A hole in the system where seller loses 100%?

[luckylegend]

I sold my gucci shoes to a buyer in UK and shipped it in a timely manner the next day.

They contacted in a week saying that they need to pay 20 pounds in customs to their country. They also said that upon refusal they will reject package and claim money back with paypal.

I called paypal and they confirmed that even if the tracking shows attempted delivery, if the last tracking does not show delivered then a full refund will be forced out of my account.

It leaves me with loss on delivery both ways (62*2=124cad) and commissions (40cad). Not even sure I get back my package.

Are we actually that vulnerable to such an extortion? That is simply sad. I don’t think anybody will ship international after such a burn, never again!

[luckylegend]

I did call them and they said that it doesn’t matter. What matters is if he got the package or not...

P.s: spoke to several reps and a manager

[sylviebee]

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@reallynicestamps wrote:

Your scammer can say what he wants. Whether Paypal will  refund him, particularly when you add all those threatening messages is another question.

That's exactly right.  The buyer has yet to even file a case.

I've opted to go car-less for a while, and when I get packages which require a signature and or a custom's payment getting to the postal outlet is now a PITA.

If PP refunds buyers when they don't pick up at the depot it suggests that shipping Signature Required is a very bad idea because that often requires a trip to the postal outlet and a lot buyers may just choose not to be bothered if they have that option.

I doubt that PP would sanction such a decision which is exactly the same as refusing a shipment because a payment is required.

[luckylegend]

Remember most buyers are honest and actually want the item. If they need it they will travel and pick it up at the post

[sylviebee]

Has the buyer been able to open a PayPal case?

[luckylegend]

They are still messaging me with threatening messages. I get a message everyday now. They can keep doing it for 21 days until the package will be sent back to me. Or until they give in and pay the customs and then I am open to a lot of other possibilities (SNADs, fake...) To be honest it’s stressful. I guess we have to wait and see... I didn’t forget about you. It’s my intention to message an update here asap

[sylviebee]

21 days is a very long time for a PO to hold a package.  A lot of countries only hold them for a few days and for me it's 15 days. 

I've always considered the worst thing that could happen when a buyer is required to pay taxes/duty is the threat of NFB and I'm still not sure about the scenario you described so I'm waiting to hear the outcome.

Careful with all that emailing back and forth because that's the type of thing that yields NFB.

[luckylegend]

What is NFB?

Ok so NEWS:

The item is still waiting collection at the post office near her. She opened an “item not received” with ebay
I called ebay and they told me they can’t do anything because it was purchased from UK ebay website.
I got refered to UK rep and he told me he can’t do anything now because the case was only opened today and they can only escalate it on september 26. So he told me I need to call back on september 26...

Also, I have no idea how it will be affecting my paypal account. Most probably my funds will be held now as soon as I receive a payment because of this nonsensical case.

Also it says on the notice the buyer got in the mail that it will be held for 21 calendar days before being sent back .

[ricarmic]

NFB = Negative Feed Back

PS as far as I know if a buyer leaves NFB because of taxes, duties, ebay will zap it for you......

PSPS I do not think it will affect your PAYPAL account in terms of other transactions, you've been around for a while and at least from an eBay perspective your record seems fine. Think of this the same as a "lost in the mail" situation, one of those on its own does not ruin one's PAYPAL account standing....

[luckylegend]

Thanks for the abbreviation. Yes I spoke about this with ebay they will remove negative feedback.

It took like a year for me to be able to get the funds instantly. Let’s hope you are right.

It’s so difficult to wait over a week to see how it plays out. For some reason I don’t feel assured 😕

Of course I will post an update as soon as there are new developments !

[ricarmic]

One of the hardest things to do as a seller is not to take this stuff personally and/or emotionally.

One has to think of this like a business, it is a normal part of business to have problem buyers, one has to compartmentalize this stuff as "business" and treat it like one would if we weren't the owner of the business.

This is of course very hard to do for us all, me included.

Hang in there, things will likely work out in the end, think of the other 99.9% of the great transactions you've had to date!

[pjcdn2005]

On both .ca and .com the seller would win an item not received case in this situation because the item is available for pickup.  But since the rules applied are based on the buyers site, hopefully the UK site has the same rule.  Make sure that you have entered the delivery confirmation.tracking number in the item not received case.

[rudisch0_1]

You Know I am giving up on this crooked company,tired of getting ripped off on fees

[luckylegend]

This would be retarded if their rules are different ... but when i spoke to like 4-5 reps before the buyer actually opened a case they guaranteed I win. It would be extremely unprofessional if they didn’t bother to realise that a UK buyer probably bought from their UK website -_-

Also they told me to call them september 26 as it’s the limit. I will call on the 25th because UK are like 8 hours ahead of Canada...

[luckylegend]

Are you selling from canada? I will look into these options.
I will see how it plays out for that case, because so far it’s my first and biggest yet bump in the road. But commissions sure do weigh heavily

[luckylegend]

She got a full refund from ebay even though the package is still waiting at the post. She can basically take the money she got refunded and go pick it up

[valuestore]

I would appeal if that occurred, at that point laws are broken it becomes theft(but I doubt they will do this). ..you will have proof by tracking. 

On another note buyer is clearly saying 'If I have to pay taxes I dont want it'.  that is an issue between the buyer and their government, if they disagree they can go lobby for a higher customs allowances outside buckingham palace..  You did everything right, shouldn't be penalized for it. 

[luckylegend]

I actually called ebay yesterday and they told me they will close the case and won’t send a refund. I got a confirmation a bit later.
But now I received a new message confirming the case is closed in buyer’s favour and that they will receive a refund.
Seller protection is not really existant.
I will try and exhaust any other possible venues to get justice done.
But everybody knows there is no justice in anything.
I just wish that all these reps I spoke to before, that assured me ebay got my back told me straight ahead before that in those cases I will lose my money. Instead they just say anything for you to get off the phone

[luckylegend]

Whoops
They apologised and reversed the case now again.
But I was informed they could still claim through paypal...
Next round, story is not over. Grab popcorn

[reallynicestamps]

But now I received a new message confirming the case is closed in buyer’s favour and that they will receive a refund.

Sometimes that means the buyer has been refunded from eBay's pocket not from the seller's. It's a courtesy refund.

But refunding when the item is available for pickup and the customer has flat out said the problem is import fees?  Some poor logic there.

Best of luck with PP.  Keep reminding them that this is a customs dispute and the shipment has been available for pickup since whenever.

Are you annoyed enough to call the Royal Mail post office where the package is being held and ask for it to be returned sooner?  Might work.

[luckylegend]

I actually did call them after it was reversed and they reversed it again.

The message I received “We've reviewed your concerns and have reversed the outcome of the case. You don't need to take any additional action to reimburse eBay for the refund paid to the buyer, and eBay will make no further attempts to seek reimbursement from you.

Because we decided in your favor, this case, any feedback left, and all detailed seller ratings left, will not affect your seller performance. In addition, any feedback left for this transaction will be removed.”

I am not sure they refunded the buyer, it looks like it’s possible that they refunded him from their pocket...

I tried calling canada post they said nothing can be done and recalling is not possible once it’s in the other country. I did think calling royal mail. But then even if I succeed the tracking will not show refused or awaiting pickup. Ebay does not use messages as proof. In fact they totally disregard them. They are not binding unlike what they tell us