactions they should actually give the buyer an opportunity to rate whether or not they are satisfied with the outcome to make it count as a defect....

pjcdn2005 · ‎09-11-2015

I understand what you are saying. You could be right that there is nothing to worry about although I don't think that this is the same thing as choosing one out of 5 numbers for a shipping time dsr. I don't think that I would be as concerned if the percentage was based on all of my transactions for that year, rather than just on a portion on them. As I said, we'll see how things work out.

doc_scribe · ‎09-11-2015

Generally, I'm not a 'sky is falling' kind of guy. I've seen many previous EBay Seller updates which at first glance seemed "onerous", but in practice turned out to be much less threatening...or at least workable in our day to day business on EBay. As a vet Seller, you just learn to roll with these things. I mean, hey, I'm a sport. Most Buyers are still good, decent, fair, and reasonable people. I still believe that, otherwise I could not continue doing this.

But with this Fall Seller update, there is another shoe dropping here, which, curiously, I haven't seen a lot of detailed discussion about either here or elsewhere, but which could very easilly become "onerous" in practice through ignorance or abuse. Specifically, I'm referring to Buyer Requested Cancellations and their potentially detrimental impact on our defect rate.

*Coincidentally* yesterday, less than 24 hours before this latest Seller update, smack in the middle of the night, I had a Buyer ask me to cancel a purchase, no reason given (Item #321860081406). Admittedly, it caught me by surprise - this was my only cancellation request during the current Seller evaluation period - and since they are so rare, I simply complied, issuing an immediate refund, and shrugged it off with "This was the Buyer's mistake, coroborated by 2 EBay messages admitting it". Surely, something like this wouldn't result in a Seller defect: Cancellation reason: The buyer asked to cancel the order, or there's an issue with the buyer's address. Seemed like better Customer Service to simply agree than allow it to rankle and escalate into some worse kind of Buyer claim later...especially since it was the result of nothing that I'd done wrong...in fact, nothing I did at all.

And yet, there it is today sticking its virtual tongue out at me in my Dashboard as a brand new year-till-gone Defect. So my question to other Sellers (and our hosts if they're lurking) is this: "Under EBay's new evaluation standards, is there a mechanism for handling a Cancellation Request due to the Buyer's mistake or change of mind that won't result in such defects?" If not, this is a very questionable metric to be pegging our selling reps on

.

BTW, my thanks to yourself Rose-Dee and all of the others who have been asking most of the questions I've had about the impact of the Fall Updates on Canadian Sellers. I've left a lot of Kudos in the dedicated board today, because you've all saved me a lot of time asking those same kinds of questions. However, most of those have focused on the Shipping and Tracking issues, not Cancellations, which I've just discovered first hand can be an equally inaccurate and destructive performance measure.

Going into the Christmas selling season, I want to add "Yikes!" but am trying to retain some kind of reasoned perspective.