Buyer Remorse?? Buyer fails to claims items 2 times........ requiring signature confirmation

[2010gohabsgo1]

Hello to all !

I have a situation, trusting has had many times amongst our ebay community.

Ebay member from Canada- sold to USA buyer on Oct.28,2018.

Items were delivered on Nov.8 2018 with tracking & signature confirmation, however, no authorized person available at buyers address to sign for items. 

Since then, USPS has rescheduled delivery today, without success.

I believe they will send items back to sender (me).

Since I sent items with tracking & insurance and assumed delivery charges back and forth, does buyer have recourse to claim buyer protection from Ebay for items not received  (even though it was evident that they did not follow through with missed delivery notice from USPS?)

If so, this opens up a loop hole for buyers (buyer remorse) when they know that they must sign in for delivery they might have had second thoughts following through with purchase...

Just don't claim delivery and claim you never received them and get I presume full refund from Ebay's protection plan...

Appreciate your input!!

[momcqueen]

I really don’t think the buyer can still open a claim under eBay BUT they most likely are able to do it with PayPal if they choose.

I’ll need to look for the right links to cite when I’m sitting at my desk tomorrow... unless someone else being helpful does that for me.

[reallynicestamps]

I don't have links either, but an unclaimed or refused shipment, like a shipment sent to an undeliverable address is not an accepted Dispute for Not Received under the Money Back Guarantee.

If you are concerned, on Monday phone Help and Contact at the bottom of this page and get their advice. Ask for a case number.

The overseas workers who are available on weekends seem to have less authority than the Utah customer reps, even though the Utah ones have really difficult accents.

[esclyons]

i have had the same thing happen just once,  but in my case the buyer wrote me they didn't want the item any more while it was in transit. I advised them to mark it return to sender, and that they would lose out on their shipping fee, and be responsible if i was charged for the return..turns out i was, so when i received the item back, i issued a refund minus the shipping fees.

In your case the first thing i would do is reach out to the seller, and see if there is a reason, why they didn't accept the package. then depending on their response, go from there.

[esclyons]

from ebay, help and support.

Here's what we found for "Refund amounts and timelines"

As a seller, you have 2 business days to refund the buyer after you've received their returned item. You can issue refunds through the returns dashboard.

If the item wasn't in the expected condition, or didn't match the listing description, the refund amount is the total price of the item, including original shipping costs. You're also responsible for paying for return shipping costs and you may not deduct a restocking fee from the refund amount.

If the item was returned for any other reason, the refund amount is the total price minus the original shipping cost and your restocking fee (if you had specified one in your return policy). You or the buyer may be responsible for return shipping costs, according to your return policy.

If you cancel a sale after the buyer paid, you have 10 days to refund them the total price of the item.

[momcqueen · Accepted solution]

Here are the full terms of the ebay MoneyBack Guarantee. Bookmark it, I cannot ever find it when I want it without the bookmark. 

https://www.ebay.ca/pages/help/policies/money-back-guarantee.html

Specifically, you are concerned about: 

Generally, the buyer is responsible for accepting the item when it arrives. If the buyer refuses delivery, their claim is not eligible for the eBay Money Back Guarantee.

However! If the buyer opens their case via Paypal, I suspect that you're stuck refunding them regardless of their role in this. I'd need to check the Seller and Buyer Protections under Paypal's latest Terms and Conditions but I have to leave now and I won't return until later today, maybe someone else can do it for me....? If not, I'll reply when I return. Or try to search Paypal for their take on this type of situation. 

[reallynicestamps]

On the third hand-- If a buyer does the Dispute through Paypal, the return shipping is paid by the buyer.

This is an offset to the longer deadline for Disputes.

So.... yes the buyer gets his purchase price paid, but I'm not sure how Paypal would handle the shipping cost.

Should it be refunded too?

How about doorstep return shipping charges-- something I've never seen personally with Canada Post, but could happen with USPS or with a courier?

And then there is the new Managed Payments/Ayden which is still shaking out.  tyler@ebay  any comments?

[pjcdn2005]

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@reallynicestamps wrote:

On the third hand-- If a buyer does the Dispute through Paypal, the return shipping is paid by the buyer.

This is an offset to the longer deadline for Disputes.

So.... yes the buyer gets his purchase price paid, but I'm not sure how Paypal would handle the shipping cost.

Should it be refunded too?

How about doorstep return shipping charges-- something I've never seen personally with Canada Post, but could happen with USPS or with a courier?

And then there is the new Managed Payments/Ayden which is still shaking out.  tyler@ebay  any comments?

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If the buyer hasn't picked up the parcel which is what seems to be happening in this case, they aren't going to be paying for return shipping ahead of time.  If the seller was charged by CP for return shipping, then they would have to try and recover it from the buyer.

If the buyer did file a claim with Paypal, they are likely to receive a refund in full because there is no delivery confirmation showing to the buyer.  PP doesn't have the same policy as ebay regarding a package not being picked up.  I suppose they may make exceptions in some cases but there is nothing writing to support that.  If the seller did refund before a claim was filed, they could refund through PP less original and return shipping but its posssible that PP would refund that portion if the buyer filed a claim after that

[momcqueen]

https://www.paypal.com/webapps/mpp/ua/useragreement-full

I'm staring at the Paypal User Agreement, specifically the section that involves PayPal’s Purchase Protection Program. While it talks about things like items picked up in person it makes no mention (unlike ebay) that I can find where there are circumstances such as you describe. 

I think the buyer would be within their rights under Paypal to open and win an Item Not Received claim. That being said, I would wait until one is opened.

Have you considered messaging the buyer or calling that destination post office to ask what the problem may be with pick-up? 

[retroman_studios]

I think in this case, the issue is that there is no case, as in the buyer has not opened a case.....yet. If a case were to be opened, it would be best to do it via eBay as then if buyer tries to open PayPal dispute, PayPal upon notification that an eBay case was closed and customer received refund in accordance to eBay policy, would close the case.

So, my advice is to monitor the package. If it is not delivered, then call eBay and request instructions.

Of course, it's entirely possible that the customer is having issues that prevent them from receiving the package such as a medical emergency.

[ricarmic]

First rule of thumb, never totally trust the USPS (or Canada post) updates.

(I'm assuming you're looking at the USPS updates and not the CP version right the USPS updates are usually much more current)

I've had false versions of those before.

I'm assuming you've never heard anything from the buyer.

I've had stuff received by the buyer that shows like this (as never delivered).

I've had stuff initially routed to the wrong address (close by), there were even notifications that it was being returned to sender and in actual fact it was simply re routed to the correct address.

I've had buyers go on vacation for a few weeks and make a deal with their PO to keep the packages in the back room for them.

There are many versions of how these messages can be generated when there in fact is no problem (the posties only have so many options to "tick" if the item isn't delivered yet so they'll pick the closest thing)

I would wait until you hear something from the buyer.

If it is causing undo worry doing that, I would:

-message them both in ebay messaging and their personal email address (from the paypal payment) asking if everything is ok

-if that doesn't work phone them and see what's up

Based on my experiences with disconcerting messages like this, they are almost always misleading. Of course it is that 3% that aren't misleading that we all remember too much!

[tyler@ebay]

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@reallynicestamps wrote:

On the third hand-- If a buyer does the Dispute through Paypal, the return shipping is paid by the buyer.

This is an offset to the longer deadline for Disputes.

So.... yes the buyer gets his purchase price paid, but I'm not sure how Paypal would handle the shipping cost.

Should it be refunded too?

How about doorstep return shipping charges-- something I've never seen personally with Canada Post, but could happen with USPS or with a courier?

And then there is the new Managed Payments/Ayden which is still shaking out.  tyler@ebay  any comments?

---

Thanks for the tag @reallynicestamps! To your specific question, there is no change to the handling of Money Back Guarantee claims based on the processor that is used - whether it be PayPal or Managed Payments.  

Hi @2010gohabsgo1 - from an eBay perspective if the tracking scans as 'unclaimed' or 'return to sender' or something like that then they have no recourse through eBay Money Back Guarantee. As other's have mentioned though, I'm not certain how things would be handled if a claim was opened with PayPal. 

[2010gohabsgo1]

Believe Paypal offers longer dispute period 180 days...
Thanks

[2010gohabsgo1]

Thanks for your assistance. Will hold tight and look for buyer comment (if any). Just getting back from your Thanksgiving weekend from upper NY state, will definitely give it a try with Ebay's help & contact!

[2010gohabsgo1]

Your right, communication is still the best route to follow through with.
Unfortunately, I have reached out on 2 separate occasions to the buyer- without success. (No reply).
Will withhold all inherent extra selling fees, for sure..
Thx for your feedback

[2010gohabsgo1]

Thanks for your comments, will keep it in mind in case refund is warranted to buyer.

[2010gohabsgo1]

Let's hope they go the route under Ebay's protection plan:)
Many thanks on your insightful assistance!

[2010gohabsgo1]

Many thanks on your insightful assistance!!

[2010gohabsgo1]

Reached out already twice to buyer without success (reply), and USPS basically says no authorized recipient available at destination, they did reschedule delivery on Nov. 23, however, no update since then. Moreover, last few tel attempts at USPS, waiting period at customer service USPS line is about 1 hour min..

[2010gohabsgo1]

Will keep close monitor on any new open cases through either site, thx!