eBay

wsdcoins · ‎05-04-2013

Hey guys,

Was wondering if I can get some help here.

A couple months ago I've had this buyer "westernintense" who made a purchased a "Buy it now" from me, and then threatened to leave me negative feedback unless I send him the item in a cheap lettermail package.

However I stated I do not offer such option as its not stated in my listing and I will only ship by what I have stated which is an insured trackable method which costs more.

The buyer then left the negative feedback and didn't pay.

I tried getting ebay to remove the negative feedback but they said it doesn't break any rules, which is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. But eventually the buyer didn't pay so when the case closed, the buyer's neg got removed.

He then threatened to send his buddies over to attack my account.

What do you know? A week later a buyer by the name of galewis2011 buys the exact same item from me, doesn't contact me or anything, but pays. When I print the shipping label and he gets a notification that the package has been shipped, he leaves me a neg saying "worst transaction ever, buyer beware", he never contacted me, and I printed the label 48 hours of the purchase.

I called eBay and they said there's nothing wrong with it and they can't do anything. I asked for the transaction to be cancelled so I don't have to ship because I knew this was leading to a scam. eBay said I MUST ship or they will have a case against me for not shipping. So I go ahead and ship the item.

Again, what do you know? A week later after delivery confirmation, the buyer galewis2011 claims "The box was empty" and opens a paypal dispute.

I provided paypal with pictures of the packed box with the item in it, shipping label, tracking number, and delivery confirmation.

Here's where it gets interesting

Another week goes by, and the buyer changes the story to "The items condition is different from what he was expecting"

How can he go from a "He received an empty box" to a "condition is different". And there's no way the condition is any different, I am shipping brand new uncirculated coins that I received directly from the royal canadian mint to the buyer with no differences from the pictures that I had posted.

What happens another week later...Paypal decides in the favour of the buyer and asks him to send me the item back.

How is this even possible when there's so many indications that the buyer is doing nothing but scamming me here?

So the buyer ships out a package and provided paypal with a tracking number, and as soon as the tracking number was provided, Paypal refunded the buyer, without any delivery confirmation or what so ever. But in the paypal dispute they stated they confirmed delivery? WTF? Tracking number shows in transit??

So another week goes by and I still haven't received the item...I check the tracking number and it says destination is Edmonton, Alberta....I'm here in Toronto, Ontario!!! The last status read on the trakcing number is

"Item arrived at the Undeliverable Mail Office. Please contact Cust Service"

So this guy sends back a fake package to a fake address?

Honestly, is paypal just this stupid or am I missing something here? Do I have no recourse against this?

This is the worst experience I've witnessed, and the fact that idiots like this exist in our world makes me sad.

ggsale27 · ‎05-04-2013

All I can say is, WOW !!! Just goes to show that there is no such thing as seller protection at all.

rafael.xavier · ‎05-04-2013

Your buyer is a nutcase. If you are worried about your safety, call the police and press harassment and theft charges.

loulottshobbytoy · ‎05-04-2013

An eye for an eye a tooth for a tooth...that all you can do if you wish too

wsdcoins · ‎05-04-2013

I left him a negative feedback comment as a seller by clicking positive feedback and actually writing what I had to, and he reports to ebay who instantly removed it and gave me an infraction.

This is total insanity, I paid eBay over $400 in fees last month, and get this in return...

pierrelebel · ‎05-04-2013

"This comment has been removed by eBay. Learn more."

That is because sellers are NOT allowed to leave positive feedback for buyers with a negative comments. The rules have been the same for years.

Learn more: http://pages.ebay.ca/help/policies/feedback-removal.html

pjcdn2005 · ‎05-04-2013

You should phone Paypal and get them to look at the tracking number so that they can see that it was not sent to you or delivered to you..

pjcdn2005 · ‎05-04-2013

Your original buyer should not have purchased the item if he did not like the shipping price and it was wrong of him to expect you to change your shipping method.

However, unless you have an item that is not available anywhere else, people generally will not pay $13 for shipping a $25 purchase. Or if they do pay it, they may not be happy about it and can express that unhappiness on your DSR's.

If you search for that coin on ebay there are quite a few for sale and the majority have shipping under $4 so its odd that the buyer wouldn't have purchased from those people. So, in this case, that buyer may have scammed you if you had sent the coin by lettermail. He has private feedback so that always makes me nervous. But...I honestly do believe that most buyers are honest and that it is rare for a $20 item to get "lost" when sent by the cheapest method possible.

It's really up to you how much risk you want to take but sometimes it is the difference between not selling an item or selling it and taking a small risk when you ship it. Many sellers self-insure so in their shipping or item price, they include a small amount that is literally put in a cookie jar for those times that an item does get lost.

I do think the more expensive shipping methods are a good idea for your more expensive items.

rafael.xavier · ‎05-04-2013

I doubt they can take report by phone, police always deals in person. If your customer is threatening you, your local PD should at least document your complaint. Btw. are you 100% sure the two incidents are related ?

After you filed with your local PD, ask St Alberts PD to give him that call they offered. Even better if they can stop by and talk to him in person, may help to avoid further harassment. Also try to get a copy of the report and forward it to PayPal, if they did not follow own procedure, they just may rectify this for you.

wsdcoins · ‎05-04-2013

pjcdn2005:

That is what I don't understand, why are you buying from me if you don't like my shipping method? On top of that, actually simply just threatening to leave negative feedback if I don't give in to your demands.

In terms of the item. It's a $20 coin, which I can cash in at any bank for $20 (I've done this), so when I'm selling it for $25, after eBay fees I'm left with $22.50, after paypal fees I'm left with $1.50. Envelope/box costs $1. So left with profit of $0.50

It costs anywhere from $10-15 to ship "expedited parcel" which has tracking, signature and $100 of insurance. In this instance it cost around $12.90.

My main purpose of selling this coin was just to gain feedback, but buyers like this essentially destroyed my rep.

Also, in the majority of cases, buyers purchased these in quantities of 10. So the shipping divided out over the coins.

Considering this buyer left a negative feedback without even contacting me and minutes after I printed his label, and then again filed a dispute are clear signs his intentions were always to scam.

As for shipping on more expensive items, I'm sure you know Canada post only insures bullion and collectible coin items up to a max of $500, so even that is useless.

If he left me a low DSR it would understand, and I wouldn't have any complaints, but this is simply a scam and I cannot believe both ebay and paypal are siding with the buyer.

Has there ever been a case where paypal/ebay side with the seller?

As for calling Paypal...the only options I can appeal with are:

"Buyer sent me item in different condition"

"I already refunded buyer"

"I can provide a tracking number"

I tried calling and they insist I have to do it online and the trust and safety department is closed.

wsdcoins · ‎05-04-2013

rafael,

I've actually filed a police report over the phone in the past for a stolen phone, so its definitely possible.

As for the threats, police said because its not assault or battery, its considered a civil case.

rehautala · ‎05-04-2013

Be persistent with Paypal. They took the easy road and told the buyer to send it back.

There must be a mechanism in place to ensure the item actually gets back to you before they refund the money.

The tracking number should indicate the address it was sent to. Try to contact the Post Office and get the package sent to you. Tell them the story. Ask them for the name on the package and the address. If you get it back, odds are good it will be empty. Again, more evidence of buyer fraud. They never in fact sent you the item.

Based on the story this user has told you (empty box - not as described), they can be reported to Ebay as well for abuse and feedback extortion.

I would continue to investigate and follow your options. Be persistent with Ebay as well.

In my dealings with Paypal and Ebay, I have always had decent resolutions. Don't give up, the seller protection is SUPPOSED to be there.

pierrelebel · ‎05-05-2013

" It's a $20 coin, which I can cash in at any bank for $20 (I've done this), so when I'm selling it for $25, after eBay fees I'm left with $22.50, after paypal fees I'm left with $1.50. Envelope/box costs $1. So left with profit of $0.50

It costs anywhere from $10-15 to ship "expedited parcel" which has tracking, signature and $100 of insurance. In this instance it cost around $12.90.

My main purpose of selling this coin was just to gain feedback, but buyers like this essentially destroyed my rep. '

I am very confused.

The listing shows you sold most of these $20 coins for $20 (not $25), assuring you of a loss of $4 per item after taking eBay/PayPal fees into account. Why? To build feedback? Selling them in multiples on ten defeats that purpose.

Even the listing clearly states you are selling them for $20, not $25 "$20 for $20". The price change from $20 to $25 was made on March 26th once you were running out of them.

Why not ship these coins through regular lettermail with a stamp costing only $1.10 for 50g instead of asking $13 for "Standard Shipping"?

Afraid of being ripped off? You were ripped off in any case. Wasting so much money in shipping/tracking/insurance for a $20 item is not good business practice.

And do not expect the police to be involved in a civil dispute for $20. That is not their job.

Sorry you lost $20 in this case but that experience may be valuable to set up your business using different policies.

I am also puzzled by your listing 151034055095 . What is the purpose of that listing?

pierrelebel · ‎05-05-2013

"but buyers like this essentially destroyed my rep. "

I would not worry too much about one negative feedback. That by itself does not "destroy" one's reputation. Most experienced sellers on eBay have received negative feedback at one time or another.

How a seller responds to negative feedback may have more influence on his reputation that the negative feedback itself.

Finally, low DSRs on "shipping charge" may have more influence than anything else as they may limit your ability to sell on eBay.

A final comment on the "wolf" coin. The mint is still selling them at $20 with a reasonable $2.99 shipping charge. Why would anyone buy them on eBay for more? although some are offered at auction for less!