Changes to returns process/procedures?

hlmacdon
Community Member

Issue: How to handle remorse return request opened as a not as described return request. I’ll preface this by noting this pertained to a listing on .com.

 

I had a return request that fit the above scenario this evening. From the return details and the listing description it was an objective, clear cut case where the buyer did not read the listing description. The prior procedure recommended by ebay reps to deal with this was to call in and request an SR#, advise the customer the return would be approved but as it was a remorse return for a correctly listed and described item that they would have to pay the return shipping costs. Once the item was received the seller was to refund the item cost via paypal and post a screen shot of the refund in the return request so a rep could see the item cost had been refunded, whereupon they would close the request and issue a FVF credit.

 

The rep I spoke (US customer service) to informed me that they were no longer able to use this manual work around and sellers would have to accept a return request, regardless of the reason stated, if they had a return policy. The rep agreed the return request was opened incorrectly and it was a remorse return. To deal with this I was told there is an interim process they can use where a seller can be refunded for the return label and FVF. When the return is received the seller calls in and the rep issues the buyer a refund for both the item and the shipping paid and refunds the FVF and return label costs to the seller. The catch here is that the original shipping cost is not refunded to the seller, whereas for a remorse return request the seller has the option to withhold that amount (my main concern here, not the return).  The rep also noted that the internal discussion among staff was that they were moving towards a mandatory free 30 day no questions asked return model for sellers and alluded to this being the reason for the process change and that I should prepare accordingly as this new process was an interim measure and refunds moving forward were not guaranteed. The changes to the return process in the Fall and Spring updates are likely the source of confusion for the reps as they cover automation of returns as well as TRS Plus return requirements.

 

This may be a .com vs .ca difference but it is worth reviewing as many of us list on both and how a rep can deal with this scenario effects sellers regardless of where we list. I suspect there may be some rep confusion, but the rep was adamant and was fully aware of the previous workaround. From a quick look at the seller forums, we have community reps contradicting this as recently as yesterday here and here indicating that sellers can still opt to withhold original shipping costs for remorse returns. On other websites reps are confirming the same. In both cases, it is clear there is internal confusion over how to actually handle this scenario.

 

tyler@ebay  @happy_pigeon

 

Can you please confirm if the rep guidance on this change was indeed correct and what the correct process should be for sellers in this scenario? I realize it may be complicated with differences existing between .ca and .com but it would be helpful to know if procedures would be different between the two sites. It would probably make sense to have the Returns Product Manager issue a memo with clear guidance as there is confusion among staff at the phone and community rep level, and the website isn’t much help in this respect either. On a related note I noticed the Spring Seller update on the ebay Canada website (https://pages.ebay.ca/seller-centre/news/seller-updates/2018-spring/simplified-returns.html#returns) still references US .com information. Are we still waiting for Candian-specfic details to be hammered out?

Message 1 of 26
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Changes to returns process/procedures?

Lately too much remorse returns. In the past i had one two returns per year now its getting out of control.

And then again we came to the  customer service .Everything  depends on person whom you are talking  .Just yesterday a customer service representative stated that he cant see the pictures of the returned item that i uploaded because he dont have tools . Has anybody heard something like this .And then the representative  did not mentioned  that im requesting a call from a manager .

tyler@ebay  @happy_pigeon

So far in the past six months i had the best experience ever ( im sarcastic ) .Just refund the scammers  until you can .

Im a top rated seller and i ship worldwide .Since i start to sell i have 30 days return policy .Well after all my experience (scammed,threatened,fouled ) im considering to change my return policy to not accept returns. I do not offer samples im seller.

If eBay honored my return policy why i need to fight all the time for it when i deal with scammers.

Ah and since when a buyer could sent a threatening message to a seller and this to be completely  fine by eBay  ? I even was told that if this buyer leave me a negative feedback they can not  guarantee that the feedback will be remove it .  

 

PROPOSITION 

Its time for  emails from customer seller support so we could have black and white what happened exactly .With a case ID etc.

Its time that eBay starts to offer a better customer service 

Change the way how the customer should be refund it .There is a different cases .

eBay should stop allowing buyers to open more than one return for the same item .

 

 

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Changes to returns process/procedures?

"Just yesterday a customer service representative stated that he cant see the pictures of the returned item that i uploaded because he dont have tools . Has anybody heard something like this" 

 

Yes. This correlates with a comment I heard from one of the most frustrating conversations that I have ever had in my life with Customer Service. The rep indicated he was literally unable to view the evidence I required him to look at to prove my case for having a negative feedback removed because it was in the form of a photo. Like, he didn't have the tools to view pictures. It also sounded like he was taking my call from a tin shipping crate filled with 358 other reps as it was tumbling down a mountainside.

 

Having had only a handful of such terrible calls (and none recently) I can only assume that some of ebay's Customer Service queries are funnelled into the worst of some third-world condition call centre located somewhere I'm blessed enough to not live for no reason that I deserve. Where the reps are piled on top of one another sharing a single computer screen per 25 reps in a 10-ft square space. Because that is certainly the way it sounds.

 

Try calling during regular business hours. It might help if you can connect with a different rep. 

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Changes to returns process/procedures?

Thanks very much for your detailed post. Unfortunately, US policies aren't my wheelhouse and I can't comment on them. There are many differences between US and CA (as everyone is aware) and some of them are very subtle. I don't want to unintentionally give misleading info.

 

If this were to occur on eBay.ca, I would imagine that it would be handled very similarly to the way you initially laid it out. However, I think these topics are much more the strength of tyler@ebay. I think this scenario is well worth bringing up in the next Weekly Chat session, and I suggest you give it a try because he'll probably be able to give you a much better answer than I.

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Changes to returns process/procedures?

tyler@ebay
Community Member
@hlmacdon wrote (truncated):

 

 The rep also noted that the internal discussion among staff was that they were moving towards a mandatory free 30 day no questions asked return model for sellers and alluded to this being the reason for the process change and that I should prepare accordingly as this new process was an interim measure and refunds moving forward were not guaranteed.

 

This may be a .com vs .ca difference but it is worth reviewing as many of us list on both and how a rep can deal with this scenario effects sellers regardless of where we list. I suspect there may be some rep confusion, but the rep was adamant and was fully aware of the previous workaround. 

 

Can you please confirm if the rep guidance on this change was indeed correct and what the correct process should be for sellers in this scenario? I realize it may be complicated with differences existing between .ca and .com but it would be helpful to know if procedures would be different between the two sites.

Howdy @hlmacdon -

 

We are working with the right teams to get clarification on this (for both .ca and .com). Though, typically, .ca policies mirror .com fairly universally so the answers may be the same

 

The information shared in mid-march was accurate at that time, and I'm glad to see that she was able to get the Help Pages updated to reflect remorse return policy correctly.

 

In a scenario where a buyer states that an item was not as described, but has demonstrated elsewhere that it is a remorse return we currently ask you to accept the return and work with CS on any other options available.

 

I don't have information on what the future holds for return policies and shipping costs, but I will keep you posted as I hear back!

Tyler,
eBay
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Changes to returns process/procedures?


tyler@ebaywrote:

Howdy @hlmacdon -

 

We are working with the right teams to get clarification on this (for both .ca and .com). Though, typically, .ca policies mirror .com fairly universally so the answers may be the same

 

The information shared in mid-march was accurate at that time, and I'm glad to see that she was able to get the Help Pages updated to reflect remorse return policy correctly.

 

In a scenario where a buyer states that an item was not as described, but has demonstrated elsewhere that it is a remorse return we currently ask you to accept the return and work with CS on any other options available.

 

I don't have information on what the future holds for return policies and shipping costs, but I will keep you posted as I hear back!


Hi tyler@ebay thanks for the follow up. I just got off the phone with a rep that seemed to be better versed in the situation. They indicated that the gist of the change is this is an ebay marketing driven decision to allow all buyers to be able to return items for any reason and receive a full refund. The process for sellers is to accept the return request, and then upon receiving the item to call in to customer service and they would treat it like an appeals process. Any discretionary element the seller once had is now yanked. At the discretion of the rep the seller can be refunded both the return shipping cost as well as the original postage in cases where the seller has done nothing wrong as in the example of a remorse return opened as a not as described.

 

Hopefully the appropriate teams and product manager can get this sorted out with clear internal communication and guidance to sellers. Please keep us posted on what you find for .ca/.com and I would add that given the costs of domestic and international postage there needs to be clear guidance on how this applies to domestic and international transactions.  I can imagine a scenario with a seller having an international remorse return, being out the original shipping costs and getting stuck with associated import fees. I hope the appropriate product manager has actually though that end to end process through as there is potential for this to be a gigantic mess.

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Changes to returns process/procedures?

This sounds an awful lot (though not exactly) like some of the inner workings of the ‘free returns’ program about which there was a webinar offered earlier this year.
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Changes to returns process/procedures?


@hlmacdonwrote:

tyler@ebaywrote:

Howdy @hlmacdon -

 

We are working with the right teams to get clarification on this (for both .ca and .com). Though, typically, .ca policies mirror .com fairly universally so the answers may be the same

 

The information shared in mid-march was accurate at that time, and I'm glad to see that she was able to get the Help Pages updated to reflect remorse return policy correctly.

 

In a scenario where a buyer states that an item was not as described, but has demonstrated elsewhere that it is a remorse return we currently ask you to accept the return and work with CS on any other options available.

 

I don't have information on what the future holds for return policies and shipping costs, but I will keep you posted as I hear back!


Hi tyler@ebay thanks for the follow up. I just got off the phone with a rep that seemed to be better versed in the situation. They indicated that the gist of the change is this is an ebay marketing driven decision to allow all buyers to be able to return items for any reason and receive a full refund. The process for sellers is to accept the return request, and then upon receiving the item to call in to customer service and they would treat it like an appeals process. Any discretionary element the seller once had is now yanked. At the discretion of the rep the seller can be refunded both the return shipping cost as well as the original postage in cases where the seller has done nothing wrong as in the example of a remorse return opened as a not as described.

 

Hopefully the appropriate teams and product manager can get this sorted out with clear internal communication and guidance to sellers. Please keep us posted on what you find for .ca/.com and I would add that given the costs of domestic and international postage there needs to be clear guidance on how this applies to domestic and international transactions.  I can imagine a scenario with a seller having an international remorse return, being out the original shipping costs and getting stuck with associated import fees. I hope the appropriate product manager has actually though that end to end process through as there is potential for this to be a gigantic mess.


Recently on the US boards the reps there were telling sellers that they could no longer call in early to get a snad closed when it was obvious that it was a remorse return BUT that they should communicate with the buyer within the return that the return wasn't remorse and that they were going to either refuse the return (if they had a no return policy) or allow the return but the buyer had to pay for return shipping. The reps stressed that it was important that the seller had to communicate with the buyer within the return. Then after 3 business days, the seller could ask ebay to step in and the reps would read the information in the returns messages area and make a decision. Some sellers reported that they did win in those situations because it was obvious when the return was opened that it was a remorse return.

 

But in the last couple of days there have been reports of cs telling sellers something similar that you were told...they had to accept the return.  As far as I can tell the board reps haven't really clarified that yet so there are lots of confused and upset sellers right now.

 

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Changes to returns process/procedures?


@pjcdn2005wrote:

Recently on the US boards the reps there were telling sellers that they could no longer call in early to get a snad closed when it was obvious that it was a remorse return BUT that they should communicate with the buyer within the return that the return wasn't remorse and that they were going to either refuse the return (if they had a no return policy) or allow the return but the buyer had to pay for return shipping. The reps stressed that it was important that the seller had to communicate with the buyer within the return. Then after 3 business days, the seller could ask ebay to step in and the reps would read the information in the returns messages area and make a decision. Some sellers reported that they did win in those situations because it was obvious when the return was opened that it was a remorse return.

 

But in the last couple of days there have been reports of cs telling sellers something similar that you were told...they had to accept the return.  As far as I can tell the board reps haven't really clarified that yet so there are lots of confused and upset sellers right now.

 


There was rep confusion in the past about this and there is rep confusion now about this. This is why you need to have documented policy that can be referenced by all parties.

 

From a scan through the US boards yesterday I found the same as you, people reporting changes and reps confused about the process. The Spring Seller had changes regarding return requirements and the elimination of restocking fees, but it seems like they are pushing changes ahead of the announced dates and it applies to everyone. For all intents and purposes it doesn't matter what you offer, the net result is the same for everyone. I get it, all the returns product manager does is look at Amazon and copies what they are doing. All we ask is that they get off the Amazon site long enough to actually document their policy changes and communicate with staff.  It really shouldn't be that hard.

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Changes to returns process/procedures?

I agree eBay needs to have the rules documented so that everyone is on the same page.  Its getting a bit ridiculous how confusing some things have become. 

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Changes to returns process/procedures?

We should not have to call numerous times to get someone competitive on the other side .Its a waste of our time . I refund another scammer in full .I didnt get any respond from tyler or happy pigeon yet .

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Changes to returns process/procedures?

Lucky you 

I spoke with CS ,supervisor and manager non of them told me this . The only one that mentuioned this was another CS from USA .3 people vs one 

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Changes to returns process/procedures?


tyler@ebay wrote:
@hlmacdonwrote (truncated):

 

 

Howdy @hlmacdon -

 

We are working with the right teams to get clarification on this (for both .ca and .com). Though, typically, .ca policies mirror .com fairly universally so the answers may be the same

 

The information shared in mid-march was accurate at that time, and I'm glad to see that she was able to get the Help Pages updated to reflect remorse return policy correctly.

 

In a scenario where a buyer states that an item was not as described, but has demonstrated elsewhere that it is a remorse return we currently ask you to accept the return and work with CS on any other options available.

 

I don't have information on what the future holds for return policies and shipping costs, but I will keep you posted as I hear back!


Hello tyler@ebay

 

I had further conversations with a patient and helpful supervisor today who provided better insight into the current situation, what is driving this change, and what (little) leeway they have. What was explained to me is that the move to a 30 day no questions asked policy for sellers has been communicated by your marketing folks/returns team to appeals/returns supervisors/reps and we are in a testing phase ahead of official policy rollout in a future seller update.  There are several implications here:

 

  • Seller ability to charge restocking fees is going away for sellers not offering 30 day free returns. If a seller is willing to offer 30 day free returns they receive the carrot of being able to charge a restocking fee of up to 50%. 
  • For marketing driven reasons Ebay no longer wants to make any determination whether an item was as described or a buyers remorse, they just want to align with competitors offering 30 day returns. The desire is to remove themselves entirely from resolving any dispute in order to improve customer retention and avoid the charges associated with chargebacks.
  • The only discretion available to supervisors or reps is whether or not they will refund the return label cost. This is a temporary interim measure and not even guaranteed moving forward, and it sounded like it was likely to be removed in the future, presumably once a seller update rolls out. Any seller wanting to withhold the original shipping amount is SOL unless the item is physically altered or the buyer has otherwise done something to invalidate the money back guarantee.  You may want to coordinate with the returns team and specifically trinton@ebay@ and @brian.t@ebay as the information we are being told as sellers with respect to remorse returns and withholding of original shipping costs is incorrect as of current guidance. The guidance to call in and discuss options with reps is not something that should be recommended as we are getting different information depending on who we speak to and they have no leeway at the appeals level. Other departments need to have the same information as the appeals departments.
  • If a buyer opens a not as described return request which is in fact a remorse return the only thing we can do as sellers is tell the customer in the return request that the item was as described, is a remorse return and can be returned if the buyer elects to pay return shipping and that restocking fees may apply. The seller has no way to enforce this and the buyer is free to escalate, so essentially the only mechanism for the seller is to hope that the buyer agrees, which is going to be highly doubtful. Sellers are encouraged to report buyers abusing returns.

I wish to reiterate how poorly thought out and communicated this rolling policy change has been. As sellers we are getting completely contradictory information and the marketing people in charge of this decision have put line level staff in a bad position. This is the sort of thing that needs to be clearly rolled out in a seller update with clear and consistent documentation, not treated as yet another on the fly rolling marketing experiment.

 

From the call I had it was pretty clear that the marketing/returns people behind this decision have simply told the customer service/supervisors responsible for this area to just hard sell this to the seller as the future moving forward and report back any seller pushback so they can re-evaluate potential changes to this initiative.  I wouldn't call that testing, unless you are clearly hoping to skew the results. It is clear that little thought has been put into the impact of this change on sellers, specifically how it relates to international vs domestic transactions. 

 

In my opinion the way it is being handled as basically a marketing experiment to see if sellers will cave to this is and is entirely unprofessional and demonstrative of the level of disdain shown to sellers with this push to align Ebay with Amazon. I also want to make clear that I know this isn't a line level employee issue and it comes from above and I appreciate the efforts staff are making in communications to sellers. That being said the misinformation, misguidance, and hard sell on "industry standard" script (working in the industry I can tell you it isn't) is going to leave some wondering why they bother selling here and why they can't get a straight and consistent answer with having their call escalated, which frankly requires jumping through hoops as I had to ask multiple times.

 

This a net takeaway for sellers that increases our costs and the manner in which this is being handled is disingenuous at best. You can't squeeze margins to the bare minimum via product search changes, clawback discounts so ebay can provide coupons, and then find every little area where marketing costs can be dumped on sellers and have sellers left feeling like anything other than completely disrespected.  I appreciate any efforts you can make to push feedback along to the appropriate people and ensure that sellers are actually being given the truth. 

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Changes to returns process/procedures?

"'If a seller is willing to offer 30 day free returns they receive the carrot of being able to charge a restocking fee of up to 50%. " 

 

If I am forced to offer 30-day free returns at a 75 per cent loss on each Return that comes back on my dime, you can bet your last dollar that I will, in fact, charge a 50 per cent restocking fee on every order that is returned. 

 

I get very few Returns and even with those I've never charged the restocking fee of 20 per cent that was on the listing even when I could. But with 30-day free returns I will start getting remorse returns and I'm not suffering those losses so that ebay can present itself as the Generous Uncle while it gives away my stuff.

 

If this is true and real and imminent, this will backfire for ebay. 

 

Canadian sellers do not have the same cheap postage options as do their American counterparts. We cannot be held to the same standards and expectations. On a Free Return my $50 transaction will be $38 in postage there and back. Give the buyer $50 back and Canada Post $38 and pay ebay my monthly fees to exist here and I get what from the deal? A kick in the seat of my pants. No, not even the seat. A kick to the crotch!

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Also, when I did the Returns webinar, we were led to believe the only time a seller could not refund in full a Free Return for any reason was in cases of Buyer Fraud where the item did not come back in the same condition it was sent. 

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@momcqueen wrote:

 

If I am forced to offer 30-day free returns at a 75 per cent loss on each Return that comes back on my dime, you can bet your last dollar that I will, in fact, charge a 50 per cent restocking fee on every order that is returned. 

 

I get very few Returns and even with those I've never charged the restocking fee of 20 per cent that was on the listing even when I could. But with 30-day free returns I will start getting remorse returns and I'm not suffering those losses so that ebay can present itself as the Generous Uncle while it gives away my stuff.

 

If this is true and real and imminent, this will backfire for ebay. 

 

Canadian sellers do not have the same cheap postage options as do their American counterparts. We cannot be held to the same standards and expectations. On a Free Return my $50 transaction will be $38 in postage there and back. Give the buyer $50 back and Canada Post $38 and pay ebay my monthly fees to exist here and I get what from the deal? A kick in the seat of my pants. No, not even the seat. A kick to the crotch!


The spirt of the restocking fees is for an item condition/missing bits situation from what I gathered, so who knows how buyer appeals against that will turn out. The intent of the program is that the customer is always right regardless of what they do. Bad actors are now bein wholesale rewarded.

 

You'll note the money back guarantee clearly spells out as a seller you are responsible for any duty/tax charges resulting from a return. If it is any consolidation one of the points being passed up the chain that a I brought up was specifically how "free" international returns would be handled and how well thought out that process was from a label/declaration point of view with the low de minimums exemptions for return items not declared properly. Any free 30 day international return is basically a net loss for a sell at this point and gives the customer free rein to price shop the globe for 30 days after receipt plus the time in between order and delivery. I've already seen international sellers in other markets move to the free 30 day returns model, so presumably this is rolling out across the company. Whatever return policy you have is irrelevant at this point.

 

You hit the nail on the head with the Generous Uncle comment. This is a marketing expense for Ebay to attract buyers and we are getting shafted by having that cost transferred to us. It ignorant to assume that the return policies associated with a multibillion dollar tax cheat or high margin product segments should uniformly apply to all merchandise sold online. Try getting anyone at Ebay to even mention Amazon and you get bobbing and weaving followed by the tacit admission that this is exactly what it is. This is something that should have been pushed out by some premium branding/segment of Ebay, not uniformly applied to every seller small and large. 

 

Congratulations Ebay, you are now the Uber of ecommerce.

 

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Changes to returns process/procedures?


@momcqueen wrote:

Also, when I did the Returns webinar, we were led to believe the only time a seller could not refund in full a Free Return for any reason was in cases of Buyer Fraud where the item did not come back in the same condition it was sent. 


Violation of money back guarantee (ie refused shipment) or physically altered items. That is it. 

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Changes to returns process/procedures?

It's a rat's nest, is what it is. I cannot begin to understand the changes to come, and I'm motivated to do so. If ebay makes its Returns procedures so complicated that even long-term sellers' eyes glaze over halfway through the terms and conditions, a rookie seller is lost and tossed under the bus. This also seems like a great way to alienate anyone new to selling here. 

 

I'm getting a bit tired of having to hoist a protest sign every time ebay rolls out new changes. I'd like to stick to selling stuff. I'm WAY behind in adding new inventory, like shamefully behind schedule. I'm sitting on product that was new-to-market a year ago. 

 

It's difficult to concentrate on the task of selling when I feel like I have to continually watch my back. Grouped listings ignore that I exist, we're being strong-armed into offering free returns. Next will be mandatory pricing. Haw. 

 

What formal process is in place to focus-group these changes with the sellers affected? Do we know? 

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Changes to returns process/procedures?

At the discretion of the rep the seller can be refunded both the return shipping cost as well as the original postage

 

These are the clerks in the outsourced (to some backwater called Utah)  call centres?

Not even eBay's direct employees?

I've had a good experience recently with them recently, but really, eBay needs to have their own employees handling this sort of problem.

Ones who are well trained in the vagarities and random changes in eBay policy.

The turnover in call centres is huge, no matter how helpful the clerks try to be.

Finding a trained and up to date clerk is difficult.

 

If our money is being bandied about, these decisions should be made by eBay employees responsible to eBay and getting paycheques directly from eBay.

 

Preferably situated in Canada and bilingual in English and French.

 

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Changes to returns process/procedures?


@momcqueen wrote:

It's a rat's nest, is what it is. I cannot begin to understand the changes to come, and I'm motivated to do so. If ebay makes its Returns procedures so complicated that even long-term sellers' eyes glaze over halfway through the terms and conditions, a rookie seller is lost and tossed under the bus. This also seems like a great way to alienate anyone new to selling here. 

 

It's difficult to concentrate on the task of selling when I feel like I have to continually watch my back. Grouped listings ignore that I exist, we're being strong-armed into offering free returns. Next will be mandatory pricing. Haw. 

 

 


That is just it. When you call in there is almost a scripted pitch where it is "put yourselves in the shoes of the buyer and tell me what you would expect" and this is what the industry expects that just raises the hackles. Maybe I am just you know...an adult and I don't expect someone else to pay for when I screw up.

 

The pitch isn't even that you would be refunded the return label costs, just that ebay is making this change to attract buyers and that will bring you more business and you should go along with it! That sort of rah rah might mislead the new seller, but not anyone who has any level of experience here. It isn't until you start asking questions that you get to the bottom of it.


Mandatory pricing is more or less a feature of the product based search. While many categories or products won't be effected in the short term, anything with a MPN/UPC code will be in the future. When is the last time you bought something off an Amazon seller who didn't have the default buy position? I honestly struggle to see where any value add a seller provides plays a roll moving forward with this transition. I'd much rather spend my time on that then implementing whatever unsustainable policy directive gets pushed down.

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