Questions about the Global Shipping Program

[kalvin@ebay.com]

Do you have questions about the Global Shipping Program? Please post here & I'll do my best to track those answers down for you!

If you have any comments about the program, use this forum instead.

Thanks,

[marnotom!]

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@sylviebee wrote:

That is outright false and makes absolutely no sense to boot.

Who passed that (false) information on to you? 

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The terms and conditions page to which buyers agree every time they make a purchase that involves the GSP.

[afantiques]

Who passed that (false) information on to you?

http://pages.ebay.com/shipping/globalshipping/buyer-tnc.html

It is a bit long and tedious but the full terms and conditions of use need to be read and understood , preferably in conjunction with all the ebay published FAQs to understand the process.

It is really advisable to read through and understand this as well.

http://pages.ebay.co.uk/shipping/globalshipping/seller-tnc.html

[afantiques]

The paragraph marnotom quotes is in the t&c but is a bit misleading.

The actual situation and practise is not as bad as that. They must be relying on no one ever reading terms and conditions to include such a term. It does of course amount to saying 'If we lose or smash it, tough luck, it is down to you'

. Buyers would flee in droves.

In practice they do take responsibility and refunds for lost or damaged items are in theory better and easier than if dealing with an ebay seller.

The problem is that it is easy for buyers to make mistakes when making a claim, and involving the seller is the number one mistake. This is quite counter intuitive as the normal non GSP ebay process is the reverse of this.

[sylviebee]

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@afantiques wrote:

Who passed that (false) information on to you?

http://pages.ebay.com/shipping/globalshipping/buyer-tnc.html

It is a bit long and tedious but the full terms and conditions of use need to be read and understood , preferably in conjunction with all the ebay published FAQs to understand the process.

It is really advisable to read through and understand this as well.

http://pages.ebay.co.uk/shipping/globalshipping/seller-tnc.html

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There is even a ghost of a chance that I'd have the time or inclination to spend hours reading through the tomes of GSP terms and conditions you've posted links to, let alone two such volumes.

You know the KISS principle.  This would be a good time to use it.

Just cut and paste the relevant information from those massive documents so I can see exactly what you're trying to convey.

Please do your best to keep it short.  This has already evolved into a distasteful exchange.  (That was predictable.)

[sylviebee]

marnotom!/afantiques:  Have you ever actually filed a case for even one GSP item?

The first time I filed a case for a GSP item which arrived damaged, I expected the process to unfold exactly the way you'd described but the process was NOTHING like that.

Instead the process was no different than any other.

That time the seller wanted me to return the damaged item and offered to send me a label for return shipping to his home address.

That was early during the program so when I had a case last week I thought maybe the process had changed to be more in line with the process you've been describing.

Instead, the seller sent me a refund followed by a note that he'd opted to refund without requiring a return because he didn't want to pay for return shipping.

I was curious so I sent him a message asking what the process was like from his end.  The seller told me that the refund came directly from him and the GSP was not involved.

I emailed back and asked if there was some way for him to recover his funds from the folks at the GSP because I think that they were responsible for the damage, and he didn't reply.

[marnotom!]

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@afantiques wrote:

The paragraph marnotom quotes is in the t&c but is a bit misleading.

The actual situation and practise is not as bad as that. They must be relying on no one ever reading terms and conditions to include such a term. It does of course amount to saying 'If we lose or smash it, tough luck, it is down to you'

. Buyers would flee in droves.

In practice they do take responsibility and refunds for lost or damaged items are in theory better and easier than if dealing with an ebay seller.

The problem is that it is easy for buyers to make mistakes when making a claim, and involving the seller is the number one mistake. This is quite counter intuitive as the normal non GSP ebay process is the reverse of this.

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No question the wording is pretty off-putting.  One has to go further down the terms and conditions to find a clause that states that a buyer "may" have access to the usual eBay protections for the sale of an item forwarded through the GSP.  What the terms and conditions don't state is how one goes about filing for a loss or damage claim should one arise.

[marnotom!]

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@sylviebee wrote:

The first time I filed a case for a GSP item which arrived damaged, I expected the process to unfold exactly the way you'd described but the process was NOTHING like that.

Instead the process was no different than any other.

That time the seller wanted me to return the damaged item and offered to send me a label for return shipping to his home address.

That was early during the program so when I had a case last week I thought maybe the process had changed to be more in line with the process you've been describing.

Instead, the seller sent me a refund followed by a note that he'd opted to refund without requiring a return because he didn't want to pay for return shipping.

I was curious so I sent him a message asking what the process was like from his end.  The seller told me that the refund came directly from him and the GSP was not involved.

I emailed back and asked if there was some way for him to recover his funds from the folks at the GSP because I think that they were responsible for the damage, and he didn't reply.

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If the damage occurred when the item was in transit between the seller's location and the Global Shipping Center in Kentucky then, yes, the seller would be responsible and your seller handled the claim correctly.  If the damage was determined to have occurred between the Global Shipping Center and its final destination, then your seller messed up.

If there was no indication in the claim's information that either you provided that this was an item forwarded through the Global Shipping Program, it would have been handled as a regular SNAD claim instead of as a GSP damage claim.

[sylviebee]

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@marnotom! wrote:

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If the damage occurred when the item was in transit between the seller's location and the Global Shipping Center in Kentucky then, yes, the seller would be responsible and your seller handled the claim correctly.  If the damage was determined to have occurred between the Global Shipping Center and its final destination, then your seller messed up.

If there was no indication in the claim's information that either you provided that this was an item forwarded through the Global Shipping Program, it would have been handled as a regular SNAD claim instead of as a GSP damage claim.

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That makes no sense on so many levels.

First, if an item arrives at the hub damaged it's unlikely that the GSP would forward it to the buyer.  Therefore your idea makes no sense right out of the gate.

In addition, when an item is shipped from another country to Canada and arrives damaged, there is no way to determine if the damage occurred in Canada or the originating country so no one even tries.

Same principle goes for the GSP.

Again, you're saying that stating that an item was shipped via the GSP in the details section of a claim bumps it over to the folks at the GSP.   That makes no sense, and even it did.............

Since virtually no buyer is going to mention how the item was shipped it follows that the GSP doesn't get involved with claims unless and until sellers include them.  That's exactly what I've been saying all along.

[marnotom!]

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@sylviebee wrote:

That makes no sense on so many levels.

First, if an item arrives at the hub damaged it's unlikely that the GSP would forward it to the buyer.  Therefore your idea makes no sense right out of the gate.

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It's not "my idea".  It's just an explanation of the workings of damage claims for GSP-forwarded items.  Of course it's unlikely that the GSP would forward an obviously damaged item to its intended recipient, but it's theoretically possible and it would be the only circumstance where a seller would be responsible for a damaged item forwarded through the program.

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@sylviebee wrote:

In addition, when an item is shipped from another country to Canada and arrives damaged, there is no way to determine if the damage occurred in Canada or the originating country so no one even tries.

Same principle goes for the GSP.

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Yup.  No quibbles there.

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@sylviebee wrote:

Again, you're saying that stating that an item was shipped via the GSP in the details section of a claim bumps it over to the folks at the GSP.   That makes no sense, and even it did.............

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Why doesn't it make sense?  For what it's worth, I'm not "stating" this as much as I'm reporting back and summarizing several board posts--some of them involving eBay staff--that have this information.

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@sylviebee wrote:

Since virtually no buyer is going to mention how the item was shipped it follows that the GSP doesn't get involved with claims unless and until sellers include them.  That's exactly what I've been saying all along.

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I'm not trying to rake you over the coals, Sylvie.  If someone with your extensive experience as a buyer and seller on eBay is having trouble getting the GSP claims process to work properly, it's apparent that the fault largely lies with eBay and Pitney Bowes.  Having said that, sellers should be getting some education on how this process works.  I found one discussion board thread on the .com site that makes reference to a webinar (though it seems it wasn't a good one) for sellers that includes this information.

The problem, as many of us know, is that the GSP is largely applied to listings where the seller doesn't realize it's been applied, and this is a recipe for disaster.  I do have to wonder how many sellers have left eBay as a result of being bamboozled into giving refunds for GSP-"enhanced" sales where damage in transit has occurred and finding that they have no recourse afterwards.

[sylviebee]

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@marnotom! wrote:

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I'm not trying to rake you over the coals, Sylvie.  

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marnotom!, I have never once felt that you are raking me over the coals.

I've been using logic and reason in an attempt to impose some order on your chaos. I've even provided real world examples showing how the process actually works, but you won't have it.

Instead of bringing your ideas into line with reality, you distort reality even further in an attempt to make reality line up with your thinking.

Like nailing Jello to the wall.

[marnotom!]

The concept that a seller is not responsible for safe delivery of an item shipped through the GSP once that item has been accepted by the Global Shipping Center is not an "idea".  It is part of the terms and conditions of the program and the reason why some sellers find the program attractive to use.

Because the seller is not responsible for the international leg of a GSP-forwarded item's passage, the seller would not be responsible for any damage claim made and should not be issuing refunds for damaged items.

There are many threads on the .com site and some posts on the .ca site stating how this is accomplished.  Some of these posts are by eBay staff.

If you've been making damage claims for items forwarded through the GSP and the refunds have been coming out of those sellers' electronic pockets, something has gone wrong.

QED.

[sylviebee]

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Yet more alternate facts.

Sellers are responsible for the safe delivery of items regardless of how the item is shipped.

Sellers who have insured an item shipped directly via the PO will be compensated for damage by the PO and it doesn't matter if the damage occurred en route to the GSP hub or en route to the buyer.

For those items shipped via the GSP, sellers have additional insurance against breakage from the GSP hub to the buyer.

Buyers have insurance against breakage regardless of how the item is shipped.

End of story.

Bye.

[marnotom!]

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@sylviebee wrote:

Sellers who have insured an item shipped directly via the PO will be compensated for damage by the PO. . .

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. . . because the seller is on record as having purchased the shipping and insurance for that item.

For an item forwarded through the GSP, the buyer is on record as having purchased the shipping and sundry fees including insurance for those that item.  The GSP is free to sellers, remember.  The seller has no agreement with Pitney Bowes for the transit of the item between Kentucky and its destination.  The buyer does, however.

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@sylviebee wrote:

For those items shipped via the GSP, sellers have additional insurance against breakage from the GSP hub to the buyer.

Buyers have insurance against breakage regardless of how the item is shipped.

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Sellers have no need for insurance for the item's safe transit between the Global Shipping Center and its destination because they don't need it.  

From http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/shipping-globally.html :

• If you purchase USPS insurance, it protects you only against any loss or damage to the package until it reaches the US shipping center. ShipCover insurance isn't available for Global Shipping Program shipments to the US shipping center.

• Although you're responsible for getting the package safely to the US shipping center, in general you won't be responsible if the item is damaged or lost during international shipping. For additional information, see the Global Shipping Program policies and FAQs. Undeliverable items may not be returned to you.

Buyers have access to eBay and PayPal's buyer protection schemes if they receive an item through eBay that's damaged in transit.  Insurance is for the seller's protection and peace of mind.  The buyer never needs it for an eBay sale.

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@sylviebee wrote:

Sellers are responsible for the safe delivery of items regardless of how the item is shipped.

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And for an item forwarded through the Global Shipping Program, that responsibility for safe delivery is to the Global Shipping Center in Kentucky, as noted in the page quoted.

End of story.  

[bobenis]

What is so convoluted is ebay NOT having a return/damage policy intact for processing GSP/PB damage claims/returns as the only method is via the seller so either way the seller gets involved and has no clue what is up.
That is why I have not filed a claim yet because the "item damaged during shipping" option is sent to the seller vs having a choice for it being GSP. 

[sylviebee]

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@bobenis wrote:

What is so convoluted is ebay NOT having a return/damage policy intact for processing GSP/PB damage claims/returns as the only method is via the seller so either way the seller gets involved and has no clue what is up.
That is why I have not filed a claim yet because the "item damaged during shipping" option is sent to the seller vs having a choice for it being GSP. 

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eBay certainly does have these policies in place for the GSP, and that policy is the same regardless of the method of shipping used.   That shouldn't concern you. 

Just file a case as you would for any other item and follow the prompts.  

For all the GSP cases I've filed the process has been no different than it is for any other item.  

[bobenis]

So does ebay intercept the claim if it is damaged due to shipping and the seller steps out?

[sylviebee]

I've filed several cases when items were shipped via the GSP and the process was no different than it is for any other item.

All of my communications were with sellers only.

Just go ahead and file the case.  

If the seller choses to involve the GSP after the fact that's up to the seller and has nothing to do with you.  Don't worry about that.

If anything the seller might be more giving if the GSP is involved because he knows that the GSP has his back.

[sylviebee]

P.S.:  There is nothing wrong with mentioning the GSP when you describe the issue.   A few sellers are still not in tune with the GSP and when you remind him that the GSP was involved that can only ease the situation in case the seller is belligerent.

[bobenis]

Well I had filed a case for shipping damage via the GSP a year ago on an amplifier that arrived damaged. 
When filed ebay stepped in and the seller was not involved at all. 
Ebay told me to keep the item and refunded me via the GSP but it appears this process might have changed. 
If I have to repack, ship back, wait, etc then it might not be worth all the of the headache. 

[sylviebee]

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@bobenis wrote:

Well I had filed a case for shipping damage via the GSP a year ago on an amplifier that arrived damaged. 
When filed ebay stepped in and the seller was not involved at all. 
Ebay told me to keep the item and refunded me via the GSP but it appears this process might have changed. 
If I have to repack, ship back, wait, etc then it might not be worth all the of the headache. 

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When sellers don't respond and take appropriate action eBay will step in and take care of it if/when you escalate the case.

When sellers respond eBay doesn't step in.

When items arrive damaged, one thing that may have changed, depending on when you filed the other case, is that now eBay insists that sellers pay return shipping if they want items back.

In addition, when the seller realizes that the item was shipped via the GSP he'll know that the GSP has his back so the process should go much more smoothly than cases did in the past.