Buyer filled a payment institution dispute on a For Parts or Not Working item and WON!!

[itolduandso]

I got off the phone with ebay and frustrating as it is.. Ebay doesn't do anything about it. 

I sold a player for repair or spare parts and I clearly indicated it doesn't work, I indicated in the description the buyer assumes the risk and responsibility to get it working agan. I selected correct condition For Parts or Not Working. I provided pictures showing the item not working and the pictures show the error.

Buyer complained first to me he was expecting a new item. 

When I refused to organize the return, the buyer filled a dispute saying the item is fake and counterfeit (total nonsense, it's not gucci bag), it's a vintage video player. 

Ebay case got decided in my favor.

The buyer then open the case with his payment institution. The case came in as item not as described. I spoke with ebay and they assured me I just need to provide screenshots of the order, the listing, the case and the communication with the buyer and attach it to the case.

I did that, all attached, ebay sent me message it has submitted the information to buyers financial insitution.

One months later the decission came in. Decided in buyers favor.

I got not only reversed sale on the transaction but I also got slapped 20 USD payment dispute fee which ebay saying it's not an Ebay fee but the buyers insitution payment disput fee.

I spent an hour arguing with EBay on the phone. No chance. Got to suck it up. Buyer can essentially lie and say I sent stones in there and get away with it. 

There is no ebay protection at all, this is a joke, ebay protection doesn't apply to payment disputes.

WHAT else to say..

[dobo5250]

i feel sorry for you as this is a case where ebay should have stepped in and made the payment provider  back down they have the clout don't you think ? or take it on their chin themselves and cover you as they promised --was this a  customer in canada or in some other part of the world ?i hope it was not too expensive a hit --- good luck in your further journies here on the lovely land of ebay 

[flipistics]

Try contacting eBay through social media. The people there have more authority to act. Never deal with the phone reps. Make sure you stress that eBay had already found in your favour so you believe you should be covered by the seller protection policy. I believe there is a formal appeal process for payment dispute decisions as well, so maybe look into that too. eBay has automated a lot of stuff, so it's likely that a human never reviewed the case (which is what you want to happen with an appeal).

Because of the reason they gave for the payment dispute, you can also file a postal fraud report. It won't change anything, but there's a slight chance it'll discourage them from doing it in the future. Report the buyer to eBay as well.

For payment disputes where they claim INAD or a fake item it's generally going to be tough to win a case, especially if the buyer asked to return it and you refused (regardless of your return policy). A bank is almost never going to side against their client in a situation like that.

For whatever it's worth, I've had one person (in total) try to do a chargeback against me and I won the case. Not all decisions go against a seller.

[marnotom!]

It's very difficult for merchants to prevail in "Item Not As Described" payment disputes (or chargebacks) for "card not present" transactions.  The card issuer will often if not usually grant the chargeback to the buyer as a goodwill gesture as the issuer wants to keep the cardholder's business.  I'm a bit surprised that you prevailed in the original eBay case filed against you, actually, but I guess the reasoning was that if the buyer were to subsequently file a dispute/chargeback for the same reason, they would be unlikely to prevail with the evidence that you were able to provide.  Unfortunately, the buyer switched tactics when they escalated the matter to their card issuer.

The information page on seller protections for payment disputes states that there will be seller protection in a chargeback if eBay determines that the seller met their obligations to the buyer.  If you prevailed in the Money Back Guarantee claim, you could have some immunity against a chargeback, but the buyer filing for a different reason may have put the kibosh on your protections.  Did you point out to eBay customer service that you'd already prevailed in a MBG case for an INAD?

[reallynicestamps]

When I refused to organize the return,

That's when you lost.

You can abandon the item and refund. (No returns)

Or you can pay for return shipping and refund.

But you cannot have a No Refunds policy.

If you had accepted the return ,you might have a saleable item to relist and resell.

[itolduandso]

Ebay allows refusing returns on for parts or repair items.  So clearly this doesn't make sense for Ebay even to have that option.

The moment there is a case opened, even if the case is closed and marked as resolved, buyer can still file a paymant dispute and since there is a case, ebay will always rule in favor of the buyer and back-charge the seller. 

If, however, buyer had not opened the case in ebay but went directly to payment insitution filing payment dispute, then ebay seller protection policy would cover the seller and the seller would not get back-charged. 

In any case, no point to have no-returns policy as an option available in ebay if it has no effect at all. Buyer who wants to return will file return and find a why to complain something is wrong with it no matter what, to get a free return, or is willing to pay for the return if he or she feels a remorse.

[flipistics]

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@itolduandso wrote:

Ebay allows refusing returns on for parts or repair items.  So clearly this doesn't make sense for Ebay even to have that option.

The moment there is a case opened, even if the case is closed and marked as resolved, buyer can still file a paymant dispute and since there is a case, ebay will always rule in favor of the buyer and back-charge the seller. 

If, however, buyer had not opened the case in ebay but went directly to payment insitution filing payment dispute, then ebay seller protection policy would cover the seller and the seller would not get back-charged. 

In any case, no point to have no-returns policy as an option available in ebay if it has no effect at all. Buyer who wants to return will file return and find a why to complain something is wrong with it no matter what, to get a free return, or is willing to pay for the return if he or she feels a remorse.

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If a buyer opens a payment dispute while also having an eBay case open, the eBay case is automatically closed (not in anyone's favour) and it's exactly the same as if they filed the payment dispute only. As far as I know, there should be no difference between the two in terms of seller protection. It's also not eBay making the decision. The payment provider of the BUYER makes the decision. eBay DOES provide sellers some limited protection in certain situations even if they lose the dispute.

[marnotom!]

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@itolduandso wrote:

If, however, buyer had not opened the case in ebay but went directly to payment insitution filing payment dispute, then ebay seller protection policy would cover the seller and the seller would not get back-charged. 

---

Are you sure about that? That doesn’t sound right to me.  

In my earlier post, I speculated that you may have prevailed in the eBay INAD case as there was a disconnect between the nature of the case the buyer filed and the nature of your item and your listing and if a chargeback were filed for the same reason, there was a good chance the credit card issuer would disallow it because of that disconnect.  But that's not a given.

[itolduandso]

The case was closed. There was no open case. I have confirmed the case closed with the ebay agent on the phone who closed the case and I received email informing me the case resolved.  Then 3 weeks went by and the payment dispute was filed. 

[itolduandso]

Yes, 100%. There is no opened cases and I called ebay to inquire. They told me there is no case filed through ebay, it's a payment dispute filed from bank and therefore I am protected. Now. I haven't recorded the conversation but even if I record it, what is the point of doing it. It's better to do a chat for that. In any case, I received email from Ebay saying, you are protected by seller protection when the bank decides the case or something like that. In any case, if there is an issue with the item, the buyer MUST file the case in ebay and not via payment institution. Since there is not case of item not delivered or not as described, there should be no issue on my end. What is is the point of seller protection then if not exactly these narrowly defined cases?