eBay

ut.babe · ‎09-02-2013

Another thread on the GSP but the more the merrier.... maybe they will get the message. These comments are based on my own experience and opinions.

I purchased a figurine that arrived with minimal packing material and single boxed. I asked the seller how he had packaged it ... he said it was in its original manufacturers box, double boxed with lots of packaing. He was shocked to hear it arrived in a single box - the manufacturers box was missing - and minimal packing.

Upon complaint, ebay (Paypal) answer was to refund me the SELLERS shipping cost, not Pitney Bowes (the GSP provider they use), thereby stinging the seller who was in no way responsible.

Another item was switched from a box to an envelope. Thank heavens it was unbreakable.

Also, 98% of the items I buy cross-border (I'm in Canada) would not even be valued for customs duty, their price is too low. Yet the GSP charges it anyway.

My guess and opinion? Pitney Bowes is repackaging items to lower the weight and the end cost of their shipping, plus pocketing the excessive customs duties. What other reason for repackaging items?

Plus you pay for the seller to ship to them, and then for them to ship to the buyer. AND you often have to purchase before knowing the end cost - is that even legal? And then you are on the hook for the item anyway.

The only people happy with this is Pitney Bowes - they are getting rich off this unbelievable scam. I will not use them for anything ever, and have in fact chosen to not use them for my business either. I have returned all the shipping equipment I had from them and refuse to deal with them on any level.

I WILL NOT PURCHASE FROM SELLERS USING THE GSP PROGRAM... EVER. I'd rather do without.

Many times when I explain why I'd love to buy from them but don't the seller is unaware of the issues and takes the item OFF the GSP (Yes they can do this!) Then I purchase 🙂 So buyers, check with your sellers, give them the chance to accomodate. I can understand it simplifying their shipping but they don't realize the cost.

Wake up Ebay and wake up sellers to the stupidity of this scheme. Its costing you buyers.

I have been buying on ebay for 13 years and have close to 2900 100% feedbacks. I purchase everything under the sun on here but have started looking elsewhere to find the items I need - even if I pay a little more. I just will not support this program in any way, shape or form.

ut.babe · ‎09-02-2013

BTW I should add that the figurine mentioned was broken when it arrived, which prompted me to ask the seller how it was packaged... gave him no indication of how it was boxed when it arrived, just asked him how it was initially sent.

When I pointed out to another seller that I wished to buy from what I had experienced he said that he had repeatedly asked if they repackaged and had only received "we don't know" as a response (I assume from ebay). But that is obviously what seems to have happened.

pierrelebel · ‎09-02-2013

For more information about questions, concerns and problems with GSP, readers may wish to visit the International Trading Board on eBay.com:

http://community.ebay.com/t5/International-Trading/bd-p/231

i*m-still-here · ‎09-02-2013

babe, my experience was very similar.

The first package I received from P-B was suspicious but I didn't know for sure if it had been tampered with or not by P-B.

My second GSP item was an extremely fragile delicate piece and arrived thrown into the bottom of a box sort of free-floating begging to be damaged.

I emailed the seller.

He was mortified (according to him) and described the careful way he had my protected my item and included a thank you note.

The note and all protective packaging had been removed by P-B.

The item cost me $40 and shipping and taxes cost close to $50 for a total of just under $90.

The package weighed less then $250 grams when it arrived here.

The question is:

Why are they re-packing?

Everything suggests that P-B is repacking to bring shipping weight down so their shipping cost is less than we paid.

We pay P-B for shipping according to package size and weight.

If P-B can bring those numbers down then they pocket the extra money.

In my case it was a lot of extra money.

Perhaps P-B has the legal right to open parcels as they are acting as custom's agents when they collect and remit taxes.............

Perhaps they don't have the right.

However, do they have the right to tamper with contents?

I'm not so sure about that.

marnotom! · ‎09-02-2013

@ut.babe wrote:

98% of the items I buy cross-border (I'm in Canada) would not even be valued for customs duty, their price is too low. Yet the GSP charges it anyway.

My guess and opinion? Pitney Bowes is repackaging items to lower the weight and the end cost of their shipping, plus pocketing the excessive customs duties. What other reason for repackaging items?

Your points on repackaging are well taken, but your points on "duties" miss the mark as they're just guesses.

You don't sound familiar with the fact that anything with a declared value of over C$20 can be assessed GST/PST/HST and charged a handling fee. It doesn't happen as often as it used to with items sent through the mail, but the possibility is always there:

http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/import/postal-postale/duty-droits-eng.html

Also, ut.babe, have you read any of the pages devoted to the GSP? There's a terms and conditions page for buyers and a help page written in "plain speak" that gives a general overview. It's good to know the ways of your enemy as it makes your attacks more effective:

http://pages.ebay.ca/shipping/globalshipping/buyer-tnc.html

http://pages.ebay.ca/help/buy/shipping-globally.html

marnotom! · ‎09-02-2013

Why are they re-packing?

Everything suggests that P-B is repacking to bring shipping weight down so their shipping cost is less than we paid.

You're jumping to a conclusion that has no evidence to back it up. It may well be that the repacking is to bring the volume of the shipment down and increase its density. Basically, they're playing with the shipment's dimensional or volumetric weight. A large three kilo package costs more to ship than a small one of the same weight. Have you ever mailed anything through Canada Post and noticed on the receipt you received the message "minimum density was applied"? Same sort of idea.

In other words, the repacking could be being done so that the shipping cost is what the buyer pays.

pierrelebel · ‎09-02-2013

A parcel appears to have been repackaged.

To assume the repackaging was done by Pitney-Bowes is just that: an assumption.

And I would think that by now everyone knows the meaning of assume.

If repackaged, it could have been done anywhere along the line - by the seller, by the original American carrier, Pitney-Bowes, the next carrier and the final destination delivery carrier - or - someone else who should not have been involved with the shipment (for example a neighbour receiving a parcel in error and opening it - yes it has happened to me).

I think it is always best to refrain from reaching and publishing conclusions without factual information.

pjcdn2005 · ‎09-02-2013

In other words, the repacking could be being done so that the shipping cost is what the buyer pays.

I think that is probably what they are doing as their shipping costs are often less than had the seller sent the item directly. If doing that, I would guess that sometimes they come out ahead and other times they are out money.

But...IF they are unpacking and repacking items, it's a violation of privacy in some respects. I'm going to 'assume' that the customs brokers at PB and the repackers are not the same people so while the brokers do have a legal right to open the package and check contents, do the repackers have the right to see what someone bought and then take out packing materials that are probably there for a purpose? I don't think so. Does the user agreements indicate that this will happen? I don't remember seeing that although I suppose it could be there.

A short time ago there was an ebayer...I think that it was chimera who posted a link to a U.S. board thread. In that thread, the ebay rep originally said that PB did not repack items but he later corrected himself and said that they did do if it was necessary.

He could have meant that they do it for customs purposes or he could have meant that they do it for repacking purposes....we don't know for sure.

i*m-stilll-here · ‎09-02-2013

marnotom............ Are you a P-B rep here to defend the GSP?

You never post about anything else but when there's a comment trashing the GSP you're right on top of it.

Just Wonderin"?

ut.babe · ‎09-02-2013

marnotom! I do know the customs regularions, I purchase from all over the world for my two home businesses. I was speaking from my own personal experience - which I said (did you miss that part), which you could not possibly have any knowledge of, thanks all the same, and I am well familiar with the $20 customs limit.

And I did read the ebay fact sheets on the GSP thanks. Unfortunately, most people would not until they are vicitims of this program.

I've read through a lot of these threads and I'm astounded by the number of replies a few members have made seeming to constantly criticize those of us who have issues and bad experiences with this program and try to share them... you wouldn't all happen to work for PB would you?

People need to be able to relate their personal experiences without you always assuming and posting as if they are uninformed or uneducated.

Customs has the right to open any package but they must also mark that it has been opened by them. I don't think Pitney Bowes should be opening anything BUT the problem is that the packages are shipped TO them for forwarding so that could likely give them the right to do so.

ut.babe · ‎09-02-2013

Pierrelebel, it may be an assumption but not much question as the item was shipped TO them one way and left their plant to go to the consumer packaged another way. Not sure who else in between would be doing it?

I don't believe American carriers (like Canadian ones) do not have the right to repackage something unless it is damaged and then they must again mark it as such.

I don't believe you two and all your posts in these threads. Too funny. You two do nothing but criticize everyone who posts negatively about this program. You two know nothing about the people posting - news flash, we don't have to post resumes and experience to make a complaint - and are making your own "Assumptions" about them... so welcome to the'assumption' crowd. I think our points are made even with your contributions and I'm happy with that 🙂

pierrelebel · ‎09-02-2013

"do not have the right"

Of course carriers do repackage at times when a parcel is damaged in transit.

ut.babe · ‎09-02-2013

RE : In other words, the repacking could be being done so that the shipping cost is what the buyer pays.

If they are repackaging to match what the buyer paid but doing so at the expense of the care of the item - as in my figurine and with the other posters item - then that just makes them **bleep**py shippers and why use them anyway? Plus the fact that the collectible figurine I purchased is worth less on resale, should I ever choose to sell it, because they removed the manufacturers box that it was in.

If the item was mistakenly sent to another address and they opened it in error, and repackaged it, you can usually tell that by the condition of the packaged... if it arrives with packing tape untouched, address labels and the shippers label all perfect, then I think its safe to think the chances are pretty good that it came that way from the shipper and not someone who opened it by mistake. Don't know about you, but I can usually tell if a package has been opened and resealed.. mine had not been.

If the shipping cost posted on the GSP items is too LOW then I'm astounded.. because it always seems outrageously high to me, and I don't get the item any faster than if its shipped without the GSP program.

In every instance - again just MY experience (done in bold for those that think I'm stating anything but) - where an item was listed with GSP (which was then taken off that program by the seller at my request so I could purchase), the shipping cost was lower, and the item reached me safe, sound and intact.

So hey, accuse me of not reading or knowing or understanding whatever you want, I'll take my actual experience over yours and Pierre's 'assumptions' of what I know or don't know any day of the week 😉

You have 1 feedback since 2004 (but a lot of forum posts...) have you used the program by chance and what was your experience with it if you did?

ut.babe · ‎09-02-2013

"Of course carriers do repackage at times when a parcel is damaged in transit"

Did you read all that I said? I acknowledge that and also said that I thought (but coulde be wrong) that American carriers - like Canada Post - have to mark the package that it they have done that due to damage....... I have received such packages....

i*m-stilll-here · ‎09-02-2013

ut.babe: Everything you post makes complete sense: All very logical, backed with facts, sensible, knowledgeable, and well-written.

I too am puzzled by the counter points because they're always full of holes.

Some posters self-righteously accuse buyers of actively trying to avoid taxes, and suggest that we are somehow lesser Canadians because we don't care for a method of shipping which taxes us 100% of the time when the Canadian standard is much different than the GSP system is.

Such Nonsense!

ut.babe · ‎09-02-2013

Thanks I*m-still-here... I don't make threads like this lightly (as evidenced by my stellar post count - as compared to others... ). Only when I feel strongly enough about something do I do this simply because there are always responders like we've seen here.

Come to think of it... Pierre is located in Canada too... so its equally mystifying as to why Pierre would be so outspokenly pro GSP when its a program he can't even use...

I guess I could understand an American based vendor who has used it with success standing up for it, I might even listen to their arguments, but that isn't the case here. So really, what business is it of yours if other Canadians who have experience with the program and aren't happy with it speak out about it?

It means nothing to either of you if the program is in place or not.... except a lot of forum posts I guess.

Anyway, the intention of this whole thread was to pass on my experience and let others take it and judge for themselves.

Let your fellow Canadians have their say.

marnotom! · ‎09-02-2013

This was ut.babe's statement:

Also, 98% of the items I buy cross-border (I'm in Canada) would not even be valued for customs duty, their price is too low. Yet the GSP charges it anyway.

This is a confusing point. Taxes aren't mentioned at all, and I don't know at what point ut.babe considers items "too low" to be charged duties, if ut.babe even means duties in the first place and not taxes.

ut.babe goes on to say:

My guess and opinion? Pitney Bowes is repackaging items to lower the weight and the end cost of their shipping, plus pocketing the excessive customs duties. What other reason for repackaging items?

The way that statement is written, it sounds as though the repacking is done to facilitate the "pocketing" of "excessive customs duties" which also makes no sense. Assuming these are actually two separate concerns, trying to argue that Pitney Bowes is actually keeping "duties" (there we go again with that oft misused term) rather than remittiting them is a rather foolish argument without any proof to support it. It doesn't do much to make the rest of one's concerns credible.

If people would bother to check on my other posts, they'll not only see that I post about other things but they'll also find posts from me saying that I'm not a big fan of the GSP in its current incarnation and I don't plan on purchasing anything through that program until a few more glitches are worked out.

As I said before, it's good to know the ways of your enemy. It makes your arguments against the GSP a lot more sound if you can weigh pros and cons rather than coming out with guns blazing and creating a lot of collateral damage in the process. Don't fall into the trap of the "if you're not with us, you're against us" mentality. I don't claim that my homework is perfect, but I've tried reading through the GSP agreement and help page to get a sense of how it might work. I've also tried reading up on Pitney Bowes itself. Have you? Google "Does Pitney Bowes Have a Fighting Chance?" sometime soon.

i*m-stilll-here · ‎09-02-2013

Even with a few glitches in babe's posts............... he still makes a lot of sense.

I don't think that P-B is pocketing taxes, but unless P-B starts providing itemized receipts for their services customers have every right to question them.

marnotom! · ‎09-03-2013

@i*m-stilll-here wrote:

I don't think that P-B is pocketing taxes, but unless P-B starts providing itemized receipts for their services customers have every right to question them.

No quibbles there. But if people should be able to work out the taxes owing on an item, subtract that from the total import charges levied by Pitney Bowes and decide if the balance to PB makes some sense, at least.

i*m-stilll-here · ‎09-03-2013

@ut.babe wrote:

In every instance - ................ Where an item was listed with GSP (which was then taken off that program by the seller at my request so I could purchase), the shipping cost was lower....................

I have a moment so I'd like to point out that the way one accurately compares shipping costs with and without the GSP is as ut.babe did above.

My experience is the same as babe's. When I requested that sellers ship without the GSP the cost of shipping was always notably lower than it was with the GSP after import fees were removed.

That is, to determine if shipping costs are higher with or without the GSP, one has to do as we do and compare an individual seller's costs with and without the GSP.

Comparing shipping costs between and among sellers who ship with or without the GSP is of no consequence and tells you very little.

It might help you choose which item to buy, but it is not a barometer by which to compare costs of GSP and non-GSP shipped items.