Ebay's Money Back Guarantee + US Postal issues = Free merchandise for buyers.

[justbrostrading]

Hi there! We were recently forced to refund a buyer for an item still in transit (which they received 2 days later), while we were trying to smooth things over with the buyer. Ebay's suggestion (after having denied our request for reimbursment), was to message and invoice the buyer (which they've continually ignored).

We now have half a dozen other similar cases in the making. Does anyone have any experience with this situation? We'd like to avoid losing more money AND the hundreds of dollars worth of merchandise presently lost in that mess of a sorting facility in Chicago.

Thanks! 

[lotzofuniquegoodies]

@itolduandso 

Clarification: Inflate tracking = Meant Inflate handling time.

-Lotz

[richardcm]

My understanding of having an inflated handling time of 3 or five days or whatever, is that once you ship and it is marked shipped by purchase of shipping label or manually marked as shipped, then the handling time padding is gone and the buyer sees the shipping time only. And eBay can change that estimate. Totally out of a sellers control.

Correct me if I am wrong. I understood this from reading topics and posts here.

[hlmacdon]

Every shipping "service" you can select on ebay has an associated minimum and maximum "days" value, ie 2 to 5 business days. These are added to the paid on date, along with seller handling time and any manual adjustments from ebay to set the minimum and maximum estimated delivery dates. Buyers can open INR's the day after the maximum estimated delivery date. 

By changing the service or your handling time you thus change the maximum estimated delivery date and have some control over when INR cases can be opened. Note in the past I've seen bugs where the handling time was being ignored in the calculation (usually to do with seller promotional shipping rules) and I have also seen inconsistencies in how ebay makes their own "fudge factor" adjustments. They are incentivized to show a faster delivery estimate to the buyer and likely base their fudge factor on their historical shipping data for given zip/postal pairings. 

As a seller you have to weigh trying to cover yourself while trying not to put off potential customers to the point where you are getting no orders. Overpromising when you know there are problems leads to more INR claims or chargebacks on the other hand. It's a shame ebay doesn't allow for a seller to enter their own shipping method with a min and max value. Something like "Seller's Shipping Method" - x to y business days as that would provide greater flexibility as sometimes a longer handling time can be interpreted as laziness. 

There is some hope as stuff is still moving out of the ISC in Chicago. One of mine that was stuck there for a few weeks just scanned as arriving at another facility on the other side of the country.  I've seen this a few times with international coming in to the ISC facilities recently where there seems to be missing tracking scans showing movement out of customs and between facility movements. 

[itolduandso]

That 2-5 days handling time window may resolve only a few number of cases when the buyer was expecting (and paying) or a fast(er) shipping service (say. 3-4 business days).  I am not worried about this, this is not Amazon, it's Ebay. The handling time doesn't give me sound sleep. It's SNAFU. That added handling time will almost sure have some negative impact your rank in search results AFAIK. It's better than getting into INR situation but in my experience, for most scenarios, buyers have to learned to accommodate a few days plus minus delivery times. What is of a bigger concern are those 10+ days missing packages because these are obviously not just delays in those cases the 2-5 days handling time wouldn't save you. 

If a buyer wants to buy something and expect sharp delivery on time, I would just tell the buyer right away I can't promise the delivery times due to postal service issues. I rather the buyer doesn't buy from me.

[fergua3]

ok, so the day after i refund my buyer $150US for the package that has been stuck at ISC Chicago for 34 days, the package moves.  A new scan today.  Now, there is a problem, mind you.  The package was to be delivered to an address in the Chicago suburbs, but is now in Stamford CT over 800 miles away.  However, it will probably be delivered within the 30 days limit set by Ebay's new policy.

So i really need to find out how i open an appeal of an INR when the package is delivered after a voluntary refund is made.  I don't trust calling CS as i bet most of the reps don't know about this new policy change from Ebay.  Social media is not an option as i dont' have a Facebook or Twitter account (or any other social media accounts).   So how do i appeal?  There must be some way of appealing on Ebay's site.

[marnotom!]

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@itolduandso wrote:

I was told by some ebay CS (some are however conflicting) that selling on ebay.COM as Canadian buyer will show the Canadian delivery options, however, the delivery times will be based on the USA postal service standards for delivery times and if selling on ebay.CA as Canadia [seller] the Canadian delivery options will show the Canadian postal service standards for delivery times.

Can somebody verify if this is true?  Every time I speak with a different CS I get a different answer.

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I don't think anybody's answered this question yet, so I'll say that it's not true.  The .com site only has US shipping options.  Canadian sellers have to select one of the international "flat rate" options if they're listing on the .com site.  This is where it gets fun, because you have to then pretend you're in the US when you calculate the shipping price.  In other words, a sale to Canada is regarded as an "international" sale and a sale to the US is regarded as a "domestic" sale.

[marnotom!]

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@fergua3 wrote:

There must be some way of appealing on Ebay's site.

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Did you have a look at the page I linked to in message 15?

[lotzofuniquegoodies]

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@richardcm wrote:
My understanding of having an inflated handling time of 3 or five days or whatever, is that once you ship and it is marked shipped by purchase of shipping label or manually marked as shipped, then the handling time padding is gone and the buyer sees the shipping time only. And eBay can change that estimate. Totally out of a sellers control.

Correct me if I am wrong. I understood this from reading topics and posts here.

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@hlmacdon 

That's what I've heard reported on both dot ca and dot com. If an item is shipped with tracked service the meter starts running as soon as the item is scanned. If you send using untracked it will buy you some time but if there has been no delivery in majority of cases the case will be closed very quickly. What might be helpful when a buyer and seller are in agreement about waiting longer the buyer should have the option to maybe add time to the request? That would definitely be an improvement to what is currently in place.

-Lotz

[pjcdn2005]

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@lotzofuniquegoodies wrote:

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@richardcm wrote:
My understanding of having an inflated handling time of 3 or five days or whatever, is that once you ship and it is marked shipped by purchase of shipping label or manually marked as shipped, then the handling time padding is gone and the buyer sees the shipping time only. And eBay can change that estimate. Totally out of a sellers control.

Correct me if I am wrong. I understood this from reading topics and posts here.

---

That's what I've heard reported on both dot ca and dot com. If an item is shipped with tracked service the meter starts running as soon as the item is scanned. If you send using untracked it will buy you some time but if there has been no delivery in majority of cases the case will be closed very quickly. What might be helpful when a buyer and seller are in agreement about waiting longer the buyer should have the option to maybe add time to the request? That would definitely be an improvement to what is currently in place.

-Lotz

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@richardcmisn't saying that the clock starts when the item gets scanned, he is saying that it may start when the item is marked as shipped or when ebay sees that a label has been printed.   Years ago ebay would count the item as being mailed when it was scanned but that has changed. He could be right but I don't understand it as working that way.

The way that I understand is that the eta at least in the US...is based on the seller's average mailing time.  So if there handling time is 5 days but they almost always mail the item in 1 day, the estimated handling time on their listings will show the eta with a 1 day handling time.   I'm not sure if they do the same  to non US sellers.

 

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[hlmacdon]

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@lotzofuniquegoodies wrote:

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@richardcm wrote:
My understanding of having an inflated handling time of 3 or five days or whatever, is that once you ship and it is marked shipped by purchase of shipping label or manually marked as shipped, then the handling time padding is gone and the buyer sees the shipping time only. And eBay can change that estimate. Totally out of a sellers control.

Correct me if I am wrong. I understood this from reading topics and posts here.

---

@hlmacdon 

That's what I've heard reported on both dot ca and dot com. If an item is shipped with tracked service the meter starts running as soon as the item is scanned. 

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You can verify Maximum ETA dates for any transaction by choosing the download report from within the order section of the seller hub. The resulting csv file will show you all the date metrics ebay uses. If you want to run a test, download the report covering a particular transaction on the day it is sold, then do so again if you have an example where the label scan for the package is on a subsequent day. See if the two still match or if it indeed updates. I didn't notice any change when I was tracking the bug with promotional shipping offers, just a bug with the Ship By date not factoring in the handling time.

[hlmacdon]

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@pjcdn2005 wrote:

The way that I understand is that the eta at least in the US...is based on the seller's average mailing time.  So if there handling time is 5 days but they almost always mail the item in 1 day, the estimated handling time on their listings will show the eta with a 1 day handling time.   I'm not sure if they do the same  to non US sellers. 

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There is indeed a "feature" where they override you handling time in presented deliver estimates if you consistently (no idea how the gauge that in terms of the tipping point) ship faster than your stated handling time. I only sell on .com via tracked services and have noticed examples of wonky delivery estimates that haven't made much sense, but ebay has beenmaking all kinds of adjustments to those throughout COVID era shipping. Haven't dealt with an INR request in ages but I recall ebay was offering protections in light of the delays when things were at their worst delay-wise. 

[fergua3]

i did......the poster contacted Ebay through social media to file the appeal..

[reallynicestamps]

@fergua3 

The package was to be delivered to an address in the Chicago suburbs, but is now in Stamford CT over 800 miles away.

Probably a function of spoke and hub delivery.

One possibility is that a few trailers filled with  "stuck" overdue mail has been hauled to the nearest terminal with a little excess capacity.

If that's in CT, fine. It's moving.

It's never a good idea for a buyer to watch a package in transit, in part because most "tracking " is actually Confirmation of Delivery, and any notes between acceptance and delivery are catch as catch can.  And sellers will be happiest if they don't watch progress unless a customer complains (as in this case).

So how do i appeal? There must be some way of appealing on Ebay's site.

I've had some success with the online chat- as opposed to the telephones. The reps are at least able to re-read my responses if I am unclear, and of course vice versa.

It is not fast.

Help& Contact -> Contact Us -> ask for the email chat service. Be prepared to wait at busy times, and try to call when the Utah workers are online.

[marnotom!]

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@fergua3 wrote:

......the poster contacted Ebay through social media to file the appeal..

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That's one way of doing it.  The page I posted a link to has a different way of doing it.

[fergua3]

ah ok, thanks.  I didn't realize that was something i hadn't seen yet.

[hlmacdon]

A follow up to one my packages that was stuck there and showed subsequent movement. It was divereted through the San Fransico international center for clearance and is now on the way for final delivery after nine tracking scans. That is a new one.

[tyler@ebay]

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@reallynicestamps wrote:

tyler@ebay 

@justbrostrading

I've spoken to multiple CS reps who have confirmed that if we now VOLUNTARILY refund the buyer after a case is opened and the item shows as delivered within 30 days, we can submit an appeal for reimbursment from Ebay. However, there is no option for appeal if the case gets to the point where the buyer can "ask Ebay to step in" and Ebay automatically applies a refund.

Tyler, could you confirm this and point to the link that helps open this appeal mechanism.

I can see the thinking, eBay wants the buyer experience to be friendly, and since the shipment in these cases really has not been delivered, the seller is being encouraged to cooperate.

The ability to get the refund returned when the fault is not the seller's (although the responsibility is) would be a great comfort to sellers trying to promote good customer relations.

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Hi @reallynicestamps - there is not a way to open an appeal through the website on a transaction that was voluntarily refunded. That would need to be addressed by CS - so you'd want to have them call you back or work with the social media team so they can manually review it. 

For a Not Received request that was escalated and initially found in the buyer's favor you have 30 days from that decision to appeal. You can do that right from the Seller Hub (link here), or the resolution centre (though that is going to be retired sooner than later)

Appeals like this in general are considered courtesies, so I can't guarantee that it would be offered every time, but if there is tracking that (eventually) shows up as delivered within the 30 days of the request being initially closed/decided it's something to consider doing!

[tyler@ebay]

I've spoken to multiple CS reps who have confirmed that if we now VOLUNTARILY refund the buyer after a case is opened and the item shows as delivered within 30 days, we can submit an appeal for reimbursment from Ebay. However, there is no option for appeal if the case gets to the point where the buyer can "ask Ebay to step in" and Ebay automatically applies a refund.

Tyler, could you confirm this and point to the link that helps open this appeal mechanism.

I can see the thinking, eBay wants the buyer experience to be friendly, and since the shipment in these cases really has not been delivered, the seller is being encouraged to cooperate.

The ability to get the refund returned when the fault is not the seller's (although the responsibility is) would be a great comfort to sellers trying to promote good customer relations.