I Don't File Feedback For Buyer Right Away-There Is No Way To Report Buyer

[tigergirl1]

I'm having a very bad event right now where a buyer bought a top from me. Several weeks went by without hearing from them, implying everything was OK.  Now Buyer is saying item is not as described, says he does not see any Eileen Fisher label, or size label.  Threatens to take it up with eBay. 

Firstly, this is a man, who says the top is a small not a large.  Eileen Fisher tag says Large, if this man is trying to wear a woman's top, no wonder he finds it a bit small.  Secondly, not only are the genuine Eileen Fisher label and tags on the garment, as I bought it from Holt Renfrew, the sales tag was also on it.  I have photos of all of this, and the original sales slip from Holt Renfrew. 

Since in one of the other threads, it was suggested to me that I file feedback as soon as a buyer buys something, I now have no way of using the Report A Problem Buyer icon, since the item has disappeared out of my Feedback page.

In all my listings, I clearly show No Returns.  This is perfectly allowable by eBay as long as the item is properly described.

I do not want to take the item back (heaven knows where it has been), and I don't want to refund.  I haven't done anything wrong.  I sent the Buyer a polite email saying perhaps he has mistaken another purchased item for mine and asking him to verify.  I pointed out I have photos of all the tags, and the original invoice. 

Is there anything else I can do?  Can I Report this buyer as a problem, or possible scammer?

This is very upsetting for me.  Thanks.  Kathy

[pjcdn2005]

There are a few places that have the report a buyer link including the top of your feedback page, your dashboard & resolution center. It doesn't matter if you have left feedback for the buyer or not.

Is this for the Eileen Fisher top sold on March 25th? If so, that buyer is in the U.S. and it's quite possible they just received the top since it has been about 10 days since purchase. You did say several weeks though so perhaps I am looking at the wrong item. If it is that buyer, I don't see any red flags in their feedback suggesting that they are habitual complainers.

I don't think that you have any reason at this point to report them, there is no evidence to suggest that they are trying to scam you and report a buyer doesn't mean report buyers that aren't happy with their purchase. I realize that you don't take returns but the easiest thing imo would be to tell them to return it for refund. If they did have it for weeks, I might not do that but if it was sold last week, it's unlikely that they bought it just to wear it for a specific event. If they file a claim then there is a chance that they will win so you will end up refunding upon return anyway and your buyer might be unhappy if they felt forced to file a claim.

If it is that top,I see just one measurement in the listing and since sizes can vary so much, that might be part of the problem.

[pierrelebel]

"In all my listings, I clearly show No Returns.  This is perfectly allowable by eBay as long as the item is properly described."

Those are your terms.

However, if the buyer pays through PayPal (and most do) you are bound by PayPal terms.  And yes a buyer has the right to return for refund if the item is "not as described" in the buyer's opinion.

There is nothing to report here.  The buyer has done nothing wrong but follow exactly what eBay/PayPal tell all buyers to do:

http://pages.ebay.com/help/buy/protection-programs.html 

[pierrelebel]

"I sent the Buyer a polite email saying perhaps he has mistaken another purchased item for mine and asking him to verify. "

Whenever a customer indicates that the item received is not satisfactory, whatever the reason, I never ever suggest the mistake may have been made by the buyer. 

I apologize for the item not meeting his/her expectations and advise to return the item for a full refund (including shipping) upon receipt.

It does not matter if the buyer is right or wrong, handling returns it is a cost of doing business.

It is always preferable for a seller to be proactive than to wait for the buyer to file a claim with PayPal.  The results are the same (refund) but the lower level of customer satisfaction when forced to file a claim may result in neutral or negative feedback.  No seller wants that. 

[cbsalesnb]

This is very upsetting for me

Hi Kathy, I have read a couple of your notes now and I wanted to give you some general advice. As long as you are selling on Ebay, you are going to have to deal with returns occasionally, and some of them will be unjustified. Assume right up front that this will happen once in a while and count it as a cost of doing business on Ebay.

Do what you can to mitigate the risk of this happening, but don't stress over it when it does. The one negative I have in my feedback was extremely unjustified, but there's nothing I can do about it so I won't let it get to me.

If you don't accept this up front, you're in for a very stressful rollercoaster ride. I don't sell clothing, but I hear it can be a really bad category for this sort of behaviour. Some people try something on, and decide that they simply don't like it, then do everything in their power, including lying and cheating, to get their money back.

Honestly, if you have an open return policy, you'll find that the occasionaly return may still be a positive experience. (Even if you may lose a few bucks on that transaction) People see your no return policy and resort to "Other means" to get their money back.

[rose-dee]

I do not want to take the item back (heaven knows where it has been), and I don't want to refund.  I haven't done anything wrong. 

Is there anything else I can do?  Can I Report this buyer as a problem, or possible scammer?

Hi Kathy -- In this situation, even though your listing did state "no returns", I would tell the buyer I was sorry to hear he was unhappy with the item, but I'll refund his purchase price upon return of the top.  You can decide whether to refund his shipping as well -- if it's important to you to avoid bad FB from this buyer, I'd do it.  I wouldn't necessarily assume the buyer is trying to scam you, probably just didn't read the description well enough.

Selling clothing can be a tricky business on eBay.  Those who haven't done it often don't realize the potential for subjective issues by buyers.  I know a few vintage clothing sellers who have given up on eBay for that reason.  Unfortunately, you're not likely to succeed if a buyer files a "Not as Described" claim, and it will just create more stress for you.  I'd say in this instance, make an exception, be nice as pie to the buyer, get the top back and refund.  Even if you have to dry-clean the top before re-selling, it's better than getting into an imbroglio. 

You could consider changing your return policy -- as long as your descriptions are clear and thorough, I doubt you'll have to deal with very many returns.  I sell clothing and have a 30-day return policy (it used to be 14).  I haven't yet had a return in several years of selling on eBay.  The reason I set my returns at 30 days is because I feel someone who is truly dissatisfied will request a refund quickly, whereas someone who may just not quite like the shade of red, etc., realizing they have a month to act, will probably forget to follow through.  It's the old story -- the more time, the longer the procrastination! 

One tip that might help when selling clothing: I don't know whether you do this, but I always physically measure the item (usually flat on a table) and clearly state that the buyer should check the actual measurements, not go by the size label.  It's a common misconception that clothing sizing is universal -- there can be huge differences depending on the country, decade and manufacturer. 

At any rate, I agree with what "cbsalesnb" has said -- this isn't worth letting yourself become upset over.  I always think of companies like Sears who take everything back, for whatever reason.  People are so used to this idea, and do expect it everywhere now, so I'd just make the buyer happy, and I think it will all turn out well in the end.

[ricarmic]

Hi! I also suggest you drop the "no returns" policy. As Pierre pointed out it doesn't matter anyway all they have to do is say it wasn't as described when they pay via PAYPAL and they get their money back (the same concept is true for "insurance" one can't really say that they aren't covered if it isn't insured as again PAYPAL gives them the $$$ back if they don't get it anyway). This is a grin and bear it kind of situation.

You should build the cost of problem customers like this into your price, which I know may be a challenge in your category.

The most important thing is to not take this stuff personally, think of it as a business and problem customers (and related costs) are part of running a business. They may talk personal but if you sell enough stuff, unless you are extremely lucky you're going to get folks like this from time to time. At least you only have to deal with emails, if we were back in the olden days where you had your own store you'd have to deal with folks like this face to face which is even worse! (I had some good friends in my field with stores and they had lots of stories to tell!!!) It doesn't really matter who is right, the customer in their own mind believe they are right, so that is all that matters in the end.....

I've been selling for 35 years and I've had more "problem customers" of all types in the last year than the last 35......as in bouncing cheques, or PAYPAL payments etc. Buyers seem to be learning how to take advantage of the buyer friendly rules in eBay, so the incidence rate of this is likely going to increase over the next while...

Hang in there and think about the other 99%+ that appreciate what you do!!!!

[tigergirl1]

Hi,

Thanks for your nice message.  Yes, it is important not to take this stuff personally, and unfortunately, I do, and I'm easily hurt.

I don't know if you read one of my earlier posts - I think it is in the Feedback and how to get it thread - but the main reason I don't want returns is because I'm trying to sell everything and get it out of the house before it is too late (serious illness).  In the past, I've also had cases where I took a return and the item came back worn, smelly and disgusting. 

I would like to build the cost of problem customers into my prices, but in quite a number of cases, after I've paid the eBay/PayPal fees and commissions, the gas to go to the post office, the shipping tape and envelope, etc. etc.  I've actually ended up getting no money for myself out of the sale.

The person who bought this top has admitted, after reading that I have photos of the tags etc., that he/she was wrong and made a mistake.  That was good.  I think, from the last bizarre messages he/she sent, that the person has a mental problem.

Yes, you are right - eBay has very buyer-friendly rules and not much seller support.  I still have too much PTSD (post traumatic stress) to open a boutique in my basement and let strangers into my house, so my only choice is eBay.  I did pay two different people to create web stores for me, but they did not do what was required to plug my web site into Google, so no one ever found my stores.

So I'm back to eBay, except for my 3,000 books, which I have listed on ABE Books.

Thanks. and thanks for the encouragement.  Sometimes it gets very lonely and discouraging here.

[ricarmic]

Hi! Yep I saw the reasons why you don't want to do returns (none of us do 🙂 ) but unfortunately, especially with "used" stuff and the way ebayland and people work, you're going to end up having to deal with it.

I think I mentioned (and Pierre and others maybe too) in a separate thread that it is very important to understand your "cost of goods sold" - this includes the original cost, the cost of the ebay, paypal fees, shipping supplies and costs, returns/MIA lots etc. Once you know the costs above the original purchase price (I understand you are selling your own stuff so in your case this is a relative term) you'll know how much you have to charge to make a profit or at least break even. If that price is higher than you can realistically sell the material for then you'll have to search out another venue that lowers your selling costs.

I am not well versed in your category, but in mine, I have a range of folks who are selling for fun, or to raise funds to buy more material to those like me who are trying to make a living wage selling the same stuff. I suspect yours is probably the same in this respect so it means you have folks who don't care if they are really making a profit selling at a lower price than you can if you are trying to turn a profit.

One comment on the price, I know for certain that I am not the cheapest source for much of the stuff I sell, however I do still sell it, so I suspect that focusing on price is not the only way to approach. I do believe that my consistency, customer service and attention is higher than some of my competitors and I firmly believe that some of my regular customers stick with me because of that, as opposed to simply being cost focused.

Hopefully some of this is useful info, and that you have a great weekend!

[tigergirl1]

Hi ricarmic,

Yes, you are right about cost of goods sold, and searching out another venue to sell.  Donating and getting a tax receipt is of no use to me, except for the satisfaction of donating.  Having a garage sale is like death.  Letting strangers into my house can be unsafe or a nuisance.

For my vintage and "used" items, if I can come out ahead without losing any money, I accept it.  For my brand new items, even though I bought them for myself, and especially the expensive designer items, I don't want to lose money on them.  Luckily, those items sell at an appropriate price, even if they take a while to sell.

As pierrelebel said, I have some items that are listed at around $12 or $14 and have been listed for a year or more (at $2.40 eBay fees per year).  He wrote: Is it worth it to still have these items listed?  Good question.  Sometimes I will be thinking about taking an item off eBay and all of a sudden it will sell - this just happened three times in the past few weeks.  It is hard to know what people will want, and when.

I'm also not sure if I have too many categories, i.e. too much variety, in my eBay store.  I have lots of collectible and antique items (not clothes) that I haven't even listed yet.  But if I don't list the shoes, for example, I have no chance of selling them, and they take up a lot of room on the shelves.  So I don't really want to stop listing shoes. etc.

Anyway, sorry to take time to share my thoughts with you.  It may sound like I'm rambling, but I have no one else to bounce anything off, i.e. discuss things with.

Thanks so much and you have a great weekend too.  A stranger is coming to buy my sofa (already 2 hours late) and with no neighbours and no one that can come, I'm always nervous about my safety.

[ricarmic]

One suggestion regarding the cost of carrying items on a per item basis - I like to think of these "old school" way - ie if you are running 100 items each month for a year, think of it as $20 per month of "advertising" cost - instead of on a per item basis. Use the monthly number of $20 of "advertising" cost to figure into your cost of goods sold, instead of trying to figure the average number of months it takes something to sell. 

This was a help to me a few years ago when I converted to this way of thinking. I am a firm believer that the more items you have, the more people that come by. So the item that sold and ran for only one month may have actually been sold because of the person first noticed (but may have not purchased) the item you have been running for over a year now that cost you $2.40 or so to run for the last year...... I have had stuff sell that has been listed for more than 5 years so I totally agree with you have to have the right person notice it at the right time!!!

It may make your costs easier to understand, track and record if you think of the store/listing fees on an amount figured against your monthly average sales instead of a per item basis?

(PS I think the same thing for small items vs large - I hate the work involved in selling a $11.92 item compared to a $315.92 item, however I also believe that the $11.92 items sometimes catch the attention of folks who ultimately purchase the $315.92 items....and the $2.40 seems a lot worse against a $11.92 item than the $315.92 item unless it really was the case that the $315.92 sale happened because the person first bought or saw the $11.92 thing. Looking at the listing costs as "advertising" helps in this respect too)

[tigergirl1]

Hi,

These are excellent suggestions, thank you.  I'll re-read them carefully after I take a break.

The man for the sofa showed up (2 1/2 hours late but anyway) and took the sofa, I did some slow clean-up to put the rooms back together, must take a break.

I'm so happy-y-y - got rid of the huge sofa bed and its two ottomans and 4 huge cushions, and wasn't assaulted.  Wasn't able to go and call Bingo for the nursing home though (he only just left).

Have a great day.  Kathy

[femmefan1946]

I realize that you don't take returns but the easiest thing imo would be to tell them to return it for refund.

I agree that "No Returns" is a losing proposition. If you take Paypal you take returns. The only difference is that if you state "No Returns" some potentials buyers will move on, not wanting to have an argument.

In the past, I've also had cases where I took a return and the item came back worn, smelly and disgusting.

Yes. That can happen. Was that once out of 10 sales? Ten times out of 1000 sales? You can't focus on the downside.

Donating and getting a tax receipt is of no use to me, except for the satisfaction of donating.
Can Canadians even get tax receipts for donating personal goods to a charity? Americans can. If we can, my retirement plan just got a little richer!

Letting strangers into my house can be unsafe or a nuisance.
It won't work for a couch, of course, but if you are selling on Kijiji or CL, you could set the meet for Tim Horton's. Less stressful, perhaps.  Since you are at a particular place at a particular time, it also encourages the buyer to meet the appointment.

and especially the expensive designer items, I don't want to lose money on them.
But you will. You have to focus on your goal.

What you are trying to do is turn goods which you can't use, into cash which you can. As quickly as possible. It's like a brand new car. The moment you drive it off the lot, it drops in value.
In my opinion, you should not be pricing your NWTs items any higher than 90% of purchase price including the postage you have to charge. EBay is a place where people go for bargains. Full price is not a bargain.  Have you looked at The Moon or The Ranch which allow you to transfer your eBay listing with a click of a button? Or perhaps The Red Road which deals in high end fixed price items, but requires manual listing.

How are your book sales on ABE? I know Amazon.ca is a pain to deal with, especially if your books do not have ISBN numbers.

Your postings are very useful, both for us oldtimers to clear our heads, and for your fellow newbies, who may not have fully considered some of their practices.

Keep talking.

[pierrelebel]

You can't focus on the downside.

You can't focus on the downside.

You can't focus on the downside.

You can't focus on the downside.

You can't focus on the downside.

I wish more sellers, mostly newcomers or those without prior experience in mail order, would realize the importance of that message.

Too much emphasis is put on problems, challenges and difficulties appearing on these boards. Time to look at the millions of transactions that go smoothly. 🙂

[tigergirl1]

Hi femmefan1946,

I think there is a typo after 'easiest thing' in your first line, and I've been trying to guess the word but haven't come up with it yet.  Anyway, it doesn't detract from your intended meaning.  Luckily, I have never had the Returns policy of PayPal tested with any of my items.  I've had a few international buyers who got impatient, despite my mentioning in my thank you emails to them that since they had chosen surface mail it would take a long time to get to them, and they filed an Item Not Received claim with PayPal.

By the way, if these claims are made by international buyers, they are usually made with PayPal in another country, and you, the seller, will get messages in the language of that country.  I had quite a frustrating time with a claim from a person in Germany and one in Russia, both who didn't receive their item after 3 weeks, when I had told them Canada Post stated 6 to 10 weeks for surface, roughly.  Luckily, I had my International shipping papers, and before too much time went by after they made their claims, their items arrived and they were very happy with them.   I have found a translating service on the computer and if I'm desperate, I will write my message in english, have it translated, and email it to the buyer and PayPal in the foreign country.

Yes, you and pierrelebel are right, we can't always focus on the downside.  I do find though, that sometimes Canadians (we sellers) err on the side of being too polite and friendly (I don't mean this in a bad way 🙂 )  whereas Americans tend to demand refund/money/or write rudely or in an insulting way and they don't care how impolite it is or how unfriendly it is.  This is why USA is more litigious than Canada.

I believe Canadians can get tax receipts for donated clothing etc. - there are few places in Ottawa that were advertising, or were featured, on CTV Ottawa and they stated that.  I'm not 100% sure though, since I've never tried it out.

Yes, that is very true, if I have a smaller item, I will meet at a fast food place, etc.  I never ever get into any one else's car.

Believe it or not, with the expensive designer items, so far I've recouped the money I spent and sometimes even more.  Most of the items are Limited Editions, and even though there may be die-hard "fashionistas" who follow the fashion seasons, there are others who wanted something from another year/season and missed it and really want to get it. 

It has been a bit more difficult with my designer shoes, some of which are very expensive (bought by me when I had my job in a moment of insanity, then I was injured and never took them out of the box)(plus the ladies at Holt Renfrew were SO nice, the more expensive the item, and I was going through really bad work harassment at the time and needed a friendly face).  There is the matter of size, heel height, etc.  Luckily, my feet are average size 8 or 7.

I was thinking - regarding returns, I think I will offer a return policy on items that are vintage (older, not new with the tags on), and that I don't care how they look if they are returned, I can always donate them.  I believe that each Sell Your Item form allows one to choose Returns or No Returns for that item only, not for the entire store.

It is very hard selling things that are all my personal possessions, many of which have sentimental value.  Being alone, I have no one to focus an unbiased eye on price or item, and I'm now realizing that I'm holding on to some items for too long, hoping they will sell.  This is great as long as it is economically viable, but when the eBay fees add up to more than the item is worth, it is time to cut my losses on that item, I guess.

I tried etsy because I obtained my graduate jeweller degree and gemsetter degree and made a lot of jewellery, and leather items.  I didn't have much luck at all on etsy.

My book sales on ABE are good, not great.  I was with Choosebooks before, which had really good customer (booksellers are their customers) support, but then they started charging a monthly fee, and I didn't really sell a lot with them anyway, so I switched to ABE.  I have picked the option whereby I pay ABE a monthly fee, and this is not always good.  If I don't sell enough in the month, ABE deducts or charges me about $35 US per month, and sometimes I haven't sold any books in the entire month, meaning I paid ABE a straight $35 without any revenue.  I'm also a bookseller on biblio.com, which does not charge a monthly fee, and is very easy to deal with as a bookseller, but I don't sell anywhere near the number of books with them.

I don't know if I'm a newbie - I've been selling on eBay since almost the first year they started - I think they started in 1998 and I joined in 1999.  I had many years where I had very few or no items listed for sale due to medical reasons.  I did buy a few items in the first year, and was so cheated by fakes and garbage items, that I stopped and haven't bought anything since.  I agree though that there have been large improvements in buyer safety on eBay now.  eBay and also Chanel, Gucci, Louis Vuitton, etc. review listings for designer goods and if they are fakes the listings are pulled.  This did not happen back in 1999.

I agree with pierrelebel that problems, difficulties etc. appear on these boards, but these Forums are, as far as I understand it, a way for sellers to ask questions and put forth issues seeking to obtain suggestions and help from other Forum users.

Regarding selling costs, I have prepared a master spreadsheet where I keep a record of sold price, costs, fees, postage, etc.  By the way, did you know that when you sell an item, eBay only shows you your listing fee (I have a store so I pay a monthly listing fee per item) for the previous four months only.  This is why every time I list or update an item, I record it in my computer.  Sometimes I've paid way more fees than they show me in the $0.80 that covers the three months.  Especially if I've had an item listed for a year or two.  (It may sound weird to list an item for a year or more, but it used to be 3 cents per listing and you never know when a buyer may come along.)

Thanks so much for your encouragement and help.

[pjcdn2005]

I think there is a typo after 'easiest thing' in your first line, and I've been trying to guess the word but haven't come up with it yet.

Femme was quoting what i said in the first post...imo means "in my opinion"

Sorry for the confusion.

By the way, did you know that when you sell an item, eBay only shows you your listing fee (I have a store so I pay a monthly listing fee per item) for the previous four months only. This is why every time I list or update an item, I record it in my computer.  Sometimes I've paid way more fees than they show me in the $0.80 that covers the three months.

If you go into your seller account through your my ebay page, there is an area on the right that allows you to see and download invoices from the last 18 months. Where are you looking at them for a 3 or 4 month period?

[pjcdn2005]

Yes, you and pierrelebel are right, we can't always focus on the downside.  I do find though, that sometimes Canadians (we sellers) err on the side of being too polite and friendly (I don't mean this in a bad way )  whereas Americans tend to demand refund/money/or write rudely or in an insulting way and they don't care how impolite it is or how unfriendly it is.  This is why USA is more litigious than Canada.

There are rude Americans just as there are rude Canadians. Honestly I think that some people just have no knowledge about how to communicate.

I agree with pierrelebel that problems, difficulties etc. appear on these boards, but these Forums are, as far as I understand it, a way for sellers to ask questions and put forth issues seeking to obtain suggestions and help from other Forum users.

I agree. However there are people who come here only to complain and make generalizations about buyers and/or ebay. Those people don't come for advice or to give advice.

[brandeentertainment]

You love animals so why not get a nice big rotty to be your friend and protect you .. I have one and man it is the nicest dog I have ever had and it liek my kids horse and pony ride toy LOL..

I've read all your post so I know why your scared but I also know you love animals Maybe you need a best friend to protect you and make you feel safer

[tigergirl1]

Hi,

Well you are certainly right about rudeness.  I just lost one of my valuable positive feedback points due to a buyer's comments on an item that they didn't even buy from me, and their feedback comments don't even make sense.  I sold a box of brand new wax, made in USA, did not have Chinese instructions, did not use power hence no adapter needed.  Oh man, I'm discouraged.

I bust my rear trying to get positive feedback, and then I get this.  This buyer never once contacted me, but it wouldn't matter because they are obviously commenting on a completely different item, and don't care about hurting my feedback score.

If a buyer files negative feedback that is obviously not for a seller's item, can the seller get it removed?????

[tigergirl1]

I'm talking about my item 120855492852, 2 pounds of wax and gloves, brand new as shown in my photo, made by Revlon USA.  You put some wax in a hot wax machine, melt it and it makes your hands softer.  The wax uses no power, and does not come with Chinese instructions!!!!!