Partial refund for items arrived dead?

[riskta85]

I ordered some composting worms for $71.84 CAD. The seller agreed to refund me for the shipment and eBay won't allow me to return the item as it states the seller already gave me a 'full' refund. However I only got $50.29 back? Why am I still being charged $21.55 for items that arrived to me dead?

[marnotom!]

Did you purchase the worms from an American seller who used the eBay International Shipping service as a forwarding agent? If so, some of the shipping charge would have gone to that service and not the seller and the seller would not have been able to give you a refund for that portion.

We need more information in order to properly advise you.

[lotzofuniquegoodies]

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@riskta85 wrote:
I ordered some composting worms for $71.84 CAD. The seller agreed to refund me for the shipment and eBay won't allow me to return the item as it states the seller already gave me a 'full' refund. However I only got $50.29 back? Why am I still being charged $21.55 for items that arrived to me dead?

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@riskta85 

When ordering anything of that nature you definitely have to consider transit time. (Possibly suffication). If (and I am seeing some similar listings that do ship from USA)  it would be important to confirm if the item is allowed (approved) internationally shipping and then customs time for processing.  If you plan to make similar purchases in the future, it might be best to search by distance. 

"if 1 lb of worms, add 1 lb of bedding as well. This bag of worms should then be packed in a box with a considerable amount of padding – shredded paper works very well – and shipped right away. Generally, it is best if you use a 2 or 3 day shipping service."

[pjcdn2005]

Had you originally opened a return request?  If the seller just gave you a partial refund you should be able to appeal that through the original request.  

If you hadn't opened a return request before the refund and if the worms were sent through eBay international shipping (EIS), the seller refunded all that they originally received as @marnotom! suggested.  The seller should have told you to open a return and then if it was an EIS transaction, ebay would have refunded in full.   If this is what happened it might be difficult to contact eBay through the help pages but you could try to reach them through one of their customer services pages on Facebook. Instagram or X.  You can send a private message through them there.

You should be refunded in full but if this was sent through the EIS the seller goofed up by not asking you to open a return.  Actually I'm surprised that live worms can be sent from the US but I see listings with live worms shipping to Canada.  

You may end up having to open up a claim through your payment provider but try to resolve it through eBay first.

[reallynicestamps]

If the seller gave you a partial refund, I suspect they had used the eIS for shipping.

This is a Seller Protection Program.

The seller refunded you everything they received from you, before fees.

Were you dealing with the Seller directly or did you open a Claim?

EIS also collects import fees (duty and sales tax-mostly sales tax) and some extra for shipping to Canada. The seller never saw that.

Only by opening the Claim can the rest of your payment be refunded.

Sellers are allowed to demand or waive the return of disputed goods.

Dead earthworms would be one product no one would want returned.

If demanded it would be one of very few reasons for returning an empty envelope. 😎

[marnotom!]

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@reallynicestamps wrote:

EIS also collects import fees (duty and sales tax-mostly sales tax) and some extra for shipping to Canada.

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Sometimes. Not always. See the DHL threads that have been popping up lately, @reallynicestamps.

[reallynicestamps]

devon@ebay 

Has there been any clarification on these DHL charges?

The customer should be able to see their total cost (including brokerage if any) before ordering.

Anything else is a Bad Customer Experience, and the customer will blame eBay not the seller, since many customers are not exactly aware that eBay is just a venue.

There was a lot of misplaced criticism of GSP because import fees were charged before shipping, but I don't recall any complaints about added brokerage fees.
And GSP seemed to be only about $5USD in any case.

[marnotom!]

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@reallynicestamps wrote:

Has there been any clarification on these DHL charges?

The customer should be able to see their total cost (including brokerage if any) before ordering.

Anything else is a Bad Customer Experience, and the customer will blame eBay not the seller, since many customers are not exactly aware that eBay is just a venue.

There was a lot of misplaced criticism of GSP because import fees were charged before shipping, but I don't recall any complaints about added brokerage fees.
And GSP seemed to be only about $5USD in any case.

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Forgive my butting in here, @reallynicestamps, but I'm not sure if anything really needs to be clarified. 

The possibility of DHL charges kicking in is for eIS-forwarded shipments where the buyer has either opted to defer their payment of taxes and duty (if applicable) rather than paying them at checkout, or in instances where there is no option for the buyer to select for paying taxes and duty at checkout.  It's noted on the listing page, as it is for listings where the seller is offering direct shipping to Canada, that "authorities may apply import charges upon delivery."  

When eIS was first unleashed, we were promised that buyers would have the choice of either handling customs charges themselves or have eBay do it.  It's been a bit slow in coming, but the choice is being gradually rolled out.  I think we just have to wait it out a little longer.   There's no precident for carriers to have their customs processing fees on display on eBay listings, and my suspicion is that if it were somehow possible to do this for listings where eIS is used, other carriers would be crying foul.

[lotzofuniquegoodies]

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@marnotom! wrote:

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@reallynicestamps wrote:

Has there been any clarification on these DHL charges?

The customer should be able to see their total cost (including brokerage if any) before ordering.

Anything else is a Bad Customer Experience, and the customer will blame eBay not the seller, since many customers are not exactly aware that eBay is just a venue.

There was a lot of misplaced criticism of GSP because import fees were charged before shipping, but I don't recall any complaints about added brokerage fees.
And GSP seemed to be only about $5USD in any case.

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Forgive my butting in here, @reallynicestamps, but I'm not sure if anything really needs to be clarified. 

The possibility of DHL charges kicking in is for eIS-forwarded shipments where the buyer has either opted to defer their payment of taxes and duty (if applicable) rather than paying them at checkout, or in instances where there is no option for the buyer to select for paying taxes and duty at checkout.  It's noted on the listing page, as it is for listings where the seller is offering direct shipping to Canada, that "authorities may apply import charges upon delivery."  

When eIS was first unleashed, we were promised that buyers would have the choice of either handling customs charges themselves or have eBay do it.  It's been a bit slow in coming, but the choice is being gradually rolled out.  I think we just have to wait it out a little longer.   There's no precident for carriers to have their customs processing fees on display on eBay listings, and my suspicion is that if it were somehow possible to do this for listings where eIS is used, other carriers would be crying foul.

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@marnotom! 

@reallynicestamps 

@riskta85 

I think for anyone involved in 1 of these situations, it would be important for the buyer to know how someone was being shipped....DHL/UPS/Mystery carrier...In advance.  Pre GSP/eIS buyers KNEW the service (Courier and speed...Now it's more of an open-ended wishy washy guesstimate) they are paying for. Now it has become an open ended surprise.

[marnotom!]

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@lotzofuniquegoodies wrote:

I think for anyone involved in 1 of these situations, it would be important for the buyer to know how someone was being shipped....DHL/UPS/Mystery carrier...In advance.  Pre GSP/eIS buyers KNEW the service (Courier and speed...Now it's more of an open-ended wishy washy guesstimate) they are paying for. Now it has become an open ended surprise.

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I doubt that the carrier is known at the time the listing is live, @lotzofuniquegoodies.  Sure, the eIS calculator calculates a shipping rate, but I don't think it's based solely on the carrier.  I just looked up a listing for a big fat book that's would be forwarded through eIS to Canada and I checked the shipping rate for five postal codes from Tofino to Iqaluit to Corner Brook and it's exactly the same.  I think the calculator is given the tools to create an estimate and the shipping method is determined either once the buyer provides their shipping address and makes payment or when the item is processed at the eIS hub.

Buyers may have known the carrier pre-GSP (unless the seller was using flat-rate shipping), but that information doesn't necessarily mean anything to some buyers.  How many Canadian buyers have been surprised the first time they bought something that went through the mail and was assessed and charged duty by Canada Border Services?

I think this problem will largely sort itself out once buyers have the ability to consistently choose how they want taxes handled for eIS-forwarded purchases.  Then the big thing we boardies will have to deal with are questions from buyers wondering why they're offered the choice to pay taxes at checkout when they've never had to pay taxes on items they've imported by mail.

[lotzofuniquegoodies]

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@marnotom! wrote:

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@lotzofuniquegoodies wrote:

I think for anyone involved in 1 of these situations, it would be important for the buyer to know how someone was being shipped....DHL/UPS/Mystery carrier...In advance.  Pre GSP/eIS buyers KNEW the service (Courier and speed...Now it's more of an open-ended wishy washy guesstimate) they are paying for. Now it has become an open ended surprise.

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I doubt that the carrier is known at the time the listing is live, @lotzofuniquegoodies.  Sure, the eIS calculator calculates a shipping rate, but I don't think it's based solely on the carrier.  I just looked up a listing for a big fat book that's would be forwarded through eIS to Canada and I checked the shipping rate for five postal codes from Tofino to Iqaluit to Corner Brook and it's exactly the same.  I think the calculator is given the tools to create an estimate and the shipping method is determined either once the buyer provides their shipping address and makes payment or when the item is processed at the eIS hub.

Buyers may have known the carrier pre-GSP (unless the seller was using flat-rate shipping), but that information doesn't necessarily mean anything to some buyers.  How many Canadian buyers have been surprised the first time they bought something that went through the mail and was assessed and charged duty by Canada Border Services?

I think this problem will largely sort itself out once buyers have the ability to consistently choose how they want taxes handled for eIS-forwarded purchases.  Then the big thing we boardies will have to deal with are questions from buyers wondering why they're offered the choice to pay taxes at checkout when they've never had to pay taxes on items they've imported by mail.

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@marnotom! 

Trying to decide which eBay will figure out first. A simple method to combine on shipping (which according to the US board is going to become more of a mess with this new must pay in 1 hour with auctions) or a filter to remove eIS from search? Hmmmm

[marnotom!]

Easy. Neither.

Combined shipping can’t be calculated accurately without the calculator having access to the weight and, more significantly, the shipping dimensions of the combined shipment.

As for an eIS filter, why would eBay create a tool that it feels would work against its own interests? Buyers already can’t “eyeball filter” eIS-supported listings in search results the way they could with the GSP, and that’s probably no accident.

[lotzofuniquegoodies]

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@marnotom! wrote:
Easy. Neither.

Combined shipping can’t be calculated accurately without the calculator having access to the weight and, more significantly, the shipping dimensions of the combined shipment.

As for an eIS filter, why would eBay create a tool that it feels would work against its own interests? Buyers already can’t “eyeball filter” eIS-supported listings in search results the way they could with the GSP, and that’s probably no accident.

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Clarification:

A way for buyers to easily and always request combined shipping and sellers to be able to send revised invoices......Prior to payment.

[lotzofuniquegoodies]

@marnotom! 

Extremely important to consider as soon as an order is sent as multiple parcels it increases shipping costs to buyer + customs charges, tax/VAT when applicable. From an eBay perspective maybe awesome with the  increased fees they can charge but not a good buying experience for buyers.