Dishonest Buyers on the rise???? Lets share our stories...

[amandabalmain]

Are Dishonest buyers on the rise this month? Or is this just a crazy fluke????

Until this month, I had never had an issue with Buyers claiming that they 'didn't receive their items... and I send out quite a few packages through 'letter mail' some with & some with-out tracking every month - depending on the value of the item(s)... I hadn't thought that 'this' was an issue, that is, until I got TWO 'unreceived' this month! 

One of the buyers was requesting a refund over a week before the estimated time of delivery! In one of the emails that the buyer sent me says (Cut & Pasted)  In my opinion, this buyer had NO INTENTIONS TO EVER PAY FOR THEIR ORDER!!! I spoke with multiple eBay reps (we reviewed the emails & pics) and when all was said and done, I was put in the position that I had to give the refund - to save myself a negative strike.This buyer had requested a refund 3 times... two of which were before the estimated time of delivery. I quoted eBay reps the policy, and reviewed buyer fraud... all of which this dishonest buyer was red flagged for... eBay's special team that investigates bad buyers are looking into this one and claim they will let me know the outcome. So the buyer gets investigated and I am out my item, time and money on this one.

The second one was a couple of days shy of the '30' day mark of the estimated time of delivery - I left positive feedback & they requested a refund for 'undelivered item' with-in a few minutes! - I gave the refund, and went back and added a note under the feedback that I had left them - adding a note to inform other sellers that this buyer claimed 'undelivered' after receiving my positive feedback & that they had been refunded. -- I hope that my note will help other sellers when they review how they deal with this buyer in the future.

Both buyers: BLOCKED 

[momcqueen]

Now that I have switched form Small Packets Airmail to Tracked Packets Airmail, I have no stories to share. Tracking fixes most Items Not Received (INR) claims. (I won't say 'eliminates' them because there is a way for every will if the member in question is dishonest.) I have been more fortunate with domestic lettermail and INRs have not yet become an issue. Only about 20 per cent of what I sell fits into domestic lettermail or light packets. That 80 per cent sent tracked and insured lets me sleep better at night so for that alone it is worth it.

[momcqueen]

I will however note that when you experience a 'rash' of INRs, don't immediately blame the buyers. Look to the commonalities such as a lost or delayed shipment and report those to Canada Post here: https://www.canadapost.ca/web/en/kb/details.page?article=how_to_resolve_undel&cattype=kb&cat=receivi...

[amandabalmain]

Ok -- my post had to be edited, because I posted a cut and past from an email... 😞 At the time of posting I didn't realize that that action violated eBay's policy (which I am forever reviewing)... The missing part after the 'cut and paste' reviewed how the buyer claimed that items go missing if there is no Tracking' information. -- paraphrased.

[momcqueen]

If you give that buyer full benefit of the doubt -- and I'm not necessarily saying this is deserved in this case specifically -- it may really be their experience that 'untracked' means 'not mailed'. Before you came along, he or she may have borne the brunt of some shady dealings from sellers overseas, for example, who sent items without tracking which were never really sent. That happens too. We see it all the time here on the Discussion Board. Where there are buyers abusing the INR system there are also sellers doing it too, absolutely, which ruins it for every honest seller that comes along afterwards because that buyer then trust no one at all. 

[cumos55]

Things to consider....based on experiences as a seller....

(1) What one sells can be an important factor  dictating the type of buyer.... the character of the buyer... and what the buyer might plan to do...

(2) How much does the buyer know about eBay rules.....  A seller who buys  knows how to "beat" the system....

(3) Not too sure... but...  Is there a difference if the claim was made through Paypal  or eBay? Paypal protection appears to  work  for the seller....

(4)  A buyer's previous experience with other sellers ... the good, the bad, the ugly.... influences what a buyer may choose to do

(5) and... one last thought.... the lower the price of an item... the greater the possibility of a problem

[femmefan1946]

cumos55 - I very much agree with your #1-- the category in which one sells is very much a factor in whether you get claims.

In this case the OP sells inexpensive coins.

I wonder if the missing items are silver coins close to their bullion value.

Personally, and it may not work for everyone, since I rarely use tracking on my small and inexpensive items, I prefer to leave FB when I ship as an indication that the purchase is on its way. (This was also as an encouragement for buyers to leave FB when it counted.)

I notice OP got poor advice from the CS rep, who told her that the problem would be bad feedback. Of course, while FB nowadays is a public relations problem, it no longer affects our selling accounts with eBay. The real problem would be having the  scammer unhappy buyer open an Item Not Received Dispute which will affect selling accounts.

To some extent, any of us selling inexpensive items and using LetterPost/LightPacket for shipping, have to build in a small premium for Cookie Jar Insurance, to cover the occasional real loss and somewhat more prevalent scam.

[tobyshitzu]

Can see the one, a $2.50 item.  The odds that this is a dishonest buyer over that are pretty much zero

[femmefan1946]

toby**bleep**zu - Ever attended a coin show? It's not at all improbable. 

Coin 'collectors' are the reason we had a stamp store and not a coin and stamp store.

(The quotes are on purpose. Numismatists are the real hobbyists. The 'gold bugs' not so much. )

[ricarmic]

This has been and continues to be a crazy day in ricarmicland, but I wanted to quickly add:

I have also had very weird similar situations, where I go many months with no claims and lo and behold when I fire up the old laptop at 6 AM there are two INR's in my mailbox from different countries, mailed on different days etc. 

Just a dose of bad luck, but this has happened at least a couple times and I get maybe 5 to 10 INRs a year......

As an extra  note, just as we seem to often distrust what a buyer says as borderline criminal, many buyers probably have experiences with criminalish sellers so they are just as distrusting of us too..... that buyer could have actually had a number of MIA non tracked items and distrusts anyone sending non-tracked.... or they're a scammer, who's to know.....that's what blockings for, my mantra is "burn me once shame on you, burn me twice, shame on me"

[sylviebee]

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@mjwl2006 wrote:

I will however note that when you experience a 'rash' of INRs, don't immediately blame the buyers. 

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Currently I have an item which I bought and hasn't arrived........ or 3 actually from the same seller.

The seller is clearly pointing the finger at me.

I waited just over 30 days before filing a case.

I'd also like to point out that about an hour ago I had a delivery from the PO (letter mail) and none of the items are mine.  In fact, they are from two different addresses.

In my area we suddenly have all new delivery people and they're really making a mess.

I'm so sad that my item(s) seem to be lost as I'd so much rather have my purchases than a refund.

Anyway, the point is, it'a also very uncomfortable for buyers who have to file cases when they can pretty much expect that sellers aren't going to believe them.

Very uncomfortable.

[Anonymous]

It is one of the reasons I switched to mail service with tracking number all over the world.  Since then (2 years ago), I no longer received "I didn't get my item" and "where is my item?".  Knock on wood.

[esclyons]

yes they are on the rise, i had 3 in the last 2 months..after going almost a year with 1..definitely something going on..  and i think there is more to it than a straight ..i didn;t get it.. as sellers we always dreaded the INR email..   now i have people just messaging me they haven't received their item..  so if they don't open an item not received case, and as a seller we do a straight refund, there is no way of anyone knowing the buyers are doing this over and over again..??

So as a seller should we be telling buyers to open a case against us,if they haven't received their item. and face a negative for being a jerk.??

What to do, what to do!!!!

[momcqueen]

Report. If you refund for INR, also call and report.

[ricarmic]

If they are of use, here is a link that has my base form letters I use, they often help.....

http://community.ebay.ca/t5/Seller-Central/I-haven-t-received-my-item-or-Item-not-received-case-the-...

[lucitabby]

Yes, those are good Ric.  I also have a form letter which I find works quite well.  I have posted it before and people have found it useful.  Feel free to use it.

Thank you for letting me know that the _______ has not arrived yet.   It should be there by __________ .

If it has not arrived by that date, please let me know.  I will then issue a refund and notify Canada Post to start an investigation.  They are excellent at investigating lost parcels, fraud, etc. - I will also need your telephone number to give them as they will want to contact you.

Thank you again for bringing this to my attention.

Regards,

[lucitabby]

ps  -  after sending the above, I either never hear from them again or after a few days I get an email saying the item arrived.

[femmefan1946]

I strongly believe that a lot of Item Not Received complaints are more a matter of impatience (and delays) than scams.

When I get one of these I usually ask that the customer wait to the end of the week, and give them the date and service I used. (I don't often track, because my stuff is cheap and.... Cookie Jar Insurance.)

Most of the time the shipment arrives before the end of the week.

USPS is very fast domestically, and I think that our American customers are a little spoiled by that.

Politely.--- Captain Malcolm Reynolds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZ3k2xA1Wcw

[sylviebee]

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@femmefan1946 wrote:

I strongly believe that a lot of Item Not Received complaints are more a matter of impatience (and delays) than scams.

____________________________________________

I completely agree with that.

In the case I described above I contacted the seller a few weeks in because he may have had a tracking number.

His response was nasty, aggressive, and accusatory.

I waited another week or so before contacting him again asking if he had any further information.

His response was to redouble his original accusations.

I would have waited another week or two to file a case but I opened the case the following day.

If I do get a refund and the item shows up a few weeks later, I'll be much less inclined to re-pay this seller than I would have been had he responded politely.

amandabalmain, you said you added a note to your buyer's PFB.  (Was it removed?)  That might not have been in your best interest.

[amandabalmain]

I did add a followup note (which can be viewed if you look at my feedback left for others; its on pg 2 now) -- nothing nasty, just a little informative note that may help other sellers....

Follow-up by amandabalmain (04-Nov-16 21:01):

After leaving positive feedback they opened a 'not received' & were refunded

At least this way other sellers and eBay team reps can easily see that 'this' has occurred. If it was an innocent 'Canada Post' occurrence, then this buyer shouldn't have an issue... but if this is a regular for this buyer, at least there will be a record.