Comments about the Global Shipping Program

[kalvin@ebay.com]

Feel free to share your thoughts about the Global Shipping Program here. 

A few questions to get the ball rolling:

• What has worked well for you with the Global Shipping Program?
• Any ideas to help improve the experience for Canadian buyers?
• What has deterred you from buying items offered using the Global Shipping Program?
• How have you managed to search for items outside the program?

Please try & keep the comments constructive 🙂

If you have any questions about the program, please post them here.

[marnotom!]

---

@walker0017 wrote:

I remember back around 2008 or 09 I think when the Harper government said in the news that they had directed CBSA not to really push the taxes on items less than $100 declared value to save Canadian consumers money and cut down on the backlog of items waiting for assessment. All I know for sure is that 1 day I was having to pay GST/PST/Canada Post fees on items coming from the US and then I didn't and it was great.  Any investigation would clearly show that while two government agencies are still following that directive from the government, eBay and PBI have decided to not only ignore that but keep any and all overcharges with no clear breakdown of fees and taxes. Yes Canadian hate to pay taxes but we also hate international companies who collect a tax that our own government stopped doing with no breakdown of cost.

---

No question that the lack of transparency with the GSP is a major frustration, but I think you're being uncharitable by suggesting that eBay/PBI are "ignoring" a directive on the assessment and charging of taxes and duties that wasn't even intended for them.  While those being paid out of the public purse--i.e. Canada Border Services (and by extension, Canada Post) may have some leeway in charging and collecting taxes due on a postal import, commercial carriers and their agents have no such luxury.  The government can well afford to let commercial carriers continue to abide by the letter of the law because no public monies are going toward collecting taxes and duty due on a non-postal cross-border shipment.

This is largely why there's so much vehemence toward carriers such as FedEx and UPS for ground shipments from the United States.  Processing imports, advancing and remitting taxes/duty and filing paperwork costs money, and it's quite pricey to clear single items compared to freight shipments (the way the GSP is believed to transport goods).

Technically speaking, it may well be a Canadian company collecting the taxes and duty due on a GSP shipment.  Taxes and duty are actually advanced to the carrier, and the buyer of a GSP item is simply repaying Pitney Bowes the money PBI advanced.  And then some, of course.

Also keep in mind that Borderfree--once owned by Canada Post and now owned by a U.S. consortium--is a service that collects and remits taxes/duty due in a manner not unlike that of the GSP, and they do it on the behalf of a growing number of U.S.-based retailers who have online presences.  (Arlene alluded to this in an earlier post..)

---

@walker0017 wrote:

I had an item I bought from an e-commerce vender recently that was assessed $13.50 in sales taxes by the CBSA for collectable cards from the US but no Canada Post fee and I had no problem with it, I paid it and was still further ahead than if I had have bought it thru eBay using the GSP.

---

That is quite interesting.  What shipping method was used by the vendor?

---

@walker0017 wrote:

I have made other numerous of purchases on other e-commerce sites such as Amazon without any issues what so ever and I knew what I was paying and where and if I had over paid I was refunded the extra money within a day or so of getting it home without having to ask. So if these professional e-commerce sties can do it properly why can't eBay, they want to be a big fish as a professional e-commerce company with easy shipping worldwide but they don't want any of the responsibility, liability or transparency that comes with it as shown the way they have written their GSP T&C.  

---

This is a wild guess on my part, but I think that the main problem is that eBay doesn't have much in the way of control over the inventory on the site, whereas online retailers and Amazon do.  An apparel retailer will be able to provide Borderfree with pretty precise information on the nature of their items:  packaged weight and dimensions, country of origin, and so forth.  eBay and PBI are pretty much at the mercy of the sellers to provide accurate information on the item, so errors are more likely to occur than in a "controlled inventory" setting.  I suspect that any overcharges in the "import charges" go into a contingency fund to deal with those occasions where a seller's screw ups lead to the import charges not covering the various charges due.

Another consideration is likely the multiple carriers used by the GSP.  One carrier may charge PBI a different shipping rate than another carrier for the same item.  If the carrier has to be changed at the last minute, that could affect the amount charged for getting the item from Kentucky to Canada (or wherever).

I suspect there's a bit of a "learning curve" to deal with, as well.  I noticed the seller of the Smartphone I purchased a little while ago has relisted one of the ones that didn't sell at the same time I bought mine.  The shipping charges--for the same phone--are actually a bit less than what I paid.  The GSP bot may be taking the information it received on my item and applying it to this "new" listing.

[walker0017]

________________________________________________________________________________________________________

marnotom! wrote:

No question that the lack of transparency with the GSP is a major frustration, but I think you're being uncharitable by suggesting that eBay/PBI are "ignoring" a directive on the assessment and charging of taxes and duties that wasn't even intended for them.

________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I am being uncharitable and I am not apologetic for it either. They went into this knowing full well that items valued at less than $100 were not being hit for taxes by the Canadian Government and could have adjusted their GSP to compensate  for that, it is after all a computer program.

______________________________________________________________________________________________

marnotom!

That is quite interesting.  What shipping method was used by the vendor?

______________________________________________________________________________________________

USPS and arrived by Canada Post parcel delivery truck, that's why I was surprised there was no Canada Post charge as I was expecting one, invoice just said PST/GST so either I got lucky or someone did an oops.

______________________________________________________________________________________________

marnotom! wrote:

This is a wild guess on my part, but I think that the main problem is that eBay doesn't have much in the way of control over the inventory on the site, whereas online retailers and Amazon do.  An apparel retailer will be able to provide Borderfree with pretty precise information on the nature of their items:  packaged weight and dimensions, country of origin, and so forth.  eBay and PBI are pretty much at the mercy of the sellers to provide accurate information on the item, so errors are more likely to occur than in a "controlled inventory" setting.  I suspect that any overcharges in the "import charges" go into a contingency fund to deal with those occasions where a seller's screw ups lead to the import charges not covering the various charges due.

Another consideration is likely the multiple carriers used by the GSP.  One carrier may charge PBI a different shipping rate than another carrier for the same item.  If the carrier has to be changed at the last minute, that could affect the amount charged for getting the item from Kentucky to Canada (or wherever).

I suspect there's a bit of a "learning curve" to deal with, as well.  I noticed the seller of the Smartphone I purchased a little while ago has relisted one of the ones that didn't sell at the same time I bought mine.  The shipping charges--for the same phone--are actually a bit less than what I paid.  The GSP bot may be taking the information it received on my item and applying it to this "new" listing.

________________________________________________________________________________________________________

There are a lot of sellers that Amazon uses that I am sure there are the same inventory issues, more in fact because Amazon runs two separate sites in North America as you know where the same seller has separate price listings with some items not available for sale in the .ca site but on the .com site.

For Amazon regardless of carrier there is 1 price for shipping,  eBay has been around the block a couple of times by now between them and PBI that should have been solved or they should have looked at Amazons shipping model and went with that.

If this was a less than 6 month old program I might agree with you about this learning curve but more than enough time has elapsed for them to iron out 99% of the problems, it's not like they are not getting enough feedback from users like us on both their discussion forums and some of the ones overseas.  🙂

It does make you wonder why even when asked directly neither organization has done nothing to address these issues after all this time, are they gaining more by leaving the GSP the disaster it is or are they just a bit thick? 😉

[ptah781]

I have always enjoyed buying on ebay, but the import charges, and than on top of that the CAD being so low. It seems like the the imports charges 25-35% extra on what is bought, and than the shipping cost too. I've always calculate how much a item is going to cost with shipping accurately, not now with the import charges, when I do the math it seems like I am off, thankfully I have visa and overdraft in case it is more money than I think it cost. Now I try to avoid sellers that has import charges, unless it is a item that I can't find, anywhere else. Before these import charges, Once in a while  a had to pay a fee on a expensive parcel at the door, when Canada Post delivered, but it was never these outrageous prices, it was more reasonable. I am going to buy more from other sellers that don't have these extra fee (import), and let canada post or customs charge me these taxes, because thay give more of a fair rate, when thay do charge taxes.

[marnotom!]

---

@walker0017 wrote:

I am being uncharitable and I am not apologetic for it either. They went into this knowing full well that items valued at less than $100 were not being hit for taxes by the Canadian Government and could have adjusted their GSP to compensate  for that, it is after all a computer program.

______________________________________________________________________________________________

As long as the laws governing personal imports state that items with a declared value of C$20 or more (and in some cases, this threshold doesn't even exist) are subject to being charged taxes and duty, anyone licensed to clear goods through customs has to adhere to the letter of the law.  Items with modest declared values are still subject to taxes if sent by mail, it's just that CBSA no longer collects the modest amount of tax/duty due.  

Again, commercial carriers and their agents don't have the leeway that CBSA does.  Not charging taxes (and duty) is not an option.

---

@walker0017 wrote:

USPS and arrived by Canada Post parcel delivery truck, that's why I was surprised there was no Canada Post charge as I was expecting one, invoice just said PST/GST so either I got lucky or someone did an oops.

______________________________________________________________________________________________

And this was official CBSA documentation on which this invoice appeared?  Hmm.  I'm guessing that since so few postal imports get assessed taxes, etc. by CBSA now, somebody forgot to add Canada Post's processing fee to the invoice.

---

@walker0017 wrote:

There are a lot of sellers that Amazon uses that I am sure there are the same inventory issues, more in fact because Amazon runs two separate sites in North America as you know where the same seller has separate price listings with some items not available for sale in the .ca site but on the .com site.

For Amazon regardless of carrier there is 1 price for shipping,  eBay has been around the block a couple of times by now between them and PBI that should have been solved or they should have looked at Amazons shipping model and went with that.

If this was a less than 6 month old program I might agree with you about this learning curve but more than enough time has elapsed for them to iron out 99% of the problems, it's not like they are not getting enough feedback from users like us on both their discussion forums and some of the ones overseas.  🙂

It does make you wonder why even when asked directly neither organization has done nothing to address these issues after all this time, are they gaining more by leaving the GSP the disaster it is or are they just a bit thick? 😉

---

What you're forgetting or perhaps you don't realize is that some--if not many--Amazon sellers use Amazon's inventory fulfillment service.  Amazon has the seller's items in one of their warehouses.

A while ago, I compared the price of the same Smartphone from the same US-based Amazon seller on A.com and A.ca.  The Canadian price was notably higher.  For grins and giggles I tried buying the phone on .com and, of course, I couldn't.  However, when I tried on .ca, I noticed that the itemized "invoice" that appeared before I bailed out of purchasing the item had no charges for GST and PST on it.  This led me to conclude that any "import charges" were folded into the price of the item.

As I said, same seller, same item.  Both items were "fulfilled by Amazon" but different quantities showed as being on hand on .ca versus .com.  Either this reflected a lag in updating the inventory, or else it was a sign that the items on .ca were being warehoused separately from the ones on .com.

As for the lag time in repairing the GSP, keep in mind that at least one change has been made thus far, and that's the ability for sellers to opt out a small handful of destinations from the GSP.  I don't think I've found one that takes advantage of that yet, though.

Also keep in mind that we're dealing with a company who's core business of postage meters has been tanking and they're struggling to reinvent themselves.  Those responsible for the GSP probably don't have as extensive a background in logistics as someone who's been at, say, DHL for a decade or so.  

I guess a lot of the GSP hoohoorah reminds me of PayPal's growing pains.  PayPal did a lot that was legally questionable as well as by the seat of its pants in its early days, and many of those problems weren't resolved overnight, either.  With both PayPal and the GSP, you're dealing with something that doesn't have much in the way of online precedents.

Just to clarify, I'm not trying to justify what eBay and PBI are doing, but I think trying to frame things this way is a lot better for one's blood pressure than turning red and screaming "scam!"  😉

[walker0017]

I'll try and keep this shorter, the item I paid taxes on was 112.50 Cdn so the taxes were bang on as I figured there was a good chance on getting a hit because it was over 100 Cdn just under 100 US though but hey I'm not complaining.

By the time I started using PayPal it was much later after the teething pains were over but weren't PayPal's issues because of it being in the monetary world more complex to solve by a factor of 10 than the GSP, PayPal was a unique idea and needed unique solutions whereas the GSP isn't because there are other shipping models to choose from?  

Given the one fix eBay has done why not just simply remove Canada from the list entirely, that would solve the whole thing at our end leaving only the overseas issues to fix, although there are still major problems with the repackaging issues? 

And why would eBay partner up with PBI for shipping packages when as you said PBI specialized in postage metering and not very well at that which brings me back to my last statement which was are they just a bit thick teaming up with a company that has almost zero experience shipping packages.   

You are correct in that framing things this way is better than screaming scam because it is certainly not one although at times it does get frustrating and you end up shaking your head and sighing and either trying to convert US Sellers away from the GSP or avoiding them like the plague. 🙂 

[kxeron]

---

@rick31797 wrote:

---

@kxeron wrote:

---

@i*m-still-here wrote:

marmo:  

(snip)

YOU are the one who suggested that tax collection could be "earth-shatteringly" terrible.

(snip)

---

And I would like to outline briefly in conjunction with my prior post that neither eBay nor PBI at any point collects tax or duty, but rather an "import charge".

---

Thats like saying the Government of Canada Dont collect Tax, they collect HST.., your just playing with words.

---

"HST" is indeed a tax: "Harmonized Sales Tax", however eBay and PBI are the ones who are playing with words. Avoiding directly utilizing the words "tax" or "duty" so that they don't have to comply with foreign law in providing receipts for collection of taxation as so that there's a dispute of if tax was paid, that the two GSP partners are off the hook and that the consumer is on the hook 100%.

Consider how Canadian retailers are required to print a line for taxation on receipts and that a "Total" is insufficient as so that the consumer is protected and has record of how tax was calculated and such to the exact cent.

The GSP partners however plays with words and uses "Import Charges" to be able to define what the fees are for themselves via the T&C and makes no warranty that once that transaction is completed that PBI is on the hook to ensure that the item makes it. Consider if eBay's computer programs undercharged, PBI could then keep the item under the T&C and unilaterally nullify the transaction with no recourse even if the item was a one of a kind.

[marnotom!]

---

@walker0017 wrote:

I'll try and keep this shorter, the item I paid taxes on was 112.50 Cdn so the taxes were bang on as I figured there was a good chance on getting a hit because it was over 100 Cdn just under 100 US though but hey I'm not complaining.

---

I'm not complaining (so far) about my still-in-transit Smartphone, either.  The phone was US$134.  Shipping was in my opinion very reasonable at US$11.26.  The seller offering free U.S. shipping obviously brought the total shipping charge down considerably.

Import charges were US$11.10.  I'm in BC.  As far as I know, I should be charged PST and GST on a Smartphone, but what I was charged was less than what I should be paying in those two taxes.  I'm probably further ahead here than if I had the item shipped directly to me by mail.

While the GSP does have loads of problems, if you can find a seller who's using it intelligently (I know, good luck with that), a buyer can sometimes do quite well by it as long as they're willing to put up with the program's shortcomings.

---

@walker0017 wrote:

By the time I started using PayPal it was much later after the teething pains were over but weren't PayPal's issues because of it being in the monetary world more complex to solve by a factor of 10 than the GSP, PayPal was a unique idea and needed unique solutions whereas the GSP isn't because there are other shipping models to choose from?  

---

Probably none that would eliminate "risk" for nervous U.S. sellers in the same way, or at least not for the same price.  I'm betting most other options out there would be even more expensive, and some might not be "risk free" to sellers.

---

@walker0017 wrote:

Given the one fix eBay has done why not just simply remove Canada from the list entirely, that would solve the whole thing at our end leaving only the overseas issues to fix, although there are still major problems with the repackaging issues?

---

Not sure if it's just because it's no longer the holiday season and the volume of GSP sales has fallen, but on the boards I frequent, at least, the number of complaints about repackaging seems to have decreased.

As for removing Canada from the list, fine and dandy, but I'm betting that most sellers in the GSP aren't going to ship directly to Canada simply because it's not a GSP country.  I haven't found many listings where sellers ship to GSP countries and non-GSP countries.  Of course, this may be because some (many?) sellers using the GSP don't realize that they're in the program in the first place!

In other words, remove Canada from the GSP, and I believe it's likely that the vast majority of those listings won't be available to Canada.

---

And why would eBay partner up with PBI for shipping packages when as you said PBI specialized in postage metering and not very well at that which brings me back to my last statement which was are they just a bit thick teaming up with a company that has almost zero experience shipping packages.   

---

PBI is already partnered with eBay for postage.  It may well have approached eBay, rather than the other way around, with a way to "enhance" the partnership in a way that was--at least from a financial standpoint--pretty much risk-free for eBay.

I'm probably being uncharitable myself in my description of PBI, though.  This press release claims that they've been "in the cross-border shipping market since 2004":

http://news.pb.com/press-releases/pitney-bowes-new-global-ecommerce-business-group.htm

But don't forget, PBI isn't shipping GSP packages.  They're basically a contractor in this scheme.

[marnotom!]

---

@kxeron wrote:

And I would like to outline briefly in conjunction with my prior post that neither eBay nor PBI at any point collects tax or duty, but rather an "import charge".

---

rick rolled:

Thats like saying the Government of Canada Dont collect Tax, they collect HST.., your just playing with words.

---

kxeron replied:

"HST" is indeed a tax: "Harmonized Sales Tax", however eBay and PBI are the ones who are playing with words. Avoiding directly utilizing the words "tax" or "duty" so that they don't have to comply with foreign law in providing receipts for collection of taxation as so that there's a dispute of if tax was paid, that the two GSP partners are off the hook and that the consumer is on the hook 100%.

Consider how Canadian retailers are required to print a line for taxation on receipts and that a "Total" is insufficient as so that the consumer is protected and has record of how tax was calculated and such to the exact cent.

The GSP partners however plays with words and uses "Import Charges" to be able to define what the fees are for themselves via the T&C and makes no warranty that once that transaction is completed that PBI is on the hook to ensure that the item makes it. Consider if eBay's computer programs undercharged, PBI could then keep the item under the T&C and unilaterally nullify the transaction with no recourse even if the item was a one of a kind.

---

Actually, it's more than just a play with words. It's a bit of a shell game.  When we pay "import charges," we're not actually paying the taxes and duty due at all.  Pitney Bowes, as importer of record with power of attorney for the buyer, is legally and contractually the one responsible for paying those fees.  One of the functions the "import charges" largely serves is a mechanism to reimburse Pitney Bowes for those fees which it is on record with CBSA/CRA as having paid.  Not the buyer.

You can argue that how Pitney Bowes acquires this PoA is questionable and a lot of other stuff, but the fact is, this isn't just nomenclature at play here.

[reallynicestamps]

, there's the double shipping charge (from the seller to Kentucky and from Kentucky to the buyer).

There are two charges, but that does not make a ‘double’ charge. US sellers pay the quite low USPS cost to ship domestically. PB then pays to have the parcel shipped to Canada.

Whether this is “Free Shipping” in which the domestic shipping price is included in the asking price or the $5 to $10 for a bulky parcel even adding on the PB shipping charge (which seems to be about $5 usually) appears to be less than the cost of a tracked and insured parcel from the USA to Canada.

Remember that until recently, USPS charged about $25 under their Global Priority Shipping for tracked service to Canada.  This has changed now that First Class International is available at a lower cost and with Delivery Confirmation. But it is recent.(And it may be how PB is shipping to offer that low fee.)

 There's the tracking number that doesn't seem to do much, if any, tracking.

It’s an internal tracking  number, apparently. And it should be pointed out, again, that tracking does NOT benefit the buyer, only the seller and then only in cases of Dispute, when the seller can win a phoney INR dispute by providing the number.

but weren't PayPal's issues because of it being in the monetary world more complex to solve by a factor of 10 than the GSP,

Not necessarily. PP started out as I recall only dealing in US dollars and slowly expanded to other nations and other currencies. They still don’t cover many countries.

Every country covered by GSP (is there any record of how many of the 178 nations in the UN are covered) has its own duty and sales tax policies. Then add in Free Trade Agreements. Then add in that Free Trade applies to place of manufacture and not place of purchase.

why not just simply remove Canada from the list entirely

Because Americans sell more to Canadians than to any other single country? Because , in part due to that $20 import restriction, Canadians will lash out at sellers, even though the money is collected by a shipper?

And because Canadians are border-blind, expecting that US sellers will ship to them even when no shipping fee is given, even when they pay the domestic shipping fee, even when the seller puts them on their Unwelcome Buyer list.

teaming up with a company that has almost zero experience shipping packages.  

Not Zero, they have been in the software side of this business for about a decade.

http://www.pb.com/Ecommerce/Solutions/ClearPath-Global-Fulfillment.shtml

http://news.pb.com/press-releases/pitney-bowes-new-global-ecommerce-business-group.htm

And they don't actually ship the packages, they process them for shipment. Then they sub-contract -- and apparently some of those sub-contracts go to USPS and Canada Post.

[afantiques]

even adding on the PB shipping charge (which seems to be about $5 usually)

The PB shipping charge may be anything, but it is always more than $5. Please look at any GSP item and note the 'shipping charge is stated there. I really don't know why you keep posting this $5 figure. The rest of your posts seem sensible enough.

[walker0017]

________________________________________________________________________________________________________

reallynicestamps wrote:

but weren't PayPal's issues because of it being in the monetary world more complex to solve by a factor of 10 than the GSP,

Not necessarily. PP started out as I recall only dealing in US dollars and slowly expanded to other nations and other currencies. They still don’t cover many countries.

Every country covered by GSP (is there any record of how many of the 178 nations in the UN are covered) has its own duty and sales tax policies. Then add in Free Trade Agreements. Then add in that Free Trade applies to place of manufacture and not place of purchase.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________

I disagree, with the GSP computer program once the information concerning the various tariffs, duties and taxes along with the items they are linked to is entered into the software which in a sense is just a large database the program does the rest. PayPal was a unique situation, a first for e-commerce whereas GSP type programs have been around for years with all the bug ironed out. eBay/PBI have had 18 months to fully fix this and haven't.

________________________________________________________________________________________________________

reallynicestamps wrote:

why not just simply remove Canada from the list entirely

Because Americans sell more to Canadians than to any other single country? Because , in part due to that $20 import restriction, Canadians will lash out at sellers, even though the money is collected by a shipper?

And because Canadians are border-blind, expecting that US sellers will ship to them even when no shipping fee is given, even when they pay the domestic shipping fee, even when the seller puts them on their Unwelcome Buyer list.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________

eBay now allows sellers to remove up to 4 countries from the GSP for shipping. As for the $20 import restriction only the GSP is following that as CBSA and Canada Post stopped taxing items below $100 years ago as anyone who makes purchases with delivery thru Canada Post knows.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________

reallynicestamps wrote:

teaming up with a company that has almost zero experience shipping packages.  

Not Zero, they have been in the software side of this business for about a decade.

http://www.pb.com/Ecommerce/Solutions/ClearPath-Global-Fulfillment.shtml

http://news.pb.com/press-releases/pitney-bowes-new-global-ecommerce-business-group.htm

And they don't actually ship the packages, they process them for shipment. Then they sub-contract -- and apparently some of those sub-contracts go to USPS and Canada Post.

________________________________________________________________________________________________________

So if they are subcontracting to the USPS and Canada Post why do we need them as it looks like they are just another middleman with their hand out demanding their cut on their terms, and if they are so good at this why are there still major problems that they can't or won't fix?

By the way I wish I had have thought up those last three highlighted statements by 00nevermind00 they were really good.

[afantiques]

So if they are subcontracting to the USPS and Canada Post why do we need them as it looks like they are just another middleman with their hand out demanding their cut on their terms, and if they are so good at this why are there still major problems that they can't or won't fix?

They do not use USPS at all for shipping, items are sent as air freight, in bulk. They are not all that good at it but the main problem is the sellers who  have no idea what they are doing or how to export effectively.

[walker0017]

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________

afantiques wrote:

They do not use USPS at all for shipping, items are sent as air freight, in bulk. They are not all that good at it but the main problem is the sellers who  have no idea what they are doing or how to export effectively.

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I disagree, if it is a matter of not enough information being put in concerning proper identification of an item for tax and tariff/duty purposes, it can be written into the computer program as a must fill box before the item can be posted for sale, problem solved. To just simply place most of the blame for this farce called the GSP on seller inexperience is a copout for not wanting to fixing it in the first place, all the seller has to do is mail the item to Kentucky, no exporting experience necessary. eBay was created so that regular people could sell their personal items that would have gone on the lawn at a garage sale and that should still be their main focus but is no longer isn't which might explain the rise in other similar auction sites.

[arlene_v]

Marnotom ...you  have obviously been part of this discussion from day one. 

If you were to design an international global shipping program here on Ebay, how do you think it could be improved so that Canadians would find it more palatable than the GSP?

I'm trying to figure out how this could be improved, and would be interested to get your input. 

[i*m-still-here]

The GSP is problematic for many reasons, and unless they can come up with a system which doesn't involve shipping to a hub and then to the buyer it's doomed to fail.

Could a GSP type program be implemented on ebay which doesn't require double shipping?

I can't see it, and as long as there is double shipping there isn't much that can be done to keep cost down.

At this point the GSP has earned such a bad name that it's beyond redemption.

It may be possible to separate pre-paying taxes from shipping, but that's an entirely different issue.

(I know I'm not marmo, but that's the way I see it.)

[1385georgina]

re 

in fact, most Canadians really don't care about the GSP as most don't buy items from the States via ebay and if they do it's an item here and there.

However, they might care very much that Canadians are not paying taxes on items over $20 even though the law states that they should be.

The Canadians do care and do buy many things from US sellers- Canada is your largest trading partner!

The Canadian govt could care less about items under $80-100 crossing from US to Canada- the volume of commerce simply does not allow it to be a priority-collecting $12, 15.-26. here & there - it has no ROI for the government. This is the crux of our beef- we rarely had to pay duty on items under $100. coming from the USA. With Global we now pay way more than duty. I am amazed how Americans with such bluster about big business and government interference into the little man's commerce can sit back and allow Pitney Bowes to con you all into this plan. I had two exchanges today with US sellers about Global- guess what I got back as responses? Too bad for you- it makes my life easier and shipping to Canada has always been a hassle! So thanks US eBayers- I am paying for my last 2 purchases tonite and will now only deal with Ebay Canada, Amazon, US retailers direct, Joss & Main, etc. I call on Canadian buyers to boycott US sellers using Global and those who escalate shipping fees as a disguise for "I don't want your business". And I want eBay to offer me a sort choice to avoid even viewing Global sellers in my searches.

[i*m-still-here]

Georgina:   How many of your neighbours do you think buy ebay items on a regular basis?

Very few.

The average Canadian has never heard of the GSP.

It's very unlikely that W-5 will pick up on it, but if by some fluke they do then the average Canadian is going to hear that ebay shoppers don't pay taxes on items over $20 even though the law states we should be.

That's what they'll care about.  Not the GSP.

[walker0017]

________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I*m-still-here wrote:

It's very unlikely that W-5 will pick up on it, but if by some fluke they do then the average Canadian is going to hear that ebay shoppers don't pay taxes on items over $20 even though the law states we should be.

________________________________________________________________________________________________________

If enough people write into W5 or one of the others they will pick it up. The thing is there are lots of non-eBay companies that ship to Canada going through USPS and Canada Post or with other shippers with items that are valued at less than $100 that are ignored by CBSA. Any proper investigation would uncover this and how PBI and eBay is taking advantage of this to make a profit and charging inflated "Import Fees". They would also look at the GSP T&C and give it the once over seeing it for the flawed document it is. The sooner this happens the sooner this mess might get sorted.

[marnotom!]

---

@arlene_v wrote:

Marnotom ...you  have obviously been part of this discussion from day one. 

If you were to design an international global shipping program here on Ebay, how do you think it could be improved so that Canadians would find it more palatable than the GSP?

I'm trying to figure out how this could be improved, and would be interested to get your input. 

---

I definitely think the lack of transparency with the import charges is a definite problem.  This coupled with a lack of understanding of the letter of the law concerning personal imports leads to a lot of unfounded claims of scams and rip-offs on the GSP's part.

I also think there has to be better provision for lightweight items.  If it's absolutely impossible to get the GSP's shipping price down for items that can ship internationally as oversized letters, perhaps some incentives can be offered to sellers using the program and offering "free" shipping within the US.

I don't like the way sellers have been conscripted into the GSP, and surprised sellers can make for a less than palatable experience for Canadian buyers.

Perhaps this can be mitigated by ensuring that sellers use the Item Specifics section as part of creating their listing, whether or not they know they're enrolled in the program.  An listing without crucial areas of the Item Specifics section is a listing that doesn't go "live" until fixed.  This would also go some way to fixing the issue of duties being charged incorrectly or inappropriately on an item, and ensuring that an accurate shipping price that reflects the packaged weight of an item is charged.

The GSP should also take an item's subcategory (or even sub-sub-category) into consideration for tax/duty charges, not just the overriding category.

And finally, there should be a mechanism for refunds of import charges when they're somewhat to significantly over the actual charges incurred.

Having said all that, I received my Smartphone from Florida today, pretty much in the middle of the range of delivery dates given.  I haven't received the protective case I ordered from a seller in California yet, though, and that seller gave the impression that it would be shipped directly from California.  (We'll see if that one arrives from China or Hong Kong.)

The item arrived in its original USPS Priority flat-rate envelope, but any sort of shipping information under the label with my address on it was obscured by that label.  It had been opened as the seller hadn't specified the phone's country of manufacturer in the listing, but nothing appeared amiss (there was bubble wrap in the envelope) and the eBay/PBI note was in the envelope.  It was resealed with packing tape with eBay and Pitney Bowes logos.

Phone works fine so far as far as downloading updates and apps when I'm tethered to my home wi-fi.  Now if I could just convince it to acknowledge my spare Rogers SIM card so I can actually use it as a phone!  I'm thinking I'm going to have to remove the one from my present phone and use that, and that was such a pain in the patoot to insert in the first place...  

[marnotom!]

---

@i*m-still-here wrote:

The GSP is problematic for many reasons, and unless they can come up with a system which doesn't involve shipping to a hub and then to the buyer it's doomed to fail.

Could a GSP type program be implemented on ebay which doesn't require double shipping?

I can't see it, and as long as there is double shipping there isn't much that can be done to keep cost down.

---

Sellers who ship through the GSP but offer "free" domestic shipping have an edge over those who levy shipping charges on their domestic sales and ship through the GSP.

Admittedly, that edge may not be terribly significant for items such as trading cards, however.

The principle of the GSP is that the item is shipped as part of a bulk commercial freight shipment from the Global Shipping Center to a hub in the destination country (or region).  Short of sellers dropping the item off at the GSC themselves, I can't see how else this could be done unless UPS Stores could be used as a drop-off location for GSP items.  This may not be all that convenient for some sellers, however, and PBI may not want this sort of partnership with UPS.