GSP item damaged in transit: what are my options?

[fh991586]

Hello there,
I finally received today something shipped May 2nd (Covid-19 delay!).  Unfortunately, it was damaged in transit...  The main problem is that it's an artwork, so it's not possible to just get another one like that.  I already messaged the seller about my disappointment, but I feel that the packaging was not sufficient to reduce such a risk.  Since it went through GSP, who will get stuck with the refund if I claim it officially?  Even if it's damaged (and impossible to restore, should I add), I consider keeping it still because I might never get something from the same artist in the future, but I really feel like I overpaid a lot considering its present condition.  The seller being a nonprofit, I also don't feel good about letting them with the burden of complete refund.
Will GSP bite the bullet if I ask for a refund, or the seller?  Who is responsible for the final packaging?

[pjcdn2005]

If you open a return request and specify that it was damaged in transit the gsp should take responsibility and refund you in full if they repackaged it.  Is there some sort of sticker or something saying that they did open it at the gsp center?   The gsp doesn’t require a return when they are deemed to be at fault.     

[marnotom!]

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@pjcdn2005 wrote:

If you open a return request and specify that it was damaged in transit the gsp should take responsibility and refund you in full if they repackaged it.  Is there some sort of sticker or something saying that they did open it at the gsp center?   The gsp doesn’t require a return when they are deemed to be at fault.     

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My understanding from other posters with this experience is that the buyer has to file a "not as described" claim noting that the item was received damaged and specify that the item was forwarded by the GSP so that it would be handled appropriately.  Has this changed, or is my memory faulty?

[pjcdn2005 · Accepted solution]

 A return request saying that item was damaged in transit is an item as not described claim.  Ebay is supposed to already know that the gsp was the shipper but yes, it is a good idea to mention that in the claim.  

[fh991586]

The problem in your affirmation is the "should" part.
Years ago, I bought official prints from a gallery and they arrived showing some damage clearly made while repackaging/transit (GSP sticker on one end of tube). I used the official way to make a claim, and I got a refund directly from the seller, that's why I really wonder how it's processed on the other end of the deal. Wouldn't eBay or GSP should have paid me back instead of the seller?

Regarding today's shipment, there is no info on it that relates to GSP (original shipping sticker within USA is under the new one with my own address), and I seriously doubt it was opened in the first place (sealed USPS Priority Mail flat rate envelope), but the auction page clearly states that it's shipped through GSP (and my CC bill shows too).

I'm waiting for a reply from the seller before doing anything, because I'D prefer they didn't bear the blunt of it. It just sucks for everyone here. 😞

[reallynicestamps]

The "within USA" sticker shows an address in Erlanger KY or the seller's address?

Erlanger would mean it was sent to the GSP plant there.

The seller's address means she used the same packaging her supplier used to ship to her.

CBSA ignores enough low value/low bulk shipments that the latter case could have gone through without Customs assessment, even though it was dutiable and/or taxable.

CBSA would not know that you already paid the import fees to GSP.

[reallynicestamps]

but I feel that the packaging was not sufficient to reduce such a risk.

Although the GSP has been known to reject shipments delivered TO them if they were damaged in transit to Erlanger, even if they did not repackage the item (which they don't often do, and mark those that are repackaged, in my experience) the seller's packaging was not sufficient to withstand shipping, no matter who the carrier.

I suspect the seller remains responsible, since your received the original packaging, but the GSP may accept responsibility anyway.

Basically they have deep pockets and it can be cheaper to settle the dispute than to fight it.

[fh991586]

It is not possible to see the original address (because it's under 2 layers of stickers), but the tracking shows it went to Erlanger (the usual route for GSP). I don't think GSP would have removed the original envelope to put it in a new one, unless there was a sticker stating it had been opened.
CBSA should know that taxes were already paid on this because of the provenance (GSP bundle), and everything crossing the border now his filed electronically as soon as it enters the system (no more handwritten CN-22 declaration).

[marnotom!]

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@fh991586 wrote:

Years ago, I bought official prints from a gallery and they arrived showing some damage clearly made while repackaging/transit (GSP sticker on one end of tube). I used the official way to make a claim, and I got a refund directly from the seller, that's why I really wonder how it's processed on the other end of the deal. Wouldn't eBay or GSP should have paid me back instead of the seller?

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I haven't had to file a claim for some time now (as my previous reply makes pretty obvious), but my understanding is that the process is--at least initially--automated and handled by bots.  If you don't use words in your claim such as "Global Shipping Program" and "GSP" as flags, the claim will be made against the seller rather than against Pitney Bowes (DBA "the Global Shipping Program").  Did you get your "'import charges" refunded in this other claim you described?  Just curious.

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@fh991586 wrote:

Regarding today's shipment, there is no info on it that relates to GSP (original shipping sticker within USA is under the new one with my own address), and I seriously doubt it was opened in the first place (sealed USPS Priority Mail flat rate envelope), but the auction page clearly states that it's shipped through GSP (and my CC bill shows too).

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My last GSP-forwarded item (of only four that I've purchased on eBay) didn't have a "resealed by the Global Shipping Center" sticker on it, either, but it was pretty apparent that the item was handled by the program because the address the seller used on the invoice was that of the Global Shipping Center in Erlanger, Kentucky.  Another clue was the return address on the mailing label, which was the Canada Post Gateway Facility in Mississauga, Ontario.  Have a look for clues like that on your package or paperwork.

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@fh991586 wrote:

I'm waiting for a reply from the seller before doing anything, because I'D prefer they didn't bear the blunt of it. It just sucks for everyone here. 😞

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It's not in Pitney Bowes' best interests to forward items that got damaged en route to the Global Shipping Center, so odds are that the damage occured on the GSP's watch.  It's good of you to inform the seller of what's going on here so they're prepared for the inevitable hold to be placed on their PayPal funds, but don't be surprised if they ghost on you, either because they're bewildered by what's going on (they may be unaware that their item was forwarded to you through the GSP) or else they're confident that they've fulfilled their obligation to ship the item to Kentucky and they're "immune" from any sort of damage or non-delivery claim made through eBay or PayPal.

[EDIT: Cross-posted.  Apologies for the second dose of certain questions or comments.]

[fh991586]

Now that you mention it, I really don't recall if I got the GSP part refunded years ago... I'll be very careful in my wording if I proceed through eBay!

The original mailing address form was taped to the envelope, then another shipping label was put on it (4"x6" size), then the CN22 Customs Declaration with mailing info to Canada (also 4"x6"), then a tracking sticker for the Canada Post delivery. That's a lot of layers! 😉

The seller is a nonprofit with 12 positive feedbacks in 8 years. Clearly not a pro nor old timer on eBay...

[marnotom!]

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@fh991586 wrote:

The original mailing address form was taped to the envelope, then another shipping label was put on it (4"x6" size), then the CN22 Customs Declaration with mailing info to Canada (also 4"x6"), then a tracking sticker for the Canada Post delivery. That's a lot of layers! 😉

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Hmm.  Okay, this is getting a bit weird.  Is the return address on the label for the seller (or non-profit) or does a bit of Googling suggest it might be for something else, such as another mail forwarder?

Generally, GSP items are shipped as freight from Kentucky to Canada to a Canada Post import gateway (usually Mississauga) and shipped by mail as Canadian Expedited Parcels.  There's no CN22's on them because they've cleared customs as part of a bigger freight shipment and their contents and value are on a manifest or list for CBSA to check.

There have been a few posts on this board of GSP-forwarded items being mailed out from Kentucky, but not many at all.  Of course, since the world went sideways in mid-March things have become especially weird with all manner of shipments, so it's quite possible that your item is a GSP shipment.

I think at this point the best thing to do is to check the tracking information on one of Pitney Bowes websites.  You were given a UPAA-prefixed tracking number by eBay, weren't you?  Plug it into one of these Pitney Bowes tracking sites, or both if you're so inclined:

https://tracking.pb.com/

https://parceltracking.pb.com/

If your item was sent to Kentucky to be forwarded, you should get a reasonably detailed description of the tracking data for your item.  Just below the "progress meter" for the item should also be an option to "track the item on the carrier's website".  It might be worth clicking on that as well.

If you're not getting any sort of tracking data for your item, either this information is taking forever to be updated, or else the seller didn't use the GSP after all.  I'd then check the Canada Post tracking number on the label.  If it's not a domestic tracking number, you should be able to find tracking information on it on both the USPS website and the Canada Post website.

And here I said on another thread that I used to be a tracking geek!  😱

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@fh991586 wrote:

The seller is a nonprofit with 12 positive feedbacks in 8 years. Clearly not a pro nor old timer on eBay...

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Yeah, this sets off amber lights for me.  The seller might not be familiar with the GSP and may not be aware that the item offered GSP shipping and used other channels to get the item to you.

[fh991586]

Even if the seller was unaware about the GSP, it really went through the full route. Just check it for fun: UPAAD000000000764329
It actually made a detour into another facility in ELK GROVE VILLAGE, IL 60007 after Erlanger. Can't say if it's normal procedure or a Covid-19 subroutine...

[ypdc_dennis]

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@fh991586 wrote:
...  made a detour into another facility in ELK GROVE VILLAGE, IL 60007 after Erlanger. ...

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Elk Grove Village is located next to the Chicago area's O'Hare International Airport.

It has a major USPS hub that handles a lot of mail from/to Canada.  A number of couriers also have hubs located there.

-..-

[pjcdn2005]

Did DHL deliver the parcel?  I’ve heard that at least some gsp packages are being delivered by them and that would probably explain the Elk Grove address.

Regardless of that, the only way for you to recover everything that you paid is to open a return request citing that the item is damaged.  I dont know how they determine if the damage  was gsp caused rather than seller caused or how you can determine it for sure.  I suspect that they don’t do a lot of research into it but I don’t know for sure.

I get the impression (and I could be wrong) that ideally you would like to keep the artwork and are hoping that the seller will be willing to offer a partial refund.  If that doesn’t happen, then the only way to recover any money is to file a claim stating that it is damaged and was sent through the gsp.   If the outside of the box is damaged, you should definitely mention that.

As far as how your claim was handled years ago, hopefully things have evolved somewhat since then. Whether the gsp is deemed responsible for the damage or not, they will still be the ones to refund the money that was paid to them...the import fees and international shipping portion.   

[fh991586]

After getting in touch with the seller, I've decided to proceed with a claim for SNAD/damaged in transit. If the seller can't keep the money, I'll make it to them, as I still consider the damage to be an unexpected type I've never seen before in all my years in the shipping business (the force could have gone through a good packaging anyway, IMHO). I'll post an update if it's worth it...

[marnotom!]

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@pjcdn2005 wrote:

Did DHL deliver the parcel?  I’ve heard that at least some gsp packages are being delivered by them and that would probably explain the Elk Grove address.

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Going through the tracking data, it appears as though the item was handled by Ascendia (the Swiss Post/La Poste equivalent of DHL) when it left Erlanger and handed off to USPS in Elk Grove who then handed it off to CBSA and then on to Canada Post. 

[fh991586]

One thing: the only option I had was to send a request for a return (even though the seller is listed as not accepting returns in this case). The process doesn't get to eBay arbitration until a delay if we don't agree on a solution. Not as easy as I would have thought... 😕

[marnotom!]

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@fh991586 wrote:

After getting in touch with the seller, I've decided to proceed with a claim for SNAD/damaged in transit. If the seller can't keep the money, I'll make it to them, as I still consider the damage to be an unexpected type I've never seen before in all my years in the shipping business (the force could have gone through a good packaging anyway, IMHO). I'll post an update if it's worth it...

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The package seems to have languished for a while in Mississauga.  Who knows how many times it was shifted and how many other items bombarded it while overburdened workers were trying to stay two metres apart from each other?

And while your desire to keep the seller from losing out on this sale is admirable, keep in mind that they have the option of insuring their shipments with a carrier that pays out for damage claims.  You're trying to make this nice, warm and fuzzy and personal, but this is in fact a business transaction.

[marnotom!]

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@fh991586 wrote:

One thing: the only option I had was to send a request for a return (even though the seller is listed as not accepting returns in this case). The process doesn't get to eBay arbitration until a delay if we don't agree on a solution. Not as easy as I would have thought... 😕

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Because the eBay Canada website runs a lot of the same code as the eBay.com website, there hasn't been anything added to the returns section that would accommodate a damage claim made on a GSP-forwarded shipment.  We're basically ramming square pegs into round holes, in other words.

[pjcdn2005]

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@marnotom! wrote:

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@pjcdn2005 wrote:

Did DHL deliver the parcel?  I’ve heard that at least some gsp packages are being delivered by them and that would probably explain the Elk Grove address.

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Going through the tracking data, it appears as though the item was handled by Ascendia (the Swiss Post/La Poste equivalent of DHL) when it left Erlanger and handed off to USPS in Elk Grove who then handed it off to CBSA and then on to Canada Post. 

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That’s odd, I’ve never seen gsp tracking using usps before.