ANDREA STAIRS ON THE HOUSE

[femmefan1946]

eBay Canada 's head was interviewed on Radio One this morning.

It will probably repeat later today if you missed it.

Seems eBay commissioned a report from the CDHowe Institute about the $20 maximum duty free on  imports.

Among other numbers tossed around, she said it cost CBSA $170 million to collect $40million on these low value imports.

She did NOT mention CBSAs practice of ignoring the low value imports entirely.

Now in my opinion you hire the company that will give you the results you want, but at least we know eBay is doing something for their buyers.

If not particularly for their Canadian sellers.

She also spoke briefly about the Canada Post disruption. I'll have to listen again for that or else it may show up on their website.

And, in passing, what do you think are the chances that the CDH report was shown to Neil MacDonald? The lapses in both interviews indicate a common source?

[momcqueen]

He did cite it. https://community.ebay.ca/t5/Buyer-Central/Why-The-Government-Keeps-Spoiling-Your-Online-Deals/td-p/...

"The study, released today after being peer-reviewed by the C.D. Howe Institute, was commissioned by eBay Canada, which has been lobbying Ottawa to raise its $20 threshold, known in the world of commerce as de minims."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/online-shopping-cross-border-duties-taxes-1.3647965

[pierrelebel]

Does anyone really trust any "study" coming from the pro-business extreme right CD Howe Institute?

I do not.

[pocomocomputing]

---

@pierrelebel wrote:

Does anyone really trust any "study" coming from the pro-business extreme right CD Howe Institute?

I do not.

---

Commissioned by eBay so even less credible.

[momcqueen]

Oh, I don't know. We are quick to criticize ebay for doing precious little but to put into motion a plan to lobby government for a higher de minimus is a smart idea for Canadian buyers. It doesn't help me as a seller but.... 

[pocomocomputing]

---

@mjwl2006 wrote:

Oh, I don't know. We are quick to criticize ebay for doing precious little but to put into motion a plan to lobby government for a higher de minimus is a smart idea for Canadian buyers. It doesn't help me as a seller but.... 

---

This is the same eBay Canada that made a study saying that listing in CAD is better than USD on eBay.ca Canada Site. Just claims of a study done with recommendations only. No details, no how it was done, no facts. The results could be twisted any way they want.

I would believe the CAD USD study more if more information was given. eBay Canada has no credibility for me, worse than eBay USA credibility.

[momcqueen]

Maybe I am alone in the crowd but I never doubted the findings of their CAD v USD study because it was what I learned from my own sales performance in switching to CAD from USD which is something I did long before they eliminated that line of recommendation on the listing form. 

[momcqueen]

I do get what you're saying though. If they really wanted to convince people, they needed to demonstrate hard and specific data. I don't think they can do that without showing too much of their hand to the marketplace. Online selling is competitive, after all. And The River is exceedingly tight-lipped about everything they do. 

[pierrelebel]

It is important to read the disclaimer on page 1 of the report:

"The views expressed in this article are those of the authors and not of Sidley Austin, LLP or any of

its clients. The authors would like to thank eBay Canada and the Global Express Association for

access to the data used in these papers; as well as Dan Ciuriak, the C.D. Howe Institute and several

reviewers, who wish to remain anonymous, for extremely helpful comments on earlier drafts. All

remaining errors are our own."

[momcqueen]

Can you cite your source for the report? I'd like to read it in its entirety. 

[pierrelebel · Accepted solution]

"Currently, Canada’s DMT of C$20 is among the lowest in the world, and indeed the lowest of any industrialized country"

And the survey goes to include some country such as Brunei $295, the USA $800. Peru $200, Malaysia $128.... but ignore Great Britain (£15) and most of Europe which averages about Cdn$25 or so - not that far away from Canada, and their VAT starts at 20% compared to Canada 5% to 15% depending on provinces)

So it is very obvious from the beginning that the survey is bias towards increasing the $20 limit and does not really care about being factual in its findings.  Once again this is the C D Howe Institute - it has no credibility in my book.

[pierrelebel]

The report (9 pages) directly from the CD Howe archives

https://www.cdhowe.org/sites/default/files/attachments/research_papers/mixed/E-brief_Rights%20of%20P...

[momcqueen]

Thanks.

[rose-dee · Accepted solution]

---

@pocomocomputing wrote:

---

@pierrelebel wrote:

Does anyone really trust any "study" coming from the pro-business extreme right CD Howe Institute?

I do not.

---

Commissioned by eBay so even less credible.

---

Yup, I'm with you on this.  

When I hear pronouncements like this from eBay, the cynicism metre turns on.  The first question I ask is "what is the real motive behind it?"  

Well, there is clearly one possibility: eBay's ill-conceived Global Shipping Programme has been an utter disaster, and the pressure has been put on Stairs by eBay HQ to "do something about it" up here.  That means that in order to convince Canadian buyers they might be able to come back at some point to buy from the U.S., eBay.ca must be seen to have commissioned a study (whether of real scientific value or not is irrelevant), presumably with the intention of taking it to Ottawa as a lobbying tool.  This is nothing but spin.  

What eBay needed to do long ago was recognize the real problem that enraged Canadian buyers -- those buyers knew from experience they usually did not have to pay GST/HST and postal charges on items coming from the U.S. that were under about $75 to $100.  I've had orders get through Scot free valued at $150.  

No, eBay wanted to skim money off every transaction they possibly could, meaning everything over $20.  I say this because I'm convinced eBay did not allow Pitney Bowes to capture all those fees for the past few years on all those Canadian purchases without expecting some sort of "commission" on the deal.  

EBay itself created this problem, not the CBSA.  So now eBay has realized they shot themselves in the foot, tsk, tsk, so sad.  Word got around amongst Canadian buyers who were burned by the GSP, and whoops, it's back-pedal time.  Must find a study that says the government is wasting money, a lot of money.  Must raise the import limit so eBay can continue to collect its share of the take.  This is so transparent it's LOL laughable. 

Gee, poor little Andrea, sent out by HQ to sell the new spin. 

[marnotom!]

---

@rose-dee wrote:

No, eBay wanted to skim money off every transaction they possibly could, meaning everything over $20.  I say this because I'm convinced eBay did not allow Pitney Bowes to capture all those fees for the past few years on all those Canadian purchases without expecting some sort of "commission" on the deal.  

---

I seem to recall that in the early days of the GSP,  eBay and Pitney Bowes were reasonably up-front about the fact that part of the "import charges" went towards a finder's fee of sorts for eBay.

If a "finder's fee" of sorts still comes out of the import charges, it can't be all that large on a per-transaction basis.

[marnotom!]

---

@femmefan1946 wrote:

Among other numbers tossed around, she said it cost CBSA $170 million to collect $40million on these low value imports.

---

Another way of looking at the money spent by CBSA on collecting taxes is that it also goes toward keeping Canadian dollars in Canada, both taxes and consumer spending.

[rose-dee]

---

@femmefan1946 wrote:

....but at least we know eBay is doing something for their buyers.

---

I really don't think so.  I think eBay, as usual, is doing something for itself, albeit very clumsily.  I think they must be losing a ton of money from Canadian buyers in particular who got wise to the unnecessary GSP tax/fee grab and stopped buying from U.S. eBay sellers.  

The fact that they sent Stairs out to talk to the CBC, while waving around a spurious "study", tells me they're in minor panic mode over this.  

EBay is probably hoping enough Canadian buyers will hear this programme -- and believe it -- that they'll pressure the federal government to change the import level.  However, most Canadians understood very well that there was no problem (with USPS deliveries) until eBay intervened with its GSP.  

Somehow this whole dog-and-pony show sounds to me like a very American idea. 

[pierrelebel · Accepted solution]

Anyone taking the time to properly analyze the study by the C D Howe Institute will quickly realize that they failed to take into account:

1) taxes paid by businesses is refunded to businesses through ITCs (there is no net tax savings for corporations)

2) no mention of negative effect on Canadian businesses involved in mail order who must - by law - remit GST/HST (based on province of buyer) becoming less competitive when having to face American sellers supplying the same products but without having to charge tax to Canadian buyers - an obvious incentive to Canadian online buyers to shop outside Canada (let alone the fact - as we all know - that shipping charges from the USA are often lower than within Canada).

3) the loss of employment by Canadian retail workers.  Every additional dollar spent on purchases from the USA as a result of higher postal import tax exemption, is a dollar that will not pay the salary of a Canadian retail worker.

Do not expect the C D Howe Institute to ever look for what is best for Canadians.  Than is not their mandate.  All they want is more profit for big businesses (regardless who owns them) and lower corporate taxes.

eBay is their perfect member: large American owned corporation, operating in Canada and paying zero corporate tax to Canada.

[marnotom!]

---

@pierrelebel wrote:

eBay is their perfect member: large American owned corporation, operating in Canada and paying zero corporate tax to Canada.

---

And eBay Canada employs, what?  Ten people or so now?

[rose-dee]

---

@marnotom! wrote:

I seem to recall that in the early days of the GSP,  eBay and Pitney Bowes were reasonably up-front about the fact that part of the "import charges" went towards a finder's fee of sorts for eBay.

I can't honestly say I ever heard this, but Pierre might remember.  

If a "finder's fee" of sorts still comes out of the import charges, it can't be all that large on a per-transaction basis.

It isn't the per transaction rate that's important, but the volume.  Even at a very low fee of 2% of the Pitney Bowes fee, multiplied by thousands per week or month, there is serious cash involved.  And what I glean from the performance on CBC by Andrea Stairs is that Canadian buyer volume is way down due to the GSP.  

The reason I am so jaded about eBay is that I no longer have any trust in their bona fides.  If their motive was to simply help Canadian buyers, and if they truly wanted those buyers to come back, instead of this ridiculous ruse they could have dropped the GSP long ago (or at least made sales to Canada exempt).  

The fact that they didn't do so says a lot about how much money they must have been making off Canadian buyers through the Pitney Bowes "commissions".