Buyer requesting refund.

[jason_king_zero]

Hi,
I recently sold an item to a buyer who after receiving it is unhappy and wants a refund.
He’s stating that the item is not mint and wants to return it.
In my original listing I provided 6 sided photos of the item clearing showing the condition of the item.
No where in my listings to I ever say my items are mint condition. I just show all angles of the item and that’s it.
He bought the item and before he’s sends payment he messages me asking if the items are mint because of the price he’s paying on them.
I tell him the items are in good shape and that they will be well protected in shipping , including soft protectors, then individual bubble wrapping of each item…then all of that bubble wrapped….all of which I have photos of before I shipped.
I contacted eBay support and at first they said I should just accept the return of the item…which I have to pay for.
I didn’t agree with this so I was sent to talk to someone else.
He told me to contact the buyer with the photos of shipping proving I did everything in my power to protect the items and to wait for eBay to make a decision.
So I did that and obviously the buyer is not happy.
Upon further looking online …almost always the buyer wins these disputes. So…my question is what happens if eBay decides to side with the buyer after all this? Am I out of the proxy ring returned to me and I’m forced to fully refund? Or do that tell me to send label for return and I’m out shipping??
Thank you

[jason_king_zero]

Okay…so…small recap and update.

First he says I hid damage in my ad and that the photos are too far away. I said I posted 6 sided photos. Not far away. If you had questions before buying you could have asked before buying.

I asked…did it get damaged in shipping? Because I took the utmost care in packing it? He says no. Then box arrived safe. I sent the photos of me boxing up the package so he and eBay would have proof. They show none of the damage that he claims . He says I must of switched the items and my picture prove nothing. This is highly impossible because the items are vaulted years ago and I cannot simply buy a bunch of these , nor would I ( these are my personal collection) .

He gets upset. Says he don’t want to talk about it anymore.

Then this morning …he send me a photos of the shipping box damaged. Lol. Yeah…the one he said wasn’t previously. Saying it was damaged in shipping.

So I immediately call eBay. They see all of our conversations and pictures. And said they can’t do anything until the claim closes still…but to open a damage claim through the carrier for him. But they also say that this all seems a little suspicious now. Especially where his story keeps changing.
So i messaged him to inform him I will open a claim and if he wants to send photos to help with his claim to do so. He said he will.

Now…with all this documented on eBay messaging for eBay to see…do I actually have a case with this if it goes past the claim date and eBay steps in?

[marnotom!]

---

@jason_king_zero wrote:

Now…with all this documented on eBay messaging for eBay to see…do I actually have a case with this if it goes past the claim date and eBay steps in?

---

You're still treating this like a court case and trying to prove that you're "right" when you should be trying to salvage the sale and minimize the damage to your bottom line.

You're actually afforded a very modest amount of "protection" if you accept the return request and get that shipping label to the buyer before eBay steps in. Your buyer may be thinking that because they're in the States and you're in Canada you can't send them a US return label and their chance of keeping the item for free increases, but while tricky, it is possible for Canadian sellers to send US buyers USPS return shipping labels.

All that evidence to eBay is nice, but my sense is that it's going to end up going on the buyer's file to be used as background info if they file more return requests like this.  If they continue to make questionable returns, they're going to lose access to the Money Back Guarantee.

More info on returns of "not as described" items (and other stuff):

https://www.ebay.ca/help/policies/selling-policies/seller-protections?id=4345

[mrdutch1001]

Since you have totally ignored all advice about accepting a return and proceding with that process and are hellbent on continuing to do your own thing with calling eBay, I guess what ever happens , happens as there is little any of us can  do or say to satisfy your questioning what eBay will do...We DON"T know what eBay will do or won't do! ...that's now between you, the buyer and eBay.. so deal with it!!

Que Sera, Sera!

[jason_king_zero]

Umm…not ignoring anyone. I’m was actually going to go ahead with the return this morning. But seeing how his story keeps changing…and now he went from saying the package wasn’t damaged to now all of a sudden it is just proves that he is trying to weasel out of the sale.
And maybe everyone is still right. Even with all this evidence ebay will not care at all.
But…this is the first time it’s happened to me and maybe someone has gone through this with a different t outcome. Maybe not. Who knows. That the point of these message boards. Sometimes it’s not best to take the first bit of advice given. And that goes for anything really.

[jason_king_zero]

Well..it is kinda like a court case. No. I mean I felt like I was being conned from the get go. And now his story changed again. Doc by me asking questions and being persistent im getting to the bottom of it.
And maybe none of that matters. And I should just move on. I have a couple days before this comes to a head.
Im just looking for info that’s all. I really don’t like being taken advantage of. Most people would feel the same way I do.

[mrdutch1001]

You are now saying " I felt like I was being conned from the get go"...so why did you not just cancel the sale from the get go?

[jason_king_zero]

I meant as soon as he opened the claim. I knew something was wrong when he kept saying that that I hid defects in my pictures….and the his story snowballed from there.
I appreciate your help. And I understand your stance is refund and walk away. I’m just looking for other opinions and maybe hoping to find someone with a similar story as mine that has a different outcome. You don’t need to reply to this thread anymore. I really wasn't trying to offend you or anyone else by not accepting your suggestion. Thanks again. Cheers 👍🏻

[jason_king_zero]

So…I guess I’m looking for an answer I’m not going to find. And that’s okay. I think I’m going to open damage claim with Canada post…and once that’s opened I’ll send a return label to buyer. Refund him when I get the package. And hopefully recoup the losses through my Canada post claim. Good idea?? Not a good idea?? 

[mrdutch1001]

Only a wee percentage of sellers come to the forums to discuss problems, issues,etc, so there will not be a huge amount of data to draw from and not all circumstances will be same, there will be different scenarios, and the outcomes will vary...there is no set in stone result...

This will all be a lesson learned and may help you in the future.

It is what it is, so go with whatever you have decided and hope for the best.

[ricarmic]

@jason_king_zero just a side note, the "due date" is actually 12:01 on that date, so if it says April 13th you have to do something before midnight on the 12th otherwise the bots will do their magic at 12:03 AM on the 13th.

I learned this the hard way......

[pjcdn2005]

eBay wants to retain buyers.  They do not want to be judge and jury and decide who is right or if the buyer is being reasonable.  They want sellers to handle buyer problems, they do not want to be asked to step in and make a decision. When they are asked to step in, they are going to decide in the buyers favor 99.95% of the time.    Keep in mind they don't know what the product looked like when you sent it or when the buyer received it.

If you do not accept the return and eBay has to make the decision, they will almost certainly rule in the buyers favor and force you  to refund him without getting the item back.  You will also receive an unresolved case defect.  If you have more than 2 defects your seller status goes below standard and your seller fees increase.  

If you accept the return, issue a label and refund on return you can say that the buyer misused the money back guarantee and you may get a little money back.  The following page has some info about seller protection, make sure you click on the + sign next to 'Read more about ...'.

https://www.ebay.ca/help/policies/selling-policies/seller-protections?id=4345&st=3&pos=1&query=Selle...

As others have suggested it is best to accept the return without argument. It's possible that the buyer had just changed their mind but when you wouldn't agree to the return, they damaged the box to 'prove' that the item wasn't mint.  That wasn't the right thing to do on the buyers part but when someone doesn't want an item, it rarely turns out well if you try to force them to keep it.

[jason_king_zero]

Yeah. I’m totally getting that eBay is putting the sellers and buyers into the position of resolving issues. Which…in my case…and in most I would think turns kinda ugly.
I think I’ll issue return label…refund when I receive my return and hope to recoup losses somehow. Thanks

[pjcdn2005]

If the package is less than 4 lbs, it can be sent back using usps first class international. You may be able to purchase a label through Shippo or Pirateship.  Ask the buyer to write merchandise return on the customs form.

[jason_king_zero]

Awesome. Yeah I’m going to find the cheapest option to get this back to me. I think it’s around $45-$50 through Canada post/usps. But I haven’t checked yet. Thanks

[reallynicestamps]

@jason_king_zero 

You can buy a USPS return shipping label through Shippo.

https://apps.goshippo.com/login?next=https://app.goshippo.com/orders/manual/

It must be easy because I have done it.

You will need your Solutions for Small Business discount number from Canada Post to open a Shippo account if you don't already have one. https://www.canadapost-postescanada.ca/cpc/en/business/small-business.page?

Start the return for refund BEFORE you start anything with Canada Post.

There is a deadline of midnight on Wednesday.

[jason_king_zero]

Thanks. I have a small business account with Canada post set up for local shipping discounts. I’ll definitely look into this. Thank you.
So you think I should start the return / refund with the buyer before opening claim with Canada post ??

[marnotom!]

---

@jason_king_zero wrote:

So you think I should start the return / refund with the buyer before opening claim with Canada post ??

---

Given how little time you have left to issue the mailing label, I'd highly recommend initiating the refund process now, if not sooner, just in case there's any glitches along the way.

[msau4301]

---

@jason_king_zero wrote:
I think I’ll issue return label…refund when I receive my return and hope to recoup losses somehow. Thanks

---

Yes and do it quick, quick, quick as others have said time is slipping away. I've not (luckily!) had to issue a return label for US but do not leave it to the last minute, you never know what glitches, power outages, or anything unforeseen that could happen. Just do it! Anything else (Canada Post claim etc) you can do later to try and recoup like you say! As much as you feel wronged, just put on your smile and wave face and deal with the next step after you've done the most important part (the return label!)

Keep us posted, we're routing for you but you have to do it quick. Bring us back some good news!

(Hoping to check back later and see you update it has been done!)🤞

[sparx_63]

Hello

I don't know if this will help or not , but here goes.  I find about 1-1.5 % of my sales have issues with damage or "percieved" damage when shipped.  If the item has been insured, I IMMEDIATELY refund the buyer and initiate the claim.  Works every time. You get your money back and the buyer KEEPS the item.  The buyer is always pleased with the outcome (keeping money and item) and the issue is resolved.  You get your money as if you have completed the sale.  Dealing with returns and less than desirable customers is part of doing business with EBAY...so develop a business plan to deal with this when it ocurs (and it absolutely will, it happens to all of us)

As a side note, don't make a business transaction personal. Always seek the best outcome for BOTH parties. Making correct decisions early alleviates your anxiety. 

Also, please realize that people in this forum are taking their valuable time help you and show you the correct path to take.  Most, if not all, have travelled it already.  Getting free advice is amazing, it is much better than paying to "learn" the lesson.

[jason_king_zero]

Thanks for the input. I’m just learning all my options now. I didn’t think of refund and open claim right away. I’ll probably do that next time.

In this case though I can’t. He’s not responding back to me photos of the damage so I can’t open a claim. He just sent me a close up photo of dent in a shipping box. That’s it.

And I also agree to accept the return. I just asked him if he could get a box for the items to ship back to me. I told him I just need the dimensions of the box to create a shipping label for him. And nothing. No response.
So now I don’t know what to do. Lol